KY - Third Graders Handcuffed in School, Covington, Federal Lawsuit Filed Aug 2015

[JeannaT]

I watched the video, and you can't really see what's going on because the cop's body is in the way. It does open with "you don't get to swing at me like that", the cop says to the child.

Indeed. That may be the best lesson this child can learn, early. Don't imagine you can punch a cop.

The video is very short, but the cop doesn't seem at all like he's lost his temper or is a bully. This is a kid who thinks he can punch a cop.

My guess is, he probably also thinks he can punch or kick a teacher, but they just kind of have to jump out of the way and can't restrain a child.

 

[Nana]

I watched the video, and you can't really see what's going on because the cop's body is in the way. It does open with "you don't get to swing at me like that", the cop says to the child.

Indeed. That may be the best lesson this child can learn, early. Don't imagine you can punch a cop.

The video is very short, but the cop doesn't seem at all like he's lost his temper or is a bully. This is a kid who thinks he can punch a cop.

My guess is, he probably also thinks he can punch or kick a teacher, but they just kind of have to jump out of the way and can't restrain a child.

As everyone knows I will be the first to defend LE period, however this should have been delt with via the teacher and the staff ad.
I would hate to think either of them would allow a police officer handle their own child and eight!

 

[JeannaT]

Nana, it was the school who called the cops, wasn't it? Wasn't this the officer's job? It doesn't seem likely the officer was there for a reason than student discipline, and he wasn't basically doing the job he was contracted to do, although apparently they didn't expect him to handcuff a child. Wasn't his job to enforce discipline?

Usually, in elementary, the mere presence of a cop will insure perfect behavior. I know when we did the Dare program, kids would behave 100% when the cop was leading the program.

Also, I know that parents call cops a LOT and ask for help from cops, making their children behave and respect their rules. Cops are called on by single moms often, to come to their homes and read the kids the riot act who think they don't have to obey mom. I think there are a lot of parents who would approve of their kid being treated that way, if it's true the child attempted to punch the cop. I certainly would, honestly. Best to learn at 8 years old you can't punch a cop, or a teacher, or another authority figure.

 

[KaaBoom]

Nana, it was the school who called the cops, wasn't it? Wasn't this the officer's job? It doesn't seem likely the officer was there for a reason than student discipline, and he wasn't basically doing the job he was contracted to do, although apparently they didn't expect him to handcuff a child. Wasn't his job to enforce discipline?

He violated several state laws by handcuffing those students. That was not his job to do that. The law is very clear, LEOs are not allowed to put handcuffs on students in Kentucky schools. He is just another power tripping cop who thinks he is above the law.

 

[LonghornSpeakEasy]

.... A teacher can literally not hold a child's hand who is likely to dart out into traffic as they load the bus.

RSBM

From my experience working in a Texas school district, the only time a special needs child could be restrained was to prevent injury, e.g., when attempting to run into traffic, out of the school building, or similar situations. If a child was a "known runner," holding their hand gently in a potentially unsafe situation to prevent harm would be acceptable but in that case a BIP (Behavioral Intervention Plan) should already be in place addressing that issue.

 

[bluesneakers]

He violated several state laws by handcuffing those students. That was not his job to do that. The law is very clear, LEOs are not allowed to put handcuffs on students in Kentucky schools. He is just another power tripping cop who thinks he is above the law.

IMO at the absolute very least it's a police officer's job to not break the law.

 

[Woodland]

Nana, it was the school who called the cops, wasn't it? Wasn't this the officer's job? It doesn't seem likely the officer was there for a reason than student discipline, and he wasn't basically doing the job he was contracted to do, although apparently they didn't expect him to handcuff a child. Wasn't his job to enforce discipline?

Usually, in elementary, the mere presence of a cop will insure perfect behavior. I know when we did the Dare program, kids would behave 100% when the cop was leading the program.

