Kyron Horman Discussion Thread 2017-2019

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Yeah, sorry, I've got a wicked case of dyslexia. With all do respect, not issuing an indictment is usually because of just that- that there isn't enough evidence. I was one of those taxpayers that contributed to the 1.3 million MCSO spent on this investigation- and you think if there had been a lot of evidence that they wouldn't have taken it to trial? The pressure on them was fierce.

And again, I can't help but go back to- what possible evidence? There isn't a crime scene, no security footage from the school, and not even circumstantial evidence that suggested what Terri did with Kyron, or why.

Houze made it clear that any request for materials, or questions- including assessments of his client- and that she would be asserting her 5th. So essentially, you've hung up your hat on Terri in the court of public opinion because she followed the advice of her attorney?
 
Indicting means the right evidence, not just "a lot of" evidence.

Yes, having the brilliant, high-powered criminal defense attorney Houze representing her put a lot of pressure on prosecutor to get it right. They want a conviction, and to bring Kyron home.

Regardless of who disappeared Kyron, there is a crime scene. We just don't know what it is.

There is circumstantial evidence known to the public, and I'm sure, much that is not. If you have followed the case closely from the beginning, you know what it is.

TH would be foolish not to listen to her attorney and carefully consider his advice. But, he works for her, not the other way around. She is not bound by her attorney's advice. He cannot prevent her from telling the truth. So yeah, I do not buy the "But her attorney said!" argument.

Planning to plead the 5th is a way of putting yourself first. You have a legal, constitutional right to do that. In this situation, putting herself first meant that she lost her little child. That tells me a lot about her as a person; and from that, in addition to many other reasons, I draw the conclusion that she is guilty.

All IMO
 
I was chit chatting with a friend of mine recently who was empaneled on a grand jury. Grand juries meet several days a week for several months, considering many different cases. Anyway, the standard to indict is usually just a probable standard. That is, its probable that a crime has been committed and its probable that a specified person is responsible for that crime. All this to say - it appears there just is not enough evidence that TH is actually responsible for the crime.

I personally think she did it, but circumstantial evidence isn't enough to convict.
 
And I do believe there were "several grand juries" that looked at this and again none indicted. It totally stumps me how people can play judge and jury on this case. We don't do it on other cases yet for some reason folks do it with this case. Not just WS but all kinds of forums. Don't get me wrong that I am saying Terri did not have anything to do with the disappearance. I just don't know who did it and I am not ready to only look in one directions. My biggest concern is that this school was so negligent that a 7 year old disappeared on there watch period. Why didn't the bio parents sue them? What would you think if there was no "official record" that your child would be absent, he goes missing and no one ever notifies you he is not at school. No one held that school accountable. Lots of people "want" Terri to be guilty for there own personal reasons. I know I am very unpopular for feeling this way. I love every one here and have so much respect for the posters at WS. This one case just confuses me. Lets remember what happened to Isabel Celis's father. He was convicted in public opinion as well.
Peace everyone
Raja
 
IMO there is plenty of calling out who they believe are guilty on WS.

If you have followed the Delphi girls' murders, oh my. DN's guilt was just theory, no facts. But there were some who were absolutely adamant to the point of insisting that everyone else agree with them, that he was the killer. And it turned out he was not involved at all. Not to mention all the other "suspects" that posters have insisted are the killer.

It's been nine years since Kyron went missing, so yeah, I'm ready to look in one direction.

Maybe the families didn't sue Kyron's school because they knew the school was not negligent? Reportedly, TH let the teacher know that she was taking Kyron out early. So, the teacher had no reason to report him missing. Reportedly, Kyron was seen leaving with TH.

And speaking of Mr. Celis:
He was not accused of setting up a murder-for-hire plot of his spouse.
He did not have time he could not account for after Isabel disappeared.
He did not plead the 5th.
He did not give up his child because he did not want to answer questions.

And yet, many WSers posted that they thought Isabel Celis' dad was guilty of her disappearance.
If he had done all those things, I might have too.

