Lamps Lamp Lamps Quiz

[strach304]

I heard at the very first something was missing, but never heard it was a lamp! WOW. There was blood on one lamp, as stated in the warrant. Why would he dispose of the other lamp if he left the other one with blood? Oh, because the one left with blood on it was cast off blood, and the one that was missing was a weapon and had broken?

Anything except logic that led you to that belief Strach?

Personal experience

 

[scandi]

Oh Strach, I would hate to ever see you in a life experience like that! I am so glad you are OK.

Were you the one weilding the lamp? Actually I will admit I did strike my 1st hubby over the ear with the hot iron I was using after he hit my young son. Got his ear, and that stopped all that nonscense. I was actually ironing at the time.

 

[strach304]

You betcha! :woohoo:
People used to ask me "is he really as nice as he seems?" and the "oh, he has such big beautiful blue bedroom eyes"
:croc:
oops, messing up Sami's thread :blushing: sorry

 

[Samiya]

You betcha! :woohoo:
People used to ask me "is he really as nice as he seems?" and the "oh, he has such big beautiful blue bedroom eyes"
:croc:
oops, messing up Sami's thread :blushing: sorry

**ahem**

You're allowed to mess up my thread

I'm busy writing up some stuff in Word to post in this thread

Hope ya got him a beauty!

I got my ex with a babies bottle. Full and right between the eyes from the other side of the loungeroom...lol guess he found out the hard way that not only do I have perfect vision, I have perfect aim.

 

[strach304]

We're a bunch of bada$$es, no? Thankfully they're all ex's and we're still here to tell about it.

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

We're a bunch of bada$$es, no? Thankfully they're all ex's and we're still here to tell about it.

Lollll strach ....

Hi Sami - Yes to all and .... for your second "D", we don't have built-in lamps!

 

[scandi]

What a great threat Sami! And your idea about the lamp, sounds so plausible.

Shades of Deja Vu. This makes me wonder if Jason followed the SP case, what with the lamp or its cord, the husbands old faithful dog, the purse and murder in the middle of the night, Hmmmmmmm

 

[Samiya]

The point of this thread.

If a lamp is missing and it was on a bedside table, chances are is that it's cord would've been pulled from the wall and moved or upturned the bedside table which wouldn't be unusual in a homicide case, but it's cord may have left a mark in the wall as the lamp was swung to hit Michelle. You can control an item but you can't control any cordlike substance attached to it.

Was there one lamp or two?

One lamp was mentioned as having blood splatters (this is where blood pattern interpretation comes in). No mention of another lamp. The mentioning of one lamp doesn't necessarily mean that there was only one lamp or that one might be missing. The location of the lamp in the room would tell more (as will the patterning of the spatters on the wall).

If there are two lamps, one might not have been covered in spatters due to the perp being between the point of impact and the 'clean' lamp (this is also one of the reasons why I said early on that I believe she was found on the floor and that the attack may have occurred while she was out of the bed. The other reason was because Meredith couldn't roll Michelle over. If Michelle was on the bed, Meredith would've been able to roll her, RM or not).

If Michelle was attacked in her bed til her death, there would've been blood splatters on all pillows (first and secondary + spatters), the wall behind the bed and if there were two lamps, spatters would've been on both. Depending on how the weapon was swung, there would've been spatters on the roof (if swinging overhead, vertical) or arced (if swung around..horizontally) or even both. The amount of times she was hit can also be told in splatters as well as markings on her skull and other areas of her body.

Blood spatters are 'directional' they tell which direction, they came from and can also tell what 'speed' they travelled at to get there, as well as whether they were from the attack wounds on the victim or from the instrument used.

The kinds of weapons used also have their own tell tale signs in blood, as do wounds. Eg; a severed artery will spurt and arc.

Blood spatters are also 'positioning'. They can also give a great estimate of where the perp was standing due to a patterning of 'back spatters' if blood from the attack itself sprayed onto the perp and in the area behind him.