Also, I know that parents call cops a LOT and ask for help from cops, making their children behave and respect their rules. Cops are called on by single moms often, to come to their homes and read the kids the riot act who think they don't have to obey mom. I think there are a lot of parents who would approve of their kid being treated that way, if it's true the child attempted to punch the cop. I certainly would, honestly. Best to learn at 8 years old you can't punch a cop, or a teacher, or another authority figure.

BBM - any link to that - or is that your opinion?

Underlined by me - any link to that - or is that your opinion?

 

[KaaBoom]

Ok....
Then I want to know why this person didn't do something about it?
Why allow this to go on for so long?
I also want the teacher and this staff member out of that school!
So as I understand adult teacher, adult staff member did nothing!
Good thing it wasn't mine.

Probably because he has a badge and a gun, and could have shot and killed any school employee who tried to stop him. Should the school employees have tried to rush him and disarm him?

 

[Woodland]

I watched the video, and you can't really see what's going on because the cop's body is in the way. It does open with "you don't get to swing at me like that", the cop says to the child.

Indeed. That may be the best lesson this child can learn, early. Don't imagine you can punch a cop.

The video is very short, but the cop doesn't seem at all like he's lost his temper or is a bully. This is a kid who thinks he can punch a cop.

My guess is, he probably also thinks he can punch or kick a teacher, but they just kind of have to jump out of the way and can't restrain a child.

To convenient for me.

 

[Tulessa]

BBM - any link to that - or is that your opinion?

Underlined by me - any link to that - or is that your opinion?

I would love to see that link, and Woodland, you're the one that is kicka$$ lol.

 

[JeannaT]

BBM - any link to that - or is that your opinion?

Underlined by me - any link to that - or is that your opinion?

It's not my opinion, it's my experience. My son has some cop friends and we had a conversation about that. Not all life is recorded on the internet. A statement that "cops are called to homes all the time to help with discipline" isn't an opinion. It's a statement that's either true, or it's false.

But what the heck. I bet I can find a link to back me up in less than a minute.

 

[JeannaT]

Here's your link, Woodlands. And it took me less than a minute as I'd predicted.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...iting-homes-mums-dads-deal-bad-behaviour.html

 

[LonghornSpeakEasy]

Fwiw, I think you are great Margo/Mom - you have a fantastic grasp imo of the system where these special needs children are concerned and what should happen and what would work best - I believe you. In fact, imo, if anyone could make a meaningful long term difference - it's you. It's possible you could sell sand to the Arabs and water to any island surrounded by water.

But, I don't quite get your stance at the moment where LE is concerned - what I get is a mixed message. On one hand you appear not to like that LE is involved and what LE is doing - but on the other hand it seems it's OK with you - as long as LE is there.

Imo, if you are going to condemn on behalf of those that cannot condemn the behavior they face with LE, then condemn LE for using and or abusing the behavior. I don't mean to sway you to condemn LE overall, but if you don't like how they are handling this type of situation - don't blame someone else. Jmo.

You could sway me in a heartbeat to kick LE out of this system - buy my vote counts for nothing. Just not quite getting what you want - but I bet it's a good thing!

Woodland, what I see are many posts condemning LE for his actions alone and I understand that as the video only shows his actions. What I think others who have experience in the school environment are trying to say is this is NOT the case of a rogue officer coming in and throwing his weight around. It is a systemic problem of how to handle behavioral issues in school that is very complicated. Classroom teachers and administrators feel they have few tools to use so they passed the buck to the big, bad meanie cop who didn't handle the situation appropriately either. Of course, if the educators who are supposed to be trained in how to handle behavioral issues in students don't know what to do, how can we expect a LEO who probably has to little to no training in this area know what to do? They give him the kid and say fix it!