My perspective on this case and others is that TH can speak for herself. Kyron cannot. His voice has been stilled. So, believing what I have learned right here at WS, my concern is for the primary victim, Kyron. If that makes me guilty of "playing judge and jury," ok.

I'm not trying to be difficult or argumentative. I just feel passionately about advocating for victims who cannot speak for themselves.




raja said:
And I do believe there were "several grand juries" that looked at this and again none indicted. It totally stumps me how people can play judge and jury on this case. We don't do it on other cases yet for some reason folks do it with this case. Not just WS but all kinds of forums. Don't get me wrong that I am saying Terri did not have anything to do with the disappearance. I just don't know who did it and I am not ready to only look in one directions. My biggest concern is that this school was so negligent that a 7 year old disappeared on there watch period. Why didn't the bio parents sue them? What would you think if there was no "official record" that your child would be absent, he goes missing and no one ever notifies you he is not at school. No one held that school accountable. Lots of people "want" Terri to be guilty for there own personal reasons. I know I am very unpopular for feeling this way. I love every one here and have so much respect for the posters at WS. This one case just confuses me. Lets remember what happened to Isabel Celis's father. He was convicted in public opinion as well.
Peace everyone
Raja
Click to expand...
 
ReadySet said:
IMO there is plenty of calling out who they believe are guilty on WS.

If you have followed the Delphi girls' murders, oh my. DN's guilt was just theory, no facts. But there were some who were absolutely adamant to the point of insisting that everyone else agree with them, that he was the killer. And it turned out he was not involved at all. Not to mention all the other "suspects" that posters have insisted are the killer.

It's been nine years since Kyron went missing, so yeah, I'm ready to look in one direction.

Maybe the families didn't sue Kyron's school because they knew the school was not negligent? Reportedly, TH let the teacher know that she was taking Kyron out early. So, the teacher had no reason to report him missing. Reportedly, Kyron was seen leaving with TH.

And speaking of Mr. Celis:
He was not accused of setting up a murder-for-hire plot of his spouse.
He did not have time he could not account for after Isabel disappeared.
He did not plead the 5th.
He did not give up his child because he did not want to answer questions.

And yet, many WSers posted that they thought Isabel Celis' dad was guilty of her disappearance.
If he had done all those things, I might have too.

My perspective on this case and others is that TH can speak for herself. Kyron cannot. His voice has been stilled. So, believing what I have learned right here at WS, my concern is for the primary victim, Kyron. If that makes me guilty of "playing judge and jury," ok.

I'm not trying to be difficult or argumentative. I just feel passionately about advocating for victims who cannot speak for themselves.
Click to expand...


I love your passion, and hope you can appreciate that is where I speak from as well.

What do you make of Sanchez’s deposition? Because he does not outline the jaw dropping MHF plot that broke on 7/4/10.
Landscaper says Terri Horman wanted him to get rid of her husband: court records - oregonlive.com

I don’t think it’s reasonable to think she never cooperated- especially since her “changing story” stems from only the KH and DY, not investigators. Sheriff says thousands of tips on Kyron case still coming in

Humor yourself, and assume that she truly didn’t do it, which also assumes that she’s sitting there in 2010 thinking holy - these people think I did this, and have already spent over a million dollars trying to prove it. At that point, I’m doing whatever my attorney tells me- especially if it’s advice coming from Stephen Houze.

So if he says it’s better to plead the 5th and give up custody in the moment- VS. Facing the possibility of something circumstantial used against me and possibly never seeing my daughter again because I end up in jail- then I take the 5th.

I agree that what’s most damning is that she hasn’t seen her daughter- but who knows what’s going on behind the scenes and whether or not she’s in a reunification process- the last article about custody came out in 2014, and it was in her favor- Kaine Horman awarded custody of daughter; Terri Horman to have strictly-supervised visits eventually - oregonlive.com

I think it was someone from within the community- a tragedy like the Cleveland Girls. No one he knows thinks he wandered away, and it’s too desolate for a stranger to happen upon the school as a crime of opportunity, and even assuming that was the case- everyone said that school is too small for a stranger to stroll in unnoticed- especially if someone was leaving with a child that wasn’t theirs. I think this abduction was planned by something familiar with the school and community. Maybe Kyron wasn’t the target, but he happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

What have you seen, with credibility, that Terri reportedly left with Kyron? Because I see that mentioned in blogs often- but without a source, or even without being cited in a news article.

