LA - Marie Smothers, 87, shot to death by 8yo boy, Slaughter, 22 Aug 2013

[animlzrule]

I don't want to fuel a gun debate in this thread, but nor would it be right to have misinformation posted unchallenged. So...

Those studies, particularly the daddy of them, Kellerman, have been thoroughly debunked, for a multitude of reasons.

One of the most obvious problems is that correlation =/= causation.

Of course homes in dangerous neighborhoods are more likely to have guns *and* their member are more likely to be shot by someone. Having a gun in the house doesn't cause their deaths.

The second and most critical factor is that these studies do not count all the violence that is stopped because a gun is known to be in the house or simply brandished when attackers are attempting to enter, as in the case of my own family and myself.

This story is tragic, but it happened because people were irresponsible on many levels. Simply "having a gun in the house" isn't one of them. IMO


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Debunked? No. Oppositional spin and rebuttal funded by the NRA and gun lobby? Absolutely. Look, just like the anti-vaxxers, no amount of scientific research is going to convince gun enthusiasts that they are wrong and are playing a dangerous game with their loved ones lives. Until they kill someone they love. (Hopefully. There's a member of the brain trust whose 3 year old was shot and killed at home by the family weapon this week and daddy was on the news the same day bleating about the 2nd amendment) This woman would be alive today if there had not been a gun in that home. There's no rational way to dispute that. These studies have not been "debunked". They've been spun. Big difference.

 

[Muffet]

Im sure good people can disagree, so no hard feelings, ok? FTR though, the arguments i and others made here, e.g., that associations - the very word used in the studies - don't equate to causations isn't spin.

And some these opposing studies were funded by the Brady group and/or others, so we all have to use our knowledge of statistics and logic to filter the spin on both sides.

I agree she wouldn't have been shot without the gun being *irresponsibly* kept in the house, assuming all is as it appears. I said simply having the gun in the house wasn't the cause.


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[Muffet]

http://theadvocate.com/home/6860976-125/investigators-say-shooter-8-played

Sheriff’s deputies said the shooter and victim are related, but withheld the exact relationship to shield the child’s identity.

The district attorney said the boy’s parents live in East Baton Rouge Parish and the boy lived with the relative in order to enroll in an East Feliciana Parish school.

The shooting was reported to the state Department of Children and Family Services, McKey said.

D’Aquilla said the parents have been ordered to appear in 20th Judicial District Court on Monday for a judge to determine if the boy and his parents should receive help through the Families in Need of Services assistance program.

I'm bothered by the fact that my first, thoughtless, reaction to this story was hope that the family was already badly broken, because if not, the lasting devastation to all survivors is unbearable to think about.

We have too many broken people and families.


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[LJKaust]

Debunked? No. Oppositional spin and rebuttal funded by the NRA and gun lobby? Absolutely. Look, just like the anti-vaxxers, no amount of scientific research is going to convince gun enthusiasts that they are wrong and are playing a dangerous game with their loved ones lives. Until they kill someone they love. (Hopefully. There's a member of the brain trust whose 3 year old was shot and killed at home by the family weapon this week and daddy was on the news the same day bleating about the 2nd amendment) This woman would be alive today if there had not been a gun in that home. There's no rational way to dispute that. These studies have not been "debunked". They've been spun. Big difference.

Another one

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...y-alive-shot-head-apartment-article-1.1435778

In the US, you are supposed to have your guns locked up, yes? If you are one of the responsible ones and store your gun correctly, then what use are they when someone wakes you up, waving a gun around in your face?

 

[Nova]

Poetic justice???? What did this old woman ever do that deserved being shot in the head? She had a gun?....

I thought I was quite clear: she left her gun where an 8-year-old could get to it.

I don't believe in capital punishment under any circumstances, so, no, of course I don't think the grandmother deserved to die. Please look up the term "poetic justice"; it doesn't mean literal justice.

But if you are leaving guns laying around based on the assumption that 3-year-olds "know" not to touch them, I sadly suspect you'll get your own thread here sooner or later.

 

[Nova]

Another one

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...y-alive-shot-head-apartment-article-1.1435778

In the US, you are supposed to have your guns locked up, yes? If you are one of the responsible ones and store your gun correctly, then what use are they when someone wakes you up, waving a gun around in your face?

If you wake up to a gun in your face, it's already too late to reach for a firearm, even one on the bedside table.

***

But just to be clear: the issue in this case is that the 8-year-old had access to a gun. Private gun ownership is a different issue entirely. I have deliberately avoided conflating the two issues.

 

[LJKaust]

Ah, I will never be able to get my head around this, as it is completely alien to me. I think I should just avoid threads like this

 

[FrayedKnot]

Don't want to be a victim of a criminal who breaks into your home? An excellent place to start is having a gun in your home. Just ask those who have protected their family with one.

Can't argue with the people who are alive today because they were armed and protected themselves.

This is not about the great gun debate.

This is about being responsible gun owners.

There is no reason why she should not have had that gun. But she should have been more responsible with it.

