LA - Lacey Fletcher 36, GRAPHIC, disabled, found dead, on couch for years, Jan'22 *Parents arrested*

[evilwise]

@evilwise Your assessment is very interesting. What do you think is the most fitting medical term for this phenomenon?

I think this is psychologically a complex case - the diagnoses they could give to Lacey and her parents would be numerous. And even now, when removed from the actual situation and seeing the result in hindsight, what it means that they still can't admit to themselves, and society, what they actually did.

I am not a psychologist and my post is in no way meant to be interpreted as a medical diagnosis. In fact, I don't believe the concept of contagious mental illness is a part of the DSM and if you're trying to bait me into going off-topic, my opinion of the nebulous, unreproducable "science" of psychology is one of my weak points.

However as @LeahBee attested from the patient perspective and I can attest from the perspective of loving a person with a severe mental problem, being very close to it every day can be extremely psychologically taxing. Part of living someone is trying to understand how they feel and when someone legitimately thinks and feels in a nonfunctional way it can get inside your head. Eventually my ex acted out enough to go to prison where they compelled her to try medications until they arrived at a combination that seems to allow her to be functional now that she's been released but I still wouldn't be surprised to learn that she was dead.

I can't imagine Leah's parents neglected her out of malice.

 

[ilovewings]

I am not a psychologist and my post is in no way meant to be interpreted as a medical diagnosis. In fact, I don't believe the concept of contagious mental illness is a part of the DSM and if you're trying to bait me into going off-topic, my opinion of the nebulous, unreproducable "science" of psychology is one of my weak points.

However as @LeahBee attested from the patient perspective and I can attest from the perspective of loving a person with a severe mental problem, being very close to it every day can be extremely psychologically taxing. Part of living someone is trying to understand how they feel and when someone legitimately thinks and feels in a nonfunctional way it can get inside your head. Eventually my ex acted out enough to go to prison where they compelled her to try medications until they arrived at a combination that seems to allow her to be functional now that she's been released but I still wouldn't be surprised to learn that she was dead.

I can't imagine Leah's parents neglected her out of malice.

You are being too kind to these people. But at the end of the day she is dead and they are responsible for her death. How is that not the case? Parents neglect their children all over the world, every day of the week and children die- sadly. This is one of most horrific cases many of us have ever come across. This woman, this child, merged into the sofa--- for God's sake, what is that? To the best of my recall she was covered with feces- what is that? how does anyone, let alone a parent see that every day, smell that every day and do nothing but let her rot and die. To my way of thinking there is malice involved in allowing such an unthinkable, horrendous and tortuous thing to happen to your child.

 

[dotr]

I’ve never been on this website. This is the first time I’ve replied to any article on here.

This I believe is due severe neglect and I do believe this can happen. It’s similar to the Turpin family neglect and sexual abuse case. They let her die for some reason. Only this is one is one child/ young woman. The Turpin parents I felt are mentally ill. Also Some parents never take their children to doctors. For check ups or anything..This is horrific what happen to Lacey.

Welcome to Ws @Kindone7446!
The circumstances of this poor young woman is so horrific and sad i can barely stand to read about her case, then came across this very similar one that occurred in the UK just recently..
Jan 19 2023

Parents 'killed girl, 16, found dead in squalor by letting her weight hit 23st'

Spina bifida sufferer Kaylea Titford was "fiercely independent" before lockdown, a court heard, and took part in high school PE lessons in her wheelchair before her weight soared

www.mirror.co.uk

''The parents of a 16-year-old girl found dead in a bed full of maggots killed the teen by allowing her weight to balloon to 23 stone during lockdown, a court heard today.

Schoolgirl Kaylea Titford was allegedly neglected to the point she became morbidly obese, living in a filthy room in the last days of her young life.''

 

[evilwise]

You are being too kind to these people. But at the end of the day she is dead and they are responsible for her death. How is that not the case? Parents neglect their children all over the world, every day of the week and children die- sadly. This is one of most horrific cases many of us have ever come across. This woman, this child, merged into the sofa--- for God's sake, what is that? To the best of my recall she was covered with feces- what is that? how does anyone, let alone a parent see that every day, smell that every day and do nothing but let her rot and die. To my way of thinking there is malice involved in allowing such an unthinkable, horrendous and tortuous thing to happen to your child.

