LA - Hurricane Katrina, Doctors Euthanized Patients?, 2005

[Opie]

I want more details before forming a definite opinion here, but what about the people in charge of running the hospital? Did they have an evacuation plan? Any plan? Have the officials of the hospital been arrested? What about the Mayor of New Orleans? Where was a plan and why was it not carried out if there was one? This, at first glance, sounds a bit like arresting the foot soldiers who were carrying out the orders of the brass in charge. Or having no orders to follow, in which case the brass should be the ones arrested. My opinion will be formed when I have much more information, and I will be following this.

 

[jannuncutt]

I honestly don't know what I would have done. However, I do know that there is no way I can find fault with the decision that the doctor and those nurses made - a decision I hope and pray to God that I will never have to make. Katrina was hell!!!!!

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I'm not a doctor or a nurse, but isn't the first rule "First, do no harm"??? I think they were wrong for killing the patients, but I also don't think they should be locked up. They're most likely not a continuing danger to society and we need the prison space for those who are. Hopefully, they can find a fitting punishment if they're found guilty.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

I'm not a doctor or a nurse, but isn't the first rule "First, do no harm"??? I think they were wrong for killing the patients, but I also don't think they should be locked up. They're most likely not a continuing danger to society and we need the prison space for those who are. Hopefully, they can find a fitting punishment if they're found guilty.

But what if harm occurs from living? Or someone begs you to put them out of their agony?

 

[tennessee]

I wasn't there. I don't know what was happening in that hospital. However, I have and do know teriminal patients. If the power was out machines couldn't do their job. People should not be made to suffer when they are dying. We treat animals better than we do people. No wonder the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

 

[concernedperson]

I wasn't there. I don't know what was happening in that hospital. However, I have and do know teriminal patients. If the power was out machines couldn't do their job. People should not be made to suffer when they are dying. We treat animals better than we do people. No wonder the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

I am not a nurse or a doctor but I am a parent of a child who had cancer. I saw many children die. Many struggling for a last breathe and they were babies. No one asks for this but it happens.

This is so hard for me. But, where is the line? If you saw what I saw and I had to reconcile that my child might die too and you see the suffering, this is tough stuff. The situation was not all lights and machines glowing and everyone having water at their disposal. This was the worst possible situation....I could never watch humans or animals die in agony. I just could never do this.

 

[Peter Hamilton]

I thnk we should wait for the trial to find out exactly what happened--It was a horrible situation exacerbated by the incredibly inept mayor Nagin and Gov Blanco who both bear most of the responsibility for the Katrina disaster--remember all those buses,hundreds of them,just sitting there flooded out,when they could have been used to transport patients and other people out of there--Nagin should be charged with second-degree murder also--at any rate,I do feel some sympathy for the doctor and nurses--it was a nightmare---But I hope the other trial starts sooner,the one where those nursing home owners left half of their wheelchair-bound patients to drown helplessly,while they just took off--I hope those two get sent to prison for the rest of their lives

 

[concernedperson]

I thnk we should wait for the trial to find out exactly what happened--It was a horrible situation exacerbated by the incredibly inept mayor Nagin and Gov Blanco who both bear most of the responsibility for the Katrina disaster--remember all those buses,hundreds of them,just sitting there flooded out,when they could have been used to transport patients and other people out of there--Nagin should be charged with second-degree murder also--at any rate,I do feel some sympathy for the doctor and nurses--it was a nightmare---But I hope the other trial starts sooner,the one where those nursing home owners left half of their wheelchair-bound patients to drown helplessly,while they just took off--I hope those two get sent to prison for the rest of their lives

That part is crystal clear. Gone pecan is a familiar phrase in S. Louisiana. I know, I am from there originally.

 

[2sisters]

I don't have a clear opinion yet about what the doctor and 2 nurses did, but as someone who in south MS before, during, and after Katrina, the caregivers may have been doing the right thing. There aren't enough facts out for me yet. I have herad that some of the patients who were killed were already dying, the storm had taked a toll on them, some were on some sort of life support, some were running out of life sustaining medications and were going to slowly die. but I'm not sure how true it is, you hear alot of Katrina rumors here. I am outraged mainly at the families of the memorial hospital victims and the St. Rita nursing home victims. They found it fit to evacuate themselves but left their invalid and ill family members there own knowing "the big one" that we have grown up hearing about was coming. As of Aug 28th, 2005 it was the big one that would cover the entire city in massive amounts of water. I'll be da**ed if I would leave my parents, husband, or children in a hospital or nursing home like that to drown and if I couldn't get them out I'd stay at their side until the end.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

But what if harm occurs from living? Or someone begs you to put them out of their agony?

Its against the law here in the United States to do that.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Its against the law here in the United States to do that.

The thing is euthaniasia occurs in hospitals throughout this country all the time, its just that no one is willing to acknowledge it.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

The thing is euthaniasia occurs in hospitals throughout this country all the time, its just that no one is willing to acknowledge it.

I'm for assisted suicide and think it should be made legal. Unless and until that happens, however, its still against the law. We don't know what these patients' wishes were even if it were legal. There are steps in place for those assisted suicide cases that leave absolutely no doubt that the patient was terminal in a very short amount of time, was of sound mind and knew what she or he wanted. We don't know what happened in these cases.

