Laura Babcock Murder Trial - *GUILTY*

[Grey-St]

I don't have much sympathy for MB. I agree that she probably didn't think her son could do any wrong. She likely knew nothing of what he got up to in his day-to-day life and he presented a certain face and image to her. As long as her pay cheque was rolling in and they had regular dinners or whatever, all was right with her world. She's culpable in some way but not provable, and probably less provable than CN. When it came to that trailer in her driveway, she didn't do anything. She texted DM a couple of times and got no answer. She ran to a hotel and sucked back wine with CN, then wiped down prints with CN, THEN she went to the house at Maple Gate and collected cash and papers, didn't she? I'm not saying it is easy to admit or accept that ones's son is guilty of something so heinous but she knew and she wanted to save herself and/or protect him. She knew enough at that point and did nothing. I have to say, at least in the awful Derek Saretzky case (Alberta), when the parents sensed his involvement, they went straight to LE. The same for Douglas Garland's sister who also contacted LE.

Yes, I'm with you on your analysis of the situation. I couldn't agree more actually. I was just speculating as to why she's not in court.

 

[Grey-St]

Yes, that could be her. And I say this as someone who has seen her on several occasions including in the witness box at Millard's Rowbotham application.

The face of the woman in the photo is definitely fuller than Burns's face is now but that could be due to weight loss or just an unflattering shot.

Where is that picture from? Apologies if I missed an earlier post explaining its origin.

RBBM.

When and what was this, ABro?

 

[swedie]

Just an observation - the jurors have been deliberating until 8 pm each evening but stopped deliberations an hour early this evening. I don't know if we can read anything into that or not............

It's Friday night!! Don't we all like to get off work early on a Friday?! JK.

 

[Grey-St]

It's Friday night!! Don't we all like to get off work early on a Friday?! JK.

My goodness. This jury deserves a care package sent up to their corridor of hotel rooms. A basket of 12 bottles of wine, and 12 glasses.

 

[swedie]

Yes, that could be her. And I say this as someone who has seen her on several occasions including in the witness box at Millard's Rowbotham application.

The face of the woman in the photo is definitely fuller than Burns's face is now but that could be due to weight loss or just an unflattering shot.

Where is that picture from? Apologies if I missed an earlier post explaining its origin.

It's in this Mob Reporter video at the 5:00 minute mark. HTH.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfO7B9rgltE&index=24&list=PLhn5mdcBuBd4YSTd84K1qV0avhzWu6Wz7

Oh and also ABro, are you able to divulge if you know, what the small claims case was about that MB attended to on behalf of DM, shortly after DM was arrested? Was that to do with the stolen Harley Davidson? TIA and MOO.

 

[BeKind_BeWell]

Yes, I'm with you on your analysis of the situation. I couldn't agree more actually. I was just speculating as to why she's not in court.

Sorry, I meant to agree with you. You are right on why she is trying to hide. I would never blame one family member for the ills of another family member, but her actions during the Bosma search speak volumes. While she has a right to privacy, I do think she is guilty of more than we know.

 

[ABro]

It's in this Mob Reporter video at the 5:00 minute mark. HTH.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfO7B9rgltE&index=24&list=PLhn5mdcBuBd4YSTd84K1qV0avhzWu6Wz7

Oh and also ABro, are you able to divulge if you know, what the small claims case was about that MB attended to on behalf of DM, shortly after DM was arrested? Was that to do with the stolen Harley Davidson? TIA and MOO.

Thanks, Swedie. I need to watch that video.

The small claims case was a former tenant at Riverside, who claims Millard unfairly evicted her and stole her things.

The court ruled it did not have jurisdiction and that the tenant should have gone to the Landlord Tenant Board, but