Kyron Horman Discussion Thread 2020 - 2022 - #2

[Laura456]

What are the chances a random stranger drove up, went into the school and abducted Kyron?

The likelihood seems miniscule.

It would be someone who knew there would be a science fair, maybe a relative of a student? Or was the science fair announced on one of those huge letter signs in the front of the school?

 

[FergusMcDuck]

What are the chances a random stranger drove up, went into the school and abducted Kyron?

The likelihood seems miniscule.

It would be someone who knew there would be a science fair, maybe a relative of a student? Or was the science fair announced on one of those huge letter signs in the front of the school?

It was.

 

[Laura456]

It was.

Unfortunate

 

[Vern]

Clearly since TH is not in prison. Did anyone say it was?

Some are certainly inferring that it is 'evidence' of her guilt given that it repeatedly gets stated and brought up as such.

Somewhat like the 'evidence' of the sting LE set-up actually failing can be seen as a sign of her innocence of that accusation. Just as the burner phones were procured after the failed sting - sign of her innocence upon becoming aware that perhaps she was maybe being set up by LE for Kyron's disappearance (were she innocent) regardless of proof of guilt or actual evidence of such.

 

[Leve]

I am far, far from being a "Terri supporter" lol, but I do believe LE focused on her early on to the detriment of the investigation. Most of the potential witnesses were kids, anything they may have seen is completely lost now. And Desiree, while I feel horribly sorry for her - I take every thing she says with a huge grain of salt.

 

[Truth Prevails]

sbm
It's important to note that Terri got that DUI while a child was in the car with her.

Terri's drinking seems to have been a problem during the years she was married to Kaine which is, of course, the time she was often responsible and alone with Kyron. It makes me ponder what kind of life sweet Kyron really had.

Snipped quote: On July 10, 2005, she was pulled over by police on Interstate 5 near Woodburn just after 6 p.m. Given a breath test, she registered 0.15. Under Oregon law, it is illegal to drive with a blood alcohol level of 0.08 percent or more.
Terri Moulton Horman: Kyron Horman's stepmother is a profile in contradictions

Snipped quote: A records search of Terri Horman under her current, maiden, and previous married names turned up a DUI conviction in 2005 in which she pleaded guilty not only to driving under the influence, but also to "reckless endangerment of another."
Oregon State Police Lt. Gregg Hastings told ABCNews.com that the endangerment charge stemmed from the fact that her son, who was 11 at the time, was in the vehicle when she was stopped.
A spokeswoman for the court in Marion County, Ore., said Horman was sentenced to 12 months probation, a 90-day suspension of her driver's license and she had to attend alcohol counseling programs and attend a victim impact statement.
In addition, she wracked up nine traffic infractions, including several for speeding and one for driving with an expired license, between 1988 and 2004.
Mystery 911 Call to Kyron Horman's Home Adds to Police Case

Snipped Quote: On Sunday KATU also received our first confirmation that Terri Horman has been the subject of a prior investigation regarding her parenting.
A source confirmed late Sunday afternoon that the Oregon Department of Human Services opened a case on Terri Horman following a 2005 arrest and charge of driving under the influence. Her biological son, who was 11 at the time, was in the car when his mother was arrested. As such, Horman also was convicted of reckless endangerment of that son.
Horman pleaded guilty in that incident. She had her license suspended for a month and a half, and served out a 12-month probation for those convictions.
We called the Department of Human Services to try to get answers from the agency's case file. Instead, DHS workers referred us to investigators working Kyron Horman's disappearance case.
https://web.archive.org/web/20100709124958/http://www.katu.com/news/local/97777564.html

Snipped Quote: He said it wasn't until recently, after conversations with friends and family and talking to people who know about alcoholism, that he said he realized she was an alcoholic.
He said she exhibited odd behavior, but he didn't know what it meant.
"I had no idea what the problem was," he said. "All of a sudden it comes right into focus."
He said, "I think the alcoholism was the tip of the iceberg."
Horman said his 2-year-old daughter Kiara asks about Kyron all the time, but never asks about her mother.
https://web.archive.org/web/20111004073126/http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html

Snipped quote: "We're dealing with someone who is a master of deception, misdirection, and she's bringing it forward in spades," Kaine said of Terri during a press conference at the boy's 'Wall of Hope.'
Kaine said that, since the investigation began, he's heard directly from friends and family about conversations they had with Terri.
He said he realized too late, after he and Terri were no longer together, that she was crafting an image of her relationship with him and children in their household that was untrue.
Kaine told reporters that a good example of Terri's deception was her alcoholism. She hid it from him well, he said.
"It's only the tip of the iceberg" of her flaws, he said.
https://web.archive.org/web/20101119044546/https://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine-Horman-Terri-Horman-master-of-deception-108218104.html

Snipped quote: 6. Respondent has historical problems with the abuse of alcohol, which have impaired her functioning since [the baby’s] birth. Respondent was convicted for driving while under the influence of alcohol and child endangerment in 2005. Her son [oldest child, not Kyron] was in the car with her when she was arrested. That was not an isolated incident of alcohol abuse. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e., slurring speech, staggering gait, etc. several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00 p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes [the baby] would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with [the baby]. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. [The baby] would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting [the baby] to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended.
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/petition.PDF

 

[Truth Prevails]

Below is an image of the sign that existed in front of Skyline Elementary School on June 4, 2010.