And that’s part of what has always hung me up on her possibility of innocence- if she left the school with him that morning- people would have come forward and said so. Think of everything that was leaked- her personal emails, a witness that saw her at FM, and the investigators leaked the cell phone pings and MFH plot themselves. If they spoke to everyone at that school, and had even one person claiming that they saw her leave with Kyron- you don’t think that would have been leaked? Because if true, that’s the most incriminating evidence against her- why wouldn’t they leak it with everything else that was dropped? Personally, I think it’s because those accounts just don’t exist.

While this credibility is slim, if anything, the opposite has been reported-
 
raja said:
As a famous politician just said "We choose truth over facts". Terri is a mastermind...I guess that it some's truth.
Click to expand...


There is no fact that Terri is a criminal mastermind... however, that is the truth so many have leeched onto. I think I get it (lol), and couldn’t agree more.
 
ReadySet said:
IMO there is plenty of calling out who they believe are guilty on WS.

If you have followed the Delphi girls' murders, oh my. DN's guilt was just theory, no facts. But there were some who were absolutely adamant to the point of insisting that everyone else agree with them, that he was the killer. And it turned out he was not involved at all. Not to mention all the other "suspects" that posters have insisted are the killer.

It's been nine years since Kyron went missing, so yeah, I'm ready to look in one direction.

Maybe the families didn't sue Kyron's school because they knew the school was not negligent? Reportedly, TH let the teacher know that she was taking Kyron out early. So, the teacher had no reason to report him missing. Reportedly, Kyron was seen leaving with TH.

And speaking of Mr. Celis:
He was not accused of setting up a murder-for-hire plot of his spouse.
He did not have time he could not account for after Isabel disappeared.
He did not plead the 5th.
He did not give up his child because he did not want to answer questions.

And yet, many WSers posted that they thought Isabel Celis' dad was guilty of her disappearance.
If he had done all those things, I might have too.


My perspective on this case and others is that TH can speak for herself. Kyron cannot. His voice has been stilled. So, believing what I have learned right here at WS, my concern is for the primary victim, Kyron. If that makes me guilty of "playing judge and jury," ok.

I'm not trying to be difficult or argumentative. I just feel passionately about advocating for victims who cannot speak for themselves.
Click to expand...
I am so glad we are all passionate about advocating for victims. Regarding the Delphi girls I am passionate about them as well. I am so close to that case I could walk there. I have a small stack of blue sticky notes with names of POI. I am willing to add more if needed.

If TH walked out of that school with Kyron and neither returned that would be stated on his official missing posters, I do not believe it is. TH did account for her time but it is simply dismissed by many. The cell phone pings are just that and not indicative of any thing. We could go round and round about all these things and we would be nowhere but back to where we started. I am just glad we have a place to discuss it here at WS. I know I am in the minority on Kyron's thread. God I want Kyron found and alive would be wonderful. I just don't think asking one women "where is Kyron" is the answer.
 
As I said, TH was accused of plotting to murder her husband. It's a fact she was accused. Oh well. Who among us hasn't been accused of a murder for hire scheme? Happens every day.

She did cooperate...for about three and a half weeks. Then, the person who, according to her, knew Kyron the best, and arguably would have the most information about other people who came in contact with Kyron, and would have the most insight about what was going on with him, stopped talking.

Any mother (and she called Kyron her son) would wake up in the middle of the night and think, Wait! There was that guy...there was that situation...Kyron was maybe...could he have...? She knew where he had been and who he had come in contact with. If she was innocent, of course she must have had many ideas and thoughts about what might have happened, things that she wanted to tell LE, even if they didn't pan out, just in case something she thought of could help! But she kept all that to herself. She couldn't have told LE all she knew in three and a half weeks. She would have kept thinking of other things that might help...if she were innocent.

Because her own freedom was more important than Kyron, more important then her daughter. I mean, we all would have done the same, right? (If I were innocent, I would not have. I would put my children above myself. But that's just me.)

