Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[ScarlettScarpetta]

If it was indeed a garrote, it would have been brought to the crime scene and made before hand. This wAs nothing more than a stick used to gain leverage. Not some sophisticated sexual device.

No. That is not necessarily true. It was not a sexual device it was a murder device.

I don't think the intruider intended to kill her, I really do believe he intended to just take her and then something went awry and so he grabbed things from the house to kill her.. Something happened to this sicko and he killed her instead of taking her. Maybe she struggled and smashed her head and he figured that there was no point in taking her then..

I don't know. But I see more that points to an intruder than a family member.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

The ligatures were suspension/posing devices. The reason the neck ligature was so tight was it had to support the torso. The reason the wrist ligatures were not so tight was they only had to support the arms.

 

[BOESP]

Excellent points!

When you look at the rope around her neck and imbedded in it and compare it to the loosely tied wrists and the fact that she was found wrapped in her favorite blanket. That shows me a very conflicted killer. One that shows concern and a desire to undo what's been done.

Iirc (and I know you all get tired of me writing that) the body had the ligature "noose" in the back as well as the paintbrush handle device, suggesting that it had been pulled from behind. Also, iirc, there was bruising on JonBenet (see autopsy and photos) suggesting she may have been held down while the ligature was constricted.

So, what would this mean? First, whoever pulled the ligature did it from behind. That might suggest they did not want to look JonBenet in the face or maybe it meant a posterior position was easiest. It could suggest the doggy leash scenario some have discussed.

Secondly, the triangular abrasion/bruise found in front may suggest that there were two events involved in the strangulation.

Imo, the ligature strangulation either was to insure JonBenet was not suffering (done to end it all quickly) or it was to disguise an earlier event that resembled ligature strangulation or used the rope for some other purpose (such as restraints to hold JonBenet down or up for corporal cleansing).

The above is just quick analyzing from a Monday morning quarterback.

 

[Linda7NJ]

No. That is not necessarily true. It was not a sexual device it was a murder device.

I don't think the intruider intended to kill her, I really do believe he intended to just take her and then something went awry and so he grabbed things from the house to kill her.. Something happened to this sicko and he killed her instead of taking her. Maybe she struggled and smashed her head and he figured that there was no point in taking her then..

I don't know. But I see more that points to an intruder than a family member.

Why not just leave her? Why not just garrote her then leave? Why place the duct tape on her mouth and loosely tie her wrists? Why the blanket?

What about the tea and pineapple?

What about all of the other things that point to Ramsey involvement? I won't begin to list them as the list is far too long and I would hope everyone is well aware.

You need to fit all of the known evidence. All of it points at a Ramsey

 

[Linda7NJ]

The ligatures were suspension/posing devices. The reason the neck ligature was so tight was it had to support the torso. The reason the wrist ligatures were not so tight was they only had to support the arms.

What was she suspended from?

The marks on her neck do not support that she was hung. Iirc

 

[Venom]

One thing to add, it could be that the strangulation was not to "cover up" the head bash, but to quickly cause death. :moo:

 

[Linda7NJ]

Iirc (and I know you all get tired of me writing that) the body had the ligature "noose" in the back as well as the paintbrush handle device, suggesting that it had been pulled from behind. Also, iirc, there was bruising on JonBenet (see autopsy and photos) suggesting she may have been held down while the ligature was constricted.

So, what would this mean? First, whoever pulled the ligature did it from behind. That might suggest they did not want to look JonBenet in the face or maybe it meant a posterior position was easiest. It could suggest the doggy leash scenario some have discussed.

Secondly, the triangular abrasion/bruise found in front may suggest that there were two events involved in the strangulation.

Imo, the ligature strangulation either was to insure JonBenet was not suffering (done to end it all quickly) or it was to disguise an earlier event that resembled ligature strangulation or used the rope for some other purpose (such as restraints to hold JonBenet down or up for corporal cleansing).

The above is just quick analyzing from a Monday morning quarterback.

That triangular bruise had me scratching my head for a long time.
Until I seen an identical mark on a child who had their shirt grabbed and twisted in a fist up close to the throat. I think, at some point that evening the same thing happened to a very much alive and upright JonBenet.

 

[Linda7NJ]

No. That is not necessarily true. It was not a sexual device it was a murder device.

I don't think the intruider intended to kill her, I really do believe he intended to just take her and then something went awry and so he grabbed things from the house to kill her.. Something happened to this sicko and he killed her instead of taking her. Maybe she struggled and smashed her head and he figured that there was no point in taking her then..

I don't know. But I see more that points to an intruder than a family member.

How about you start an actual list and we can all total up and see which column has more supporting evidence. That could be fun

 

[Agatha_C]

Im not sure about that.. I can think of children that are gone and never are found and it is suspected it was the family...

Still even at or near is not in the house and call the police for them to find her. That just does not make any sense.

Scarlett, If you read my post again you will see that I used the word "often" not "always"

I also dont think the Rs planned on LE staying at the house. I believe they thought that LE would be out looking for their kidnapped daughter. When (after hours of waiting) they realized no one was going to leave they had no choice but to find her themselves. Just my opinion not a fact.

Someone worked really hard to make the police believe that JBR had already been removed from the house. Two stagings took place here... 1) The Kidnapping... 2) The brutal sicko pedophile murder... Two people were covering butt that day. Whose butt is the only question I cant seem to find an answer to and Lord knows that I have tried on every single theory....