Luckily, only SHE died from her own poor judgement.

Next time, maybe another Sandy Hook. This sick **** NEVER ends and yet it is ALWAYS defended. It's just crap. Total crap. I am mad as hell and sick and tired of it.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I'm bothered by the fact that my first, thoughtless, reaction to this story was hope that the family was already badly broken, because if not, the lasting devastation to all survivors is unbearable to think about.

We have too many broken people and families.


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And of course, the guns help TREMENDOUSLY.

 

[FrayedKnot]

http://theadvocate.com/home/6860976-125/investigators-say-shooter-8-played

McKey said Marie Smothers, 87, was killed by a single shot from a Colt .38-caliber Detective Special revolver detectives believe belonged to Smothers.

He said the Sheriff’s Office is withholding information on where the gun was kept in the mobile home where Smothers lived in Country Breeze Mobile Home Park on La. 67 near Hockaday Road.

A man who answered the phone number listed for Smothers’ address and said he was a relative of Smothers insisted that the shooting was not intentional.

“It was an accident,” the man said.

It wasn't an accident according to the latest police statements. Luckily an 8 year old had access to a gun, so YAY! You know, except for the dead lady.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Except for it would have been much harder for that 8 year old to kill great granny with, say, a fruit roll up. But yeah, guns are totally safe.

Exactly right, as if somehow an item which was designed for killing as it's sole purpose is OK to keep loaded with kids in the house, or even many adults actually if we're honest about it. I wonder how many times during a fight the old gun is pulled out to make a point and we never hear about it?

If there weren't so many guns in the hands of the wrong people we wouldn't need as many guns in the hands of the right people, which unfortunately find their way into the hands of the wrong people, so more people feel like they need a gun for protection, and around and around and around it goes. I wonder where it will all end?

Oh and arm the teachers? Wrong way, go back.

 

[i.b.nora]

The East Feliciano Parish School District has a rating of 67 out of 69. That would be 67th worst school district in the entire State. East Baton Rouge has a slightly higher ranking, 65 I think it said.

From this website:
http://www.usa.com/school-district-2200600.htm

 

[Mrs G Norris]

How obvious is the bias in focusing on the video game in this article. Yes, games kill people, guns are awesome.

http://theadvocate.com/home/6860976-125/investigators-say-shooter-8-played

 

[Harmony 2]

The circular debate about gun control or private gun ownership stops right here... please steer clear of those topics and stay focused on the case at hand...

 

[FrayedKnot]

Respectfully, the subject IS a CHILD who had easy access to an effing GUN and blew granny's head off. But I see your point. Sort of.

Not much else to discuss if guns are off the table. She died from having her head shot off. By an 8 year old.

 

[ArianeEmory]

How obvious is the bias in focusing on the video game in this article. Yes, games kill people, guns are awesome.

http://theadvocate.com/home/6860976-125/investigators-say-shooter-8-played

Not totally seeing what you mean--the article says in the headline that it's about video games, then presents two sides of the issue, with expert opinions on both sides. Compared to a lot of the "journalism" I see in these cases, it was pretty well-written and unbiased.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

If the child shot grandma in the back of the head while she was watching telly and it was intentional, that's a bit scary hey? I wouldn't be too cool about being around that kid etc, I actually think it would be better if he could be dealt with legally, I'm not suggesting he goes into custody, but going into the system for evaluation and treatment might not be a bad thing, and it should actually be a requirement before he returns to school.

Considering his age, and there will not be charges is there anything else the state can do to evaluate him for dangerousness and keep an eye on him?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

The East Feliciano Parish School District has a rating of 67 out of 69. That would be 67th worst school district in the entire State. East Baton Rouge has a slightly higher ranking, 65 I think it said.

From this website:
http://www.usa.com/school-district-2200600.htm

Yes. They are horrible.

I live in EBR but our town/community pulled out and formed our own district.

We are #1 in the state now.

But living in Slaughter to go to a particular school in East Fel may have been choosing the lesser of two evils so to speak. Depending on what area of Baton Rouge the parents live in.

JMO from knowing the areas very well.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Yes. They are horrible.

I live in EBR but our town/community pulled out and formed our own district.

We are #1 in the state now.

But living in Slaughter to go to a particular school in East Fel may have been choosing the lesser of two evils so to speak. Depending on what area of Baton Rouge the parents live in.

JMO from knowing the areas very well.

This summer I met some amazing and dedicated teachers who CHOSE to go to the parishes in Acadiana and teach. Not for the money , but for the children. They often bring food for these kids because they have no lunch nor lunch money. They buy the supplies on the list because they otherwise would not have materials needed to do school work.

These teachers are my HEROES. The families and situations they encounter are awful. And they do it every day because it is what is right.

 

[mck16]

Luckily, only SHE died from her own poor judgement.

Next time, maybe another Sandy Hook. This sick **** NEVER ends and yet it is ALWAYS defended. It's just crap. Total crap. I am mad as hell and sick and tired of it.

Oh dear. I hope you don't own a gun. jmo