The context of her doing what her attorney said is that her child is missing. Kyron is missing! Your child is missing but you stop trying to help find him!

If by "criminal mastermind" you mean a person that is really good at maintaining their lies over a long period of time, and good at hiding a little child, then yes, I agree that's what she is.
 
Again my initial post was about thinking we know the truth. Do we know for a fact what she told police. No. If she in fact plotted the death of her husband why was she not indicted for that? Did you know that Sanchez had to have an interpreter for his discussions with LE on this case. Is TH fluent in Spanish, I don't know. Was there mis-communication between the two? I do think TH was the one that told LE about Sanchez. Kaine did not even know he was the landscaper. IF she really tried to get him to off Kaine would she have told LE about Sanchez? If someone can find all of TH's emails I think we will find that Sanchez actually was abusive to TH while she was holding her daughter around Mother's day. I believe she complained about it in her emails.
Kaine is no angel. Remember DY cut ties with him in the fall after Kyron went missing because of things she had found out. We don't know what that was. If my child was missing, I was being accused and I had nothing to do with it I don't know what I would do. I sure wouldn't let them corral me and stop looking for that missing child. I respect your opinion. This is just all my MOO and IMHO.:)
 
ReadySet said:
As I said, TH was accused of plotting to murder her husband. It's a fact she was accused. Oh well. Who among us hasn't been accused of a murder for hire scheme? Happens every day.

She did cooperate...for about three and a half weeks. Then, the person who, according to her, knew Kyron the best, and arguably would have the most information about other people who came in contact with Kyron, and would have the most insight about what was going on with him, stopped talking.

Any mother (and she called Kyron her son) would wake up in the middle of the night and think, Wait! There was that guy...there was that situation...Kyron was maybe...could he have...? She knew where he had been and who he had come in contact with. If she was innocent, of course she must have had many ideas and thoughts about what might have happened, things that she wanted to tell LE, even if they didn't pan out, just in case something she thought of could help! But she kept all that to herself. She couldn't have told LE all she knew in three and a half weeks. She would have kept thinking of other things that might help...if she were innocent.

Because her own freedom was more important than Kyron, more important then her daughter. I mean, we all would have done the same, right? (If I were innocent, I would not have. I would put my children above myself. But that's just me.)

The context of her doing what her attorney said is that her child is missing. Kyron is missing! Your child is missing but you stop trying to help find him!

If by "criminal mastermind" you mean a person that is really good at maintaining their lies over a long period of time, and good at hiding a little child, then yes, I agree that's what she is.
Click to expand...
Well said!!
 
raja said:
And I do believe there were "several grand juries" that looked at this and again none indicted. It totally stumps me how people can play judge and jury on this case. We don't do it on other cases yet for some reason folks do it with this case. Not just WS but all kinds of forums. Don't get me wrong that I am saying Terri did not have anything to do with the disappearance. I just don't know who did it and I am not ready to only look in one directions. My biggest concern is that this school was so negligent that a 7 year old disappeared on there watch period. Why didn't the bio parents sue them? What would you think if there was no "official record" that your child would be absent, he goes missing and no one ever notifies you he is not at school. No one held that school accountable. Lots of people "want" Terri to be guilty for there own personal reasons. I know I am very unpopular for feeling this way. I love every one here and have so much respect for the posters at WS. This one case just confuses me. Lets remember what happened to Isabel Celis's father. He was convicted in public opinion as well.
Peace everyone
Raja
Click to expand...
Well said! You certainly are not alone in your view. The media played judge and jury on this case from the beginning and Terri was convicted in the court of public opinion. LE blew the investigation by immediately placing tunnel vision only on Terri and trying like crazy to make it stick. I continue to hold the opinion Kyron's father knows the answers.

JMO
 
ReadySet, I burst out laughing after reading your post. I was thinking the same thing. I don't care what people say about me, I will NEVER give up my child willingly. Throw me in prison, call me names, I don't care, you're going to have to pry my child from my cold dead hands. AND I can't even imagine if I lost one child -albeit a step child - who was still missing, there is NO WAY I would voluntarily give up my remaining child.