Four years later: Kyron Horman still missing

Underneath is a similar sign that is in a similar place in front of Skyline Elementary School as of May 2023 as per Google Maps. As no other children have gone missing since June of 2010, I find it doubtful the sign played any part in Kyron's disappearance.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[Maat99]

Below is an image of the sign that existed in front of Skyline Elementary School on June 4, 2010.

Four years later: Kyron Horman still missing

Underneath is a similar sign that is in a similar place in front of Skyline Elementary School as of May 2023 as per Google Maps. As no other children have gone missing since June of 2010, I find it doubtful the sign played any part in Kyron's disappearance.

sbm
Not to mention that the school is in a pretty remote area. Not a lot of traffic on that road by the school. There are 35 elementary schools in Portland. Many of them are way more visible to random passerby’s and equally accessible.

 

[OddOneOut]

Below is an image of the sign that existed in front of Skyline Elementary School on June 4, 2010.
View attachment 449560
Four years later: Kyron Horman still missing

Underneath is a similar sign that is in a similar place in front of Skyline Elementary School as of May 2023 as per Google Maps. As no other children have gone missing since June of 2010, I find it doubtful the sign played any part in Kyron's disappearance.
View attachment 449555

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Perhaps the abductor moved, died, or is in prison for another crime. Unless this case is solved, there is no way to know whether the abductor was drawn by the sign or not.

 

[Vern]

Terri's drinking seems to have been a problem during the years she was married to Kaine which is, of course, the time she was often responsible and alone with Kyron. It makes me ponder what kind of life sweet Kyron really had.

...

RSBM

Terri's drinking didn't seem to be a problem for Kaine, who married and had a child with her, nor for Desiree who allowed her own son to be taken into the custody of Terri and Kaine and to be cared for by them full-time until 28 June 2010 - after the failed sting and same date he left with their child.

I find that very interesting.

 

[Leve]

"I just saw him (Kyron) in the gym, and I saw the truck out in the parking lot," he said Wednesday. Kessinger said Kyron was looking at other students' science fair projects, seemed happy and was with friends

He said when he saw Kyron in the gym he didn't see Terri Horman with him. He and his family have turned over pictures they took at the science fair to investigators, but they've been asked not to disclose the timeframe in which he saw Kyron.

Kyron's mother claims Terri planned disappearance

katu.com

 

[Maat99]

RSBM

Terri's drinking didn't seem to be a problem for Kaine, who married and had a child with her, nor for Desiree who allowed her own son to be taken into the custody of Terri and Kaine and to be cared for by them full-time until 28 June 2010 - after the failed sting and same date he left with their child.

I find that very interesting.

There is no doubt that Kaine and Desiree made a really bad decision when they allowed Terri to provide full time care for their child(ren).

 

[Vern]

There is no doubt that Kaine and Desiree made a really bad decision when they allowed Terri to provide full time care for their child(ren).

You mean parent them? She wasn't a mere 'caregiver' and neither expressed any issues with her parenting skills either until after 28 June 2010, after the failed sting and same date he left with their child.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

"I just saw him (Kyron) in the gym, and I saw the truck out in the parking lot," he said Wednesday. Kessinger said Kyron was looking at other students' science fair projects, seemed happy and was with friends

He said when he saw Kyron in the gym he didn't see Terri Horman with him. He and his family have turned over pictures they took at the science fair to investigators, but they've been asked not to disclose the timeframe in which he saw Kyron.

Kyron's mother claims Terri planned disappearance

katu.com

It's interesting to me that TK was asked not to divulge the time of the sighting, when GZ never had such a problem. That implies to me that TK gave a time after 8:45 - which his story also backs up. Kyron being with friends and looking at projects is exactly what he would do at the time, during the group tours. No one ever claimed to have seen Terri in the gym.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Quote:
Statement: “Because of a FAPA Order obtained by Petitioner in June 2010, Respondent has not had any contact with [baby K], despite her attorney’s continuing attempts over the last three years to initiate appropriate parental contact.”

Response: The only thing true and admissible about this statement is that the 2010 FAPA Order provided that Respondent should have no parenting time with [baby K]. Respondent had rights since 2010 that included the right to have a hearing to contest the parenting time provisions and/or the FAPA Order in its entirety. In fact, on October 13, 2010, Respondent filed a motion to modify the FAPA Order to provide for parenting time. However, on November 2, 2010, Respondent withdrew her motion. The Declaration of her lawyer makes it perfectly clear that Respondent was giving up her rights to seek parenting time rather than participate in these proceedings. The idea that Petitioner has unilaterally suspended Respondent’s parenting rights is far from the truth. Respondent, alone, is responsible for her own litigation decisions. She, alone, is responsible for her choice to seek no relief from the court during the past three years. The fact that [baby K] has no relationship with Respondent is the direct consequence of Respondent’s decision to exercise her rights against self-incrimination instead of her parenting rights.
https://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/kainehorman.pdf

 

[Maat99]

You mean parent them? She wasn't a mere 'caregiver' and neither expressed any issues with her parenting skills either until after 28 June 2010, after the failed sting and same date he left with their child.