Lacey (I called her Leah before - mea culpa) was 36 years old and unless I'm misremembering, she was never declared legally incompetent. It seems that, had she been under psychological care, she would certainly have been declared incompetent and in need of a legal guardian but she wasn't. That creates a pretty murky legal situation. haven't read the Louisiana laws about failing to render aid but I do know that Louisiana, being the only state who's constitution was based on French law, is legally unusual in many ways. In most states, if there even is a legal requirement to render aid to a person in medical distress the penalties are typically pretty minor but to my cursory evaluation it seems that is all her parents are technically guilty of.

The law typically assumes that adults in need of medical aid will seek it out and that if someone is actively preventing them from seeking it then they're guilty of much more serious crimes like kidnapping.

In the not too distant past, there was more of a local community and a neighbor or childhood friend would have presumably been concerned enough about her to check on and, being rebuffed by her parents, to ask for a police welfare check but it seems that culture is changing and moving away from that. Communities exist more online now but online communities have not developed so far as that every single person is automatically a member of one or more nor are they automatically part of a local community either and this is a crack in society wide enough for people to fall through.

What I hear from this community and others is essentially that they think justice would be for Lacey to retroactively, post mortem, to be declared to have been incompetent and post ipso facto for her parents to be found to have been her legal guardians. I can't say that I disagree that this would be a just way to try them and ask for their defense of their actions but I am doubtful that it is legally sound as it could create a precedent that makes people even less likely to attempt to help people in need for fear of later being punished for not doing enough to have helped them and instead everyone will just call social services on everyone else all the time, a system that we all here know is severely overtaxed as it is.

 

[ilovewings]

Lacey (I called her Leah before - mea culpa) was 36 years old and unless I'm misremembering, she was never declared legally incompetent. It seems that, had she been under psychological care, she would certainly have been declared incompetent and in need of a legal guardian but she wasn't. That creates a pretty murky legal situation. haven't read the Louisiana laws about failing to render aid but I do know that Louisiana, being the only state who's constitution was based on French law, is legally unusual in many ways. In most states, if there even is a legal requirement to render aid to a person in medical distress the penalties are typically pretty minor but to my cursory evaluation it seems that is all her parents are technically guilty of.

The law typically assumes that adults in need of medical aid will seek it out and that if someone is actively preventing them from seeking it then they're guilty of much more serious crimes like kidnapping.

In the not too distant past, there was more of a local community and a neighbor or childhood friend would have presumably been concerned enough about her to check on and, being rebuffed by her parents, to ask for a police welfare check but it seems that culture is changing and moving away from that. Communities exist more online now but online communities have not developed so far as that every single person is automatically a member of one or more nor are they automatically part of a local community either and this is a crack in society wide enough for people to fall through.

What I hear from this community and others is essentially that they think justice would be for Lacey to retroactively, post mortem, to be declared to have been incompetent and post ipso facto for her parents to be found to have been her legal guardians. I can't say that I disagree that this would be a just way to try them and ask for their defense of their actions but I am doubtful that it is legally sound as it could create a precedent that makes people even less likely to attempt to help people in need for fear of later being punished for not doing enough to have helped them and instead everyone will just call social services on everyone else all the time, a system that we all here know is severely overtaxed as it is.

Parents plead not guilty in death of daughter found on couch with feces around it; trial date rescheduled

The parents of a woman who died on a couch in their home pleaded not guilty Tuesday, July 19, at the East Feliciana Parish Courthouse.

www.wafb.com

They are facing a charge of 2nd degree murder-- we shall see what happens- hope they get nailed and thrown in prison for a good long while- better yet, let them rot on a couch, no food, no medical care-- well you get the picture

 

[ilovewings]

delete

 

[evilwise]

Parents plead not guilty in death of daughter found on couch with feces around it; trial date rescheduled

The parents of a woman who died on a couch in their home pleaded not guilty Tuesday, July 19, at the East Feliciana Parish Courthouse.

www.wafb.com

They are facing a charge of 2nd degree murder-- we shall see what happens- hope they get nailed and thrown in prison for a good long while- better yet, let them rot on a couch, no food, no medical care-- well you get the picture

Well, my knee jerk reaction to that is an assumption that a decent attorney could simply get that charge dismissed without ever even going to trial but since as I said I am completely unfamiliar with Louisiana's unusual legal system, I went ahead and took a look at their statutes (called code in my and I think most states)

Louisiana Laws - Louisiana State Legislature

www.legis.la.gov

Basically, as I see it and assuming Lacey's parents weren't providing her with drugs that directly caused her death the prosecution is going to have to prove one of two things