 

[Pepper]

I'm not a doctor or a nurse, but isn't the first rule "First, do no harm"??? I think they were wrong for killing the patients, but I also don't think they should be locked up. They're most likely not a continuing danger to society and we need the prison space for those who are. Hopefully, they can find a fitting punishment if they're found guilty.

Good post Jeana. I totally agree. I might have done the same thing if I were in their shoes at the time.

 

[hoping4truth]

I remember watching the News about Katrina, and I remember the anchors talking about rescuers taking people who were healthy and people who were sickly or who were already dying were left behind. Not to say that it's the right thing to do, but it's understandable that someone would want to rescue a young child, versus an old man. Not that life isn't life - they are all worth the same - but in times of crisis, how can someone put value on it? They just have to go with their gut. I would have grabbed the child, too. Thank god I haven't had to make a choice like that - I think it would be hard to live with.

Katrina was tragic, in all aspects. It was sad things didn't get resolved quickly, it's sad that criminals have used money that was collected to help them get back on their feet for outlandish purposes, it's sad that so many people are still missing from that storm. This whole thing is sad.

 

[LButler]

I don't know the details of how sick these patients were, but I agree with an earlier post that some things are worse than death.

My question is, "Who's responsible for all those people who died out on the streets waiting for help that came too late? And the ones who passed away in the Super Dome while FEMA and our government had their thumbs up their butts and wading thru red tape?"

IMO, those were much more horrible deaths than the what happened with these patients in the hospital.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

I remember watching the News about Katrina, and I remember the anchors talking about rescuers taking people who were healthy and people who were sickly or who were already dying were left behind. Not to say that it's the right thing to do, but it's understandable that someone would want to rescue a young child, versus an old man. Not that life isn't life - they are all worth the same - but in times of crisis, how can someone put value on it? They just have to go with their gut. I would have grabbed the child, too. Thank god I haven't had to make a choice like that - I think it would be hard to live with.

Katrina was tragic, in all aspects. It was sad things didn't get resolved quickly, it's sad that criminals have used money that was collected to help them get back on their feet for outlandish purposes, it's sad that so many people are still missing from that storm. This whole thing is sad.

They were having to fall back on battlefield casualty treatment, which essentially means that if you are going to die anyway, no energy can be afforded to deal with you, outside making you realtively comfortable before the inevitable occurs. Focus is on those who can be saved, not those who are doomed, regardless of the situation. Its cruel, but that is what happens in such primordial situations.

 

[SewingDeb]

I don't know the details of how sick these patients were, but I agree with an earlier post that some things are worse than death.

My question is, "Who's responsible for all those people who died out on the streets waiting for help that came too late? And the ones who passed away in the Super Dome while FEMA and our government had their thumbs up their butts and wading thru red tape?"

IMO, those were much more horrible deaths than the what happened with these patients in the hospital.

You are so right!

 

[MSM]

New Orleans MD decries murder accusations

Attorneys for the trio say they are innocent. DeBoisblanc and others fear the accusations may discourage other health professionals.

"We have people who are volunteering their services and putting their lives on the line. It's going to make it less likely they'll do that in the future," said Dr. Peter deBlieux, an emergency room and intensive care doctor who stayed at Charity Hospital during Katrina.

DeBoisblanc said it's also likely to make doctors less eager to return as the city tries to recover from the hurricane.

No kidding. These were some of my first thoughts when I heard about the arrests. Who is going to want to stay and help out during a crisis when the precedent has been set for criminal prosecution based on second-guessing after the fact?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060722/ap_on_re_us/katrina_hospital_deaths

 

[Details]

So far, I don't think the doctors involved have admitted to any mercy killings, nor any other type. And it's possible that is what happened. But if they did - I'm all for ignoring it, so long as the patients were past the point of no return - it really is inhumane what we will do to helpless people once they are in the grip of the medical system.

So - my analysis -

Option 1: The medicine was just to treat pain, no attempts whatsoever at euthanasia (possible error though) - it's horrible that these people are being second guessed when they were heroes to stay there and risk death to care for these people, when they could have left!

Option 2: Some or all of those who died were in fact killed with deliberate overdoeses, but only when it was clear they would die anyway, and in horrible conditions, pain, unable to communicate or experience anything other than the pain. In this case, I'm all for a wink and a nod - if we have to, pretend it was an accident - or one of them can stand up and fight the unjust laws that would have condemned these poor people to torture before their death - but I wouldn't expect them to - they've sacrificed enough. I know if I were in the situation, seeing someone in pain and lousy circumstances, knowing they were going to die after more pain, and nothing at all, not even a hilicopter at the roof that moment could stop it - I'd be right there to give them a mercy injection to take the pain away, permanently.

Option 3: Overdoses were given prematurely, or to stop the screaming when it was too much for the nurses or doctor to bear. OK, that's a problem, but in the situation, they're definitely not hardened criminals, just people in an impossible situation doing what they could. Assuming there's no previous similar issues - probation at worst is all I could support.

I think it's probably option 2, but it sounds like the defense is going with an option 1 scenario as their story - which is plausible, and so long as those who died could not be saved - I don't care if that's a cover story for option 2.

 

[2sisters]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,205119,00.html
At the right of the story are other links to follow including a story about the families.