You wrote that Terri and Kaine were allowed to “provide full time care” and I was agreeing with you. If you meant to say “full time parenting” that’s fine too. I also agree with you that it displays a horrible lapse in judgement to only express an issue with her parenting after the failed sting.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Quote:
Statement: “Because of a FAPA Order obtained by Petitioner in June 2010, Respondent has not had any contact with [baby K], despite her attorney’s continuing attempts over the last three years to initiate appropriate parental contact.”

Response: The only thing true and admissible about this statement is that the 2010 FAPA Order provided that Respondent should have no parenting time with [baby K]. Respondent had rights since 2010 that included the right to have a hearing to contest the parenting time provisions and/or the FAPA Order in its entirety. In fact, on October 13, 2010, Respondent filed a motion to modify the FAPA Order to provide for parenting time. However, on November 2, 2010, Respondent withdrew her motion. The Declaration of her lawyer makes it perfectly clear that Respondent was giving up her rights to seek parenting time rather than participate in these proceedings. The idea that Petitioner has unilaterally suspended Respondent’s parenting rights is far from the truth. Respondent, alone, is responsible for her own litigation decisions. She, alone, is responsible for her choice to seek no relief from the court during the past three years. The fact that [baby K] has no relationship with Respondent is the direct consequence of Respondent’s decision to exercise her rights against self-incrimination instead of her parenting rights.
https://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/kainehorman.pdf

Yes, it was the criminal investigation that caused her to not initially contest, since the police had made it clear they were attempting to incriminate her. It's clear that it was Kaine's actions that ultimately prevented Terri from seeing her child.

 

[Vern]

Quote:
Statement: “Because of a FAPA Order obtained by Petitioner in June 2010, Respondent has not had any contact with [baby K], despite her attorney’s continuing attempts over the last three years to initiate appropriate parental contact.”

Response: The only thing true and admissible about this statement is that the 2010 FAPA Order provided that Respondent should have no parenting time with [baby K]. Respondent had rights since 2010 that included the right to have a hearing to contest the parenting time provisions and/or the FAPA Order in its entirety. In fact, on October 13, 2010, Respondent filed a motion to modify the FAPA Order to provide for parenting time. However, on November 2, 2010, Respondent withdrew her motion. The Declaration of her lawyer makes it perfectly clear that Respondent was giving up her rights to seek parenting time rather than participate in these proceedings. The idea that Petitioner has unilaterally suspended Respondent’s parenting rights is far from the truth. Respondent, alone, is responsible for her own litigation decisions. She, alone, is responsible for her choice to seek no relief from the court during the past three years. The fact that [baby K] has no relationship with Respondent is the direct consequence of Respondent’s decision to exercise her rights against self-incrimination instead of her parenting rights.
https://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/kainehorman.pdf

She is responsible for that choice I agree.

Let's consider the facts at play when she made that legally informed/advised choice ... Judge merges the Restraining Order application by Kaine in with the proceedings. The Restraining Order he sought ou based upon the failed sting operation information given to him by the police. Although that info may not have been 'on point' given, again, that the operation failed and she immediately called 911 after the attempt --- same day of Kaine's action of leaving with their daughter. So, importantly, after she became fully aware that LE was gunning for regardless of proof of guilt or actual evidence of such.

Which they apparently still do not have despite their (failed) attempts.

This has nothing to do with being culpable for murder nor is it evidence of such.

 

[Vern]

You wrote that Terri and Kaine were allowed to “provide full time care” and I was agreeing with you. If you meant to say “full time parenting” that’s fine too. I also agree with you that it displays a horrible lapse in judgement to only express an issue with her parenting after the failed sting.

Seen. I did use the word custody in regards to Desiree and her allowing Kaine and Terri to bring in Kyron under their full-time care.

I am not akin to believe that the "lapse in judgement" was caused by anything other than information they were being given by LE as it pertained to the failed sting. Everything only became a problem for Kaine and Desiree after that 'vital' input from LE.

 

[Leve]

Below is an image of the sign that existed in front of Skyline Elementary School on June 4, 2010.
View attachment 449560
Four years later: Kyron Horman still missing

Underneath is a similar sign that is in a similar place in front of Skyline Elementary School as of May 2023 as per Google Maps. As no other children have gone missing since June of 2010, I find it doubtful the sign played any part in Kyron's disappearance.
View attachment 449555

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Lol, I would hope after a child went missing the school changed there security procedures.