(1) When the offender has a specific intent to kill or to inflict great bodily harm - I think this one is maybe what a lot of angry people believe, that allowing someone to remain in a room alone for years constitutes specific intent to harm. I'm not a Louisiana judge but I think it wouldn't take very many appeals to find one who would disagree

or

(2) When the offender is engaged in the perpetration or attempted perpetration of a list of serious felonies, for example aggravated kidnapping. I haven't looked up the legal definition of kidnapping in Louisiana but I would assume it includes the use of force or threat of force. One of the other crimes listed is cruelty to juveniles, which Lacey wasn't and it somewhat surprisingly doesn't include a similar specification for incompetents. There might be some way to apply a similar interpretation but even still it would require a retroactive finding of Lacey to have been legally a "juvenile" in addition to meeting the Louisiana legal definition of "cruelty" - which it might. My instinct is that provision of the law was intended to allow negligent parents of juveniles to be charged with 2nd degree murder so perhaps this is the avenue prosecutors intend to pursue.

 

[Jawds78]

Are they going to claim they had medical conditions that made it too difficult to call for help or drive to a doctor to ask for help?

Exactly! If they can go to church, they sure as heck can make a phone call stating my daughter will not leave the couch. A simple phone call, maybe 2. They would have gotten help asap. And no call after she passed?! IMO, JMO

 

[ilovewings]

Exactly! If they can go to church, they sure as heck can make a phone call stating my daughter will not leave the couch. A simple phone call, maybe 2. They would have gotten help asap. And no call after she passed?! IMO, JMO

The thought just occurred to me: I believe they had a good reputation in their community and church so they did not want anyone to see their daughter in that condition on the couch cause they knew lots of questions would come up and they were most likely aware enough to recognize that child protective services could be called or some other agency regarding the condition of the daughter- they did not want that-only when she died they had no choice because they could not leave her rotting body in their home- dead. Just typing this makes me see red!

 

[iamnotagolem]

I have to wonder after the news came out if co-workers suddenly had an explanation for the distinct unpleasant smell they both had. There is no way they didn't smell. I'm sure they had gotten used to it and couldn't smell it anymore, but those around them could.

 

[Laughing]

Hhhmmm, @evilwise , your take on this is that Lacey Fletcher was legally an adult -- and other legal adults, including her parents, cannot be responsible for her actions.

I can see that, at least on paper.

iirc from media, Lacey Fletcher was involved in Special Services while attending public school? If so, there may be a presumption of guardianship past the age of majority.

Wonder if the parents sought guardianship?

I wonder if @LaLaw2000 is still around?

 

[evilwise]

Hhhmmm, @evilwise , your take on this is that Lacey Fletcher was legally an adult -- and other legal adults, including her parents, cannot be responsible for her actions.

I can see that, at least on paper.

iirc from media, Lacey Fletcher was involved in Special Services while attending public school? If so, there may be a presumption of guardianship past the age of majority.

Wonder if the parents sought guardianship?

I wonder if @LaLaw2000 is still around?

In looking closely at the letter of the second degree murder law, it is notable in its exception of cruelty to the handicapped while quite explicitly including "cruelty to juveniles". One might more typically expect a law like that to focus on parent/guardian relationships but it seems to me that in the state of Louisiana anyone over the age of 17 who is "intentionally or criminally negligent" to someone under the age of 17 that dies as a result can face murder charges but a situation like this seems clearly excluded from that section.

The more I think about it the more I suspect that prosecutors believe they can prove specific intent to kill or inflict great bodily harm. Perhaps they made some kind of statement to police along the lines of "we knew she was going to die in there" in their initial grief/shock/whatever that the day had finally come or perhaps even something more callous than that.

On the other hand there's the possibility that prosecutors filed charges they know they can't actually argue for with the intent of intimidating the accused into accepting a plea bargain for a lesser but still serious charge like first degree manslaughter. Prosecutors like to do that, it's a lot less work than actually making and arguing a case in court.

 

[RaspberryMama]

But at the end of the day she is dead and they are responsible for her death. How is that not the case? Parents neglect their children all over the world, every day of the week and children die- sadly. This is one of most horrific cases many of us have ever come across. This woman, this child, merged into the sofa--- for God's sake, what is that? To the best of my recall she was covered with feces- what is that? how does anyone, let alone a parent see that every day, smell that every day and do nothing but let her rot and die. To my way of thinking there is malice involved in allowing such an unthinkable, horrendous and tortuous thing to happen to your child

Some people, even some parents, are wired in such a way that they take anything and everything in their life as regarding themselves - revolving around them actually. I had parents like this, but to a much lesser degree... or at least my circumstances never devolved anywhere close to Lacey's level.