 

[questfortrue]

No one knows the R's personally on here. At least I think not :dunno:
IMO there is no way to know their full histories, including how they were as children themselves, and what goes on in their heads. There's just no way to know someone fully, much less someone you've (not a personal "you" directed at anyone) never met.
:moo:

Excellent reminder, Venom. While we all can consider psychological scenarios, based on reading, without knowing the R’s or their friends personally, or even seeing all the evidence, it seems like evaluating their personalities devolves to speculation. (I’ve done it too.) Basically, any of the molestation theories have merit but speculation is really the case when it comes to the sexual abuse, and even Kolar was subject to having a hypothetical theory about BR and SBP. Perhaps there are posters here who knew the R’s friends, or had even met the R’s, IDK. But one thing I’ve gathered (also from reading) is whoever perpetrated the abuse lived (and contributed to) an environment of dysfunction of some kind. Perhaps true psychiatric problems, as some have wondered/decided, “loose boundaries,” perhaps affairs or sexual issues between the parents. As far as BR and SBP, it certainly could be, but it’s been brought out by experts (Aranji) this disorder also does not spring up in a vacuum, or its (SBP’s) appearance arises within certain kinds of environments.

In evaluation of PR, one would think she would not have taken her daughter to Dr. B so frequently, unless it is some kind of case for MHBP. The other thing one can think about is that JB’s bedwetting was a big problem in the family. Add that to the fact of the Paugh’s giving PR books such as “The Hurried Child” to read, and one can at least consider PR was making attempts to get on top of the problem, including sending both BR and PR to counselors (very risky if she was actually perpetrating the abuse). But I also understand that PR perpetrating the abuse cannot be discounted. moo

 

[Agatha_C]

Scarlett, If you read my post again you will see that I used the word "often" not "always"

I also dont think the Rs planned on LE staying at the house. I believe they thought that LE would be out looking for their kidnapped daughter. When (after hours of waiting) they realized no one was going to leave they had no choice but to find her themselves. Just my opinion not a fact.

Someone worked really hard to make the police believe that JBR had already been removed from the house. Two stagings took place here... 1) The Kidnapping... 2) The brutal sicko pedophile murder... Two people were covering butt that day. Whose butt is the only question I cant seem to find an answer to and Lord knows that I have tried on every single theory....

I forgot to add..LOL! They had to call the police! How else could they explain to friends and family that Jonbenet was gone forever... How were they to show up in Charlevoix without her? Where did JBR go???

 

[SapphireSteel]

Scarlett, I am confused. First you say this -

Just another opinion.. There is no rule when it comes to murdering crazy people. .

Then you say this -

No.No one covers up a head bash with a garroting.. No one.. Not ever. This is a sick twisted someone who broke into this house and had horrible plans.

Kind of a contradictory?

:dunno:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Scarlett, I am confused. First you say this -



Then you say this -



Kind of a contradictory?

:dunno:

No it isn't.. The first quote is about an unknown murderer.. The second is about parents.. And parents don't garrote to cover up beating them to death.

 

[2 percent]

No it isn't.. The first quote is about an unknown murderer.. The second is about parents.. And parents don't garrote to cover up beating them to death.

Who was beaten to death?
The garrotte could have been used to account for the evidence of sexual assault.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Who was beaten to death?
The garrotte could have been used to account for the evidence of sexual assault.

That head wound was huge. She was bashed in the head with something.. A beating can be one good blow .. or maybe it was more than one to crack her skull that much.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Who was beaten to death?
The garrotte could have been used to account for the evidence of sexual assault.

The garrotte could have been used before as part of the ritual.

I just had a scary thought..IIRC some of the photos I have seen of JB, she has something covering her neck...:scared:

ETA: just went and looked, there is indeed a few scarves on outfits that didn't need scarves, turtle necks, even on her costumes, the Vegas showgirl for example.

:sick:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The garrotte could have been used before as part of the ritual.

I just had a scary thought..IIRC some of the photos I have seen of JB, she has something covering her neck...:scared:

ETA: just went and looked, there is indeed a few scarves on outfits that didn't need scarves, turtle necks, even on her costumes, the Vegas showgirl for example.

:sick:

I am going to assume that the costumes she got into when she arrived at the event and so she would not have been wearing a scarf all the time.

 

[Venom]

No it isn't.. The first quote is about an unknown murderer.. The second is about parents.. And parents don't garrote to cover up beating them to death.

Let's just say that it was an accidental hit on the head, or someone lost their temper and lost control. In the aftermath, they would sure be in a panic; perhaps they did think of trying to cover it up with strangulation? I'm sure if it wasn't planned they wouldn't be thinking too clearly. Not exactly likely, but still not out of the realm of happening.
JMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Let's just say that it was an accidental hit on the head, or someone lost their temper and lost control. In the aftermath, they would sure be in a panic; perhaps they did think of trying to cover it up with strangulation? I'm sure if it wasn't planned they wouldn't be thinking too clearly. Not exactly likely, but still not out of the realm of happening.
JMO

I have to say I can not think of any scenario where they think garroting her will be a better cover. If she bashed her head they could have left her at the bottom of the stairs, Next to a pipe, something... But the garroting just changes the whole thing.

 

[Venom]

I have to say I can not think of any scenario where they think garroting her will be a better cover. If she bashed her head they could have left her at the bottom of the stairs, Next to a pipe, something... But the garroting just changes the whole thing.

I know, but think they'd must likely be in a panic and not thinking straight. Jmo, it's not entirely impossible.