Now for Michelle. I only mention this because of the person who in ctv decided to post that '10 blows to the head' and because someone asked about Rigor Mortis here.

The first hit by a blunt instrument, even a hammer, will not at most times kill a person outright. There are certain areas of the head where this can happen but the perp would have to know those points. So from day one it was clear to me that Michelle suffered greatly (a distressing fact). It is also obvious that Michelle lived for a time possibly afterwards. It is true, for anyone wondering, that once the heart stops beating so does the blood stop pumping around the body. It begins Livor Mortis within minutes, then after around 2 to 3 hours Rigor Mortis begins and Algor Mortis (cooling) has begun by then as well.

The heart does not always stop beating first in death. Sometimes the lungs stop breathing first or the brain dies (or part of) and can no longer tell the body's organs what to do, beat, breathe etc.

A bit long and I'd better hit post before it becomes an epic but now you know where I was going with the quiz.

The 12 to 6am timeframe is within the estimate of a Prelim Autopsy....it makes me giggle that they're speculating as to why that time frame was chosen in which to ask if anyone saw anything. A 6 hour timeframe is not unusual. She may have been attacked at 12am and not actually died until around 6 am.

 

[Samiya]

And while I'm up playing alone.......

The suggestion of Meredith that Michelle was cold, twisted and 'heavy' means that Michelle's body was between 3/4 and full Rigor Mortis with Lividity AND Algor well set in, ...and only a small way into RM, Meredith would've been able to roll her over as Michelle's legs from her hip joints down would've straightened. I would think that the first area of Michelle's body touched by Meredith to be her upper arm when she tried to roll her, then her wrist as she tried to get a pulse.

On my blog (which I haven't posted a url to because it's not caught up with everything yet) I have estimated between 11:15pm Thursday and 3:35am Friday. This is based on the above in red.

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Hey Sami - the above two posts are great reading and most educational! Thank you!!! This para really stood out to me:

The 12 to 6am timeframe is within the estimate of a Prelim Autopsy....it makes me giggle that they're speculating as to why that time frame was chosen in which to ask if anyone saw anything. A 6 hour timeframe is not unusual. She may have been attacked at 12am and not actually died until around 6 am.

And also your comments about the blood spatter on the pillows. Didn't even think of that - which shows how valuable posters are here at W/S, bringing all details to the surface. Once we get the autopsy report, I'll bet much of what you wrote will dovetail.

You know I didn't stop to think about one weapon; not just a hammer (and/or something else)... but you've also brought in this info about the lamp ---> and the blood on the lamp. It's a pity we haven't got more details on this, or what the lamps looked like or weighed.

Could the blood mentioned have been spatter - or d'you think the lamp was also used???

Good stuff, Sami!

 

[Samiya]

Hey Sami - the above two posts are great reading and most educational! Thank you!!! This para really stood out to me:

The 12 to 6am timeframe is within the estimate of a Prelim Autopsy....it makes me giggle that they're speculating as to why that time frame was chosen in which to ask if anyone saw anything. A 6 hour timeframe is not unusual. She may have been attacked at 12am and not actually died until around 6 am.

And also your comments about the blood spatter on the pillows. Didn't even think of that - which shows how valuable posters are here at W/S, bringing all details to the surface. Once we get the autopsy report, I'll bet much of what you wrote will dovetail.

You know I didn't stop to think about one weapon; not just a hammer (and/or something else)... but you've also brought in this info about the lamp ---> and the blood on the lamp. It's a pity we haven't got more details on this, or what the lamps looked like or weighed.

Could the blood mentioned have been spatter - or d'you think the lamp was also used???

Good stuff, Sami!

The blood on the lamp was referred to as spatter, same as blood on the walls. That part was a small 'synopsis' of the crime scene for the purpose of explaining why a SW was needed.