As for the murder plot allegations, my husband gets on my darn nerves on a regular basis and yet somehow I've never been accused of a murder for hire scheme. But I don't even think we need to go there to find circumstantial evidence of her involvement.
 
ReadySet said:
As I said, TH was accused of plotting to murder her husband. It's a fact she was accused. Oh well. Who among us hasn't been accused of a murder for hire scheme? Happens every day.

She did cooperate...for about three and a half weeks. Then, the person who, according to her, knew Kyron the best, and arguably would have the most information about other people who came in contact with Kyron, and would have the most insight about what was going on with him, stopped talking.

Kyron Horman’s mom to release book, shares new details about investigation maybe...could he have...? She knew where he had been and who he had come in contact with. If she was innocent, of course she must have had many ideas and thoughts about what might have happened, things that she wanted to tell LE, even if they didn't pan out, just in case something she thought of could help! But she kept all that to herself. She couldn't have told LE all she knew in three and a half weeks. She would have kept thinking of other things that might help...if she were innocent.

Because her own freedom was more important than Kyron, more important then her daughter. I mean, we all would have done the same, right? (If I were innocent, I would not have. I would put my children above myself. But that's just me.)

The context of her doing what her attorney said is that her child is missing. Kyron is missing! Your child is missing but you stop trying to help find him!

If by "criminal mastermind" you mean a person that is really good at maintaining their lies over a long period of time, and good at hiding a little child, then yes, I agree that's what she is.[/QUOTE
Click to expand...
 
"She [Dessiree] renewed her pressure on Kyron's stepmother Terry Horman, who was the last to see him. Shortly after the disappearance, Terry failed two polygraph tests and stopped working with police."

“I am always talking to our head detective,” Young said. “Go knock on her door, go knock on her door. Talk to her. She can plead the fifth. She can say go talk to my attorney, but go put pressure on her.”

Mother says search for Kyron Horman has narrowed, 9 years after the 7-year-old disappeared
 
raja said:
Again my initial post was about thinking we know the truth. Do we know for a fact what she told police. No. If she in fact plotted the death of her husband why was she not indicted for that? Did you know that Sanchez had to have an interpreter for his discussions with LE on this case. Is TH fluent in Spanish, I don't know. Was there mis-communication between the two? I do think TH was the one that told LE about Sanchez. Kaine did not even know he was the landscaper. IF she really tried to get him to off Kaine would she have told LE about Sanchez? If someone can find all of TH's emails I think we will find that Sanchez actually was abusive to TH while she was holding her daughter around Mother's day. I believe she complained about it in her emails.
Kaine is no angel. Remember DY cut ties with him in the fall after Kyron went missing because of things she had found out. We don't know what that was. If my child was missing, I was being accused and I had nothing to do with it I don't know what I would do. I sure wouldn't let them corral me and stop looking for that missing child. I respect your opinion. This is just all my MOO and IMHO.:)
Click to expand...

Do you have a link that Sanchez needed an interpreter?
 
raja said:
Again my initial post was about thinking we know the truth. Do we know for a fact what she told police. No. If she in fact plotted the death of her husband why was she not indicted for that? Did you know that Sanchez had to have an interpreter for his discussions with LE on this case. Is TH fluent in Spanish, I don't know. Was there mis-communication between the two? I do think TH was the one that told LE about Sanchez. Kaine did not even know he was the landscaper. IF she really tried to get him to off Kaine would she have told LE about Sanchez? If someone can find all of TH's emails I think we will find that Sanchez actually was abusive to TH while she was holding her daughter around Mother's day. I believe she complained about it in her emails.
Kaine is no angel. Remember DY cut ties with him in the fall after Kyron went missing because of things she had found out. We don't know what that was. If my child was missing, I was being accused and I had nothing to do with it I don't know what I would do. I sure wouldn't let them corral me and stop looking for that missing child. I respect your opinion. This is just all my MOO and IMHO.:)
Click to expand...

The police needed the proof re the murder for hire. Remember the botched attempt to get the proof.
 
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