But I went through some *stuff* in my childhood and teenage years. And I acted out, was depressed and withdrawn... I needed help honestly (and since have gotten it, thankfully); but instead of showing concern for my well-being, my parents were offended at my disrespectful attitude towards them and it became all about how I was behaving and embarrassing them and being mean to them... and my issues were entirely overlooked in the issues I was causing for them.

And anyone who knows my parents on a lesser level than family sees them as good Christian people and good parents. But living in a state of being responsible for the emotions of one's parents is a tough way to grow up.

I just imagine a bit of that "why is she doing this to us" and "why is she treating us this way" kind of attitude in Lacey's care / lack of care.

They may have thought of their actions as tough love for a while - hoping she would "straighten up" (behave normally again). When she didn't, it remained all about them and how they suffered because of her and less about what was right for her.

Poor Lacey.

 

[TheLoadedGoat]

Louisiana parents charged in daughter's death get new trial date

The trial date for a husband and wife charged with the murder of their 36-year-old daughter who was found dead on a couch has been moved to June.

wgno.com

The trial for Clay and Sheila Fletcher was previously scheduled for Feb. 6, 2023, but will now be on June 19, 2023, according to East Feliciana Parish District Attorney Sam D’Aquilla. He said the couple will make a court appearance on

Feb. 22, 2023,

to discuss legal concerns before the trial. East Feliciana Parish District Attorney Sam D’Aquilla says he will not offer a plea deal but no way do they want to sit through testimony describing what Lacey went through.
Will anyone be there to cover it?

 

[Dotta]

no way do they want to sit through testimony describing what Lacey went through.

I don't understand.
Does that mean the parents don't want to attend their own trial?

 

[Megnut]

I don't understand.
Does that mean the parents don't want to attend their own trial?

They should be front and center. I know of a couch they can sit on.

JMO

 

[Marysmith]

I don't understand.
Does that mean the parents don't want to attend their own trial?

I guess it means they can plead guilty or go through a trial?

 

[ilovewings]

Louisiana parents charged in daughter's death get new trial date

The trial date for a husband and wife charged with the murder of their 36-year-old daughter who was found dead on a couch has been moved to June.

wgno.com

The trial for Clay and Sheila Fletcher was previously scheduled for Feb. 6, 2023, but will now be on June 19, 2023, according to East Feliciana Parish District Attorney Sam D’Aquilla. He said the couple will make a court appearance on

Feb. 22, 2023,

to discuss legal concerns before the trial. East Feliciana Parish District Attorney Sam D’Aquilla says he will not offer a plea deal but no way do they want to sit through testimony describing what Lacey went through.
Will anyone be there to cover it?

what??? "no way do they want to sit through testimony describing what Lacey went through"
well now isn't that too bad? That should read WHAT HER PARENTS PUT HER THROUGH-

I hope the judge does not allow them to avoid sitting in court and listening to testimony against them- that would be way too much for me!

 

[TheLoadedGoat]

what??? "no way do they want to sit through testimony describing what Lacey went through"
well now isn't that too bad? That should read WHAT HER PARENTS PUT HER THROUGH-

I hope the judge does not allow them to avoid sitting in court and listening to testimony against them- that would be way too much for me!

My apologies! The quote was: "East Feliciana Parish District Attorney Sam D’Aquilla says he will not offer a plea deal" and I added my personal opinion of "but no way do they want to sit through testimony describing what Lacey went through. Will anyone be there to cover it?"
The Fletchers are not talking. We can only speculate. But I do not see this going to trial.

​

 

[ilovewings]

My apologies! The quote was: "East Feliciana Parish District Attorney Sam D’Aquilla says he will not offer a plea deal" and I added my personal opinion of "but no way do they want to sit through testimony describing what Lacey went through. Will anyone be there to cover it?"
The Fletchers are not talking. We can only speculate. But I do not see this going to trial.

​

I hope it goes to trial so everyone can see what these two so called parents did to their child. However, depending on circumstances, there could be a plea, but too often when there is a plea deal, the charge gets dropped (like in the Heidi Broussard case and many others)-- and the perps winds up with a watered down sentence--- which does not yield proper justice for the decedent or the families of the victims.