What I saw from 13 years in a public school district was many edicts (laws) coming down from above (legislatures and courts) from people who had spent very little time in schools and had very little idea of the reality of how schools functioned. There is much room for improvement in handling behavioral issues and special education issues but many school districts don't want or can't spend the money necessary to fix problems appropriately until forced to do so. IMO and from MY experience in MY district, administration was focused on test scores and believed special education was just "a thorn in their side."

For what it's worth I think the officer was totally out of line but so was the administrator that was filming. I reserve judgment on others until I know what they did and whether a BIP was in place.

For what it's worth I haven't read about the girl's case yet.

 

[LonghornSpeakEasy]

Probably because he has a badge and a gun, and could have shot and killed any school employee who tried to stop him. Should the school employees have tried to rush him and disarm him?

Really?

 

[Woodland]

Your sons cop friends and Her Majesty's Inspectorate says it's true. Must be so.

 

[KaaBoom]

I watched the video, and you can't really see what's going on because the cop's body is in the way. It does open with "you don't get to swing at me like that", the cop says to the child.

Indeed. That may be the best lesson this child can learn, early. Don't imagine you can punch a cop.

The video is very short, but the cop doesn't seem at all like he's lost his temper or is a bully. This is a kid who thinks he can punch a cop.

My guess is, he probably also thinks he can punch or kick a teacher, but they just kind of have to jump out of the way and can't restrain a child.

Here we go again the police can do no wrong.:shakehead:

The poor gutless, pathetic, coward cop was afraid of getting hit by a 52 pound eight year old, so he had no choice but to handcuff the kid in violation of state laws.

Both the students have experienced severe mental health issues as a result of the incidents. The only lesson the kids learned is that the police are their enemy, and to fear them.

 

[Woodland]

Woodland, what I see are many posts condemning LE for his actions alone and I understand that as the video only shows his actions. What I think others who have experience in the school environment are trying to say is this is NOT the case of a rogue officer coming in and throwing his weight around. It is a systemic problem of how to handle behavioral issues in school that is very complicated. Classroom teachers and administrators feel they have few tools to use so they passed the buck to the big, bad meanie cop who didn't handle the situation appropriately either. Of course, if the educators who are supposed to be trained in how to handle behavioral issues in students don't know what to do, how can we expect a LEO who probably has to little to no training in this area know what to do? They give him the kid and say fix it!

What I saw from 13 years in a public school district was many edicts (laws) coming down from above (legislatures and courts) from people who had spent very little time in schools and had very little idea of the reality of how schools functioned. There is much room for improvement in handling behavioral issues and special education issues but many school districts don't want or can't spend the money necessary to fix problems appropriately until forced to do so. IMO and from MY experience in MY district, administration was focused on test scores and believed special education was just "a thorn in their side."

For what it's worth I think the officer was totally out of line but so was the administrator that was filming. I reserve judgment on others until I know what they did and whether a BIP was in place.

For what it's worth I haven't read about the girl's case yet.

I did understand the issues from Margo/Mom's posts - and I agree. The acceptance of it from people that don't like it is what I cannot understand.

 

[LonghornSpeakEasy]

I did understand the issues from Margo/Mom's posts - and I agree. The acceptance of it from people that don't like it is what I cannot understand.

Just to clarify...you mean some people posting don't like what the officer did but still think it's okay?

 

[JeannaT]

Here we go again the police can do no wrong.:shakehead:

The poor gutless, pathetic, coward cop was afraid of getting hit by a 52 pound eight year old, so he had no choice but to handcuff the kid in violation of state laws.

Both the students have experienced severe mental health issues as a result of the incidents. The only lesson the kids learned is that the police are their enemy, and to fear them.

That's about as far from what I believe, as you can get.

What I believe is, it's a mistake to let a child grow up thinking they can punch a cop. That will not end well.

 

[KaaBoom]

That's about as far from what I believe, as you can get.

What I believe is, it's a mistake to let a child grow up thinking they can punch a cop. That will not end well.

It has already not ended well. The kids are going to be traumatized and afraid of cops for their rest of lives.