Note also, that some of those warrants are not for what they initially appear to be for. Where they say that no item has been confiscated, it means that they are already in posession of that item and the SW is needed to physically and/or digitally search those items that are listed. The items themselves would've been confiscated prior under another search warrant of in regards to the premises listed.

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

The blood on the lamp was referred to as spatter, same as blood on the walls. That part was a small 'synopsis' of the crime scene for the purpose of explaining why a SW was needed.

Note also, that some of those warrants are not for what they initially appear to be for. Where they say that no item has been confiscated, it means that they are already in posession of that item and the SW is needed to physically and/or digitally search those items that are listed. The items themselves would've been confiscated prior under another search warrant of in regards to the premises listed.

Aaah, you're back - and I'm about to go, lol. Thanks, Sami. I felt there may be more S/W's we're not privvy to in total at this stage: what you say here makes sense. The house was sealed off for quite a while, so much examining had to be done in situ, I assume. I remember from Laci's case, LE took 99 bags of evidence - so this one was a thorough job.

I know Cassie was in and out - I wondered if she'd put her hands on the walls and smeared blood (or on the bedside tabe, etc). Would the spatter still leave it's original 'landing mark' if Cassie did touch anything later that morning?

Too sad to consider that a long torturous death may have been experienced by MY. Defies human logic, eh?

 

[Samiya]

Aaah, you're back - and I'm about to go, lol. Thanks, Sami. I felt there may be more S/W's we're not privvy to in total at this stage: what you say here makes sense. The house was sealed off for quite a while, so much examining had to be done in situ, I assume. I remember from Laci's case, LE took 99 bags of evidence - so this one was a thorough job.

I know Cassie was in and out - I wondered if she'd put her hands on the walls and smeared blood (or on the bedside tabe, etc). Would the spatter still leave it's original 'landing mark' if Cassie did touch anything later that morning?

Too sad to consider that a long torturous death may have been experienced by MY. Defies human logic, eh?

If Cassidy woke up several hours later, there would be a blood ring with a slide depending on how hard she put her hand on the wall of slid her hand on the wall. For Cassidy to track blood through the house it would have to be relatively fresh....within an hour or so. After that the tracked blood would have evidence of congealment, clot like features tracked with uncongealed blood.

For me, if Cassidy had awoken later, her concern would've been her mom. Any hand prints or smears she would've made would be on exit and re-entry to the bedroom.

As heartbreaking as the consideration that she was/came in the room during, at the end of the attack, or upon hearing the murderer exit the house it is something definitely to be considered as a possibility.

1 This would not have been a silent crime
2 Michelle would've screamed or cried at some point or even begged him to stop.
3 The sound of a body hitting the floor isn't exactly quiet,especially if she hit something while collapsing to the floor....the 'there's blood on the bed' may fit there too.
4 Now that I've studied the warrants better along with the time frame, it is possible that before she died Michelle could've called out to Cassidy to make sure and see for herself that she was ok.

If it was Jason....there are still well over 20 possible scenarios.
With someone else.....even more. I've already gone on the attempted sexual assault of Michelle angle and a Paedophile or kidnapping with Cassidy as the target. Both ended up right back to square one.....Jason

 

[close_enough]

very VERY interesting stuff Sami!....hmmm, something else 'hit me' while reading this.....

wonder if Michelle grabbed a lamp, during the struggle, & hit JY with it, & that's why a lamp MIGHT be missing????....maybe she got in one good whack with a lamp, at him....obviously not enough to really hurt him, but who knows??...maybe enough to cut him, so he had to take that lamp with him???

we know that ONE lamp had blood on it...could be the weapon, could simply be Michelle's blood spatter/splatter on it.....

real interesting....Meredith said the room just didn't look like it normally does....maybe at that point in the call she just didn't realize that a lamp was missing......

gosh Sami....lots more to think about now, hmmmmm

 

[Bee Charmer]

What a great threat Sami! And your idea about the lamp, sounds so plausible.

Shades of Deja Vu. This makes me wonder if Jason followed the SP case, what with the lamp or its cord, the husbands old faithful dog, the purse and murder in the middle of the night, Hmmmmmmm

I am astonished at items that are the same as in the
peterson case. All we need now is an ole wheezie running around with
an ironing board.....lol

O/T - Mrs. Rocha was on LKL last night, here is the transcript for
anyone who missed it.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0612/12/lkl.01.html

 

[raisincharlie]

And here I thought it would be something as easy as - only one lamp, she had already kicked his sorry backside out and into another room...:crazy:

 

[Taximom]

I wonder what kind of alarm clock they used. If she had already set it, it might have gone off in the morning and been loud enough to wake Cassidy if not turned off right away. Ours turns off automatically after being on "alarm" for an hour or so.

There wasn't a clock listed on the warrant, so I have to assume that it didn't "STOP" at the time of the murder. Rats.

I used to have my wedding pictures on the bedside table next to my lamp. I had to move them up higher when the babies started mouthing them. Anyway, I can see where MY's framed pics might have been moved/broken or spattered in a struggle, if she had them by that lamp. Maybe that's why they were taken.

It's so sad to think about MY's last moments. I bet she was just thinking of Cassidy the whole time.

I watched a documentary about Christie Brinkley recently and she said all she could think about during her helicopter accident was her daughter, Alexa. She just kept repeating her daughter's name over and over and willed herself to stay alive for Alexa.

Sorry to go O/T.

 

[Samiya]

And here I thought it would be something as easy as - only one lamp, she had already kicked his sorry backside out and into another room...:crazy:

Lol sorry hon I usually work that stuff on my computer but thought I'd share for once.

From what I can tell of Michelle, from reports and just looking at her photo, she would have been a pretty assertive woman who knew what she wanted in each stepping stone of her life and got it...if she wanted him out I think it'd be out the door, not to another room. She is so happy in every photo that I don't think she would tolerate infidelity from Jason imo. And I certainly would be surprised if she was playing around. Her life seemed to revolve around her family, especially Cassidy.

 

[SewingDeb]

A Do you have a bedside lamp? Yes
B Is it on a bedside table or cupboard? Bedside table

C Do you have a husband/wife/partner? Yes

D Do your partners side of the bed have a small table or cupboard? Yes

E Is there a lamp on it too? Yes
D If your lamps are built in to the headboard would one or both of you have a lamp on your sides of the bed? N/A
So in summary...

How many bedside lamps are in YOUR master bedroom? Two

 

[raisincharlie]

Lol sorry hon I usually work that stuff on my computer but thought I'd share for once.

From what I can tell of Michelle, from reports and just looking at her photo, she would have been a pretty assertive woman who knew what she wanted in each stepping stone of her life and got it...if she wanted him out I think it'd be out the door, not to another room. She is so happy in every photo that I don't think she would tolerate infidelity from Jason imo. And I certainly would be surprised if she was playing around. Her life seemed to revolve around her family, especially Cassidy.

Just being my usual off the wall self luv. The thing that gets me the most and has me studying alot, is if one looks at this - they knew each other for a long time before the marriage. If the insiders are correct about JY, how he changed and the reputation he developed- I can't figure why such a woman as Michelle would have bothered with him - let alone marry him in the first place. She had to be aware of this (again assuming the insiders aren't blowing smoke) - I just can't figure that at all. It just doesn't compute for me.

Really thanks for the differing scenarios - when it comes to the gory details I am pretty worthless with respect to those thoughts. My imagination draws a blank when trying to reconstruct how things may have occurred - so I appreciate the theories. I tried really hard with the Vitale case to reconstruct in my mind how that happened - when listening to the DA's closing I found how very far from correct I was. I think my mind is actually very unwilling to go there.

ETA - I am hoping additional warrants will be released by the media - we certainly have seen but a small portion of the warrant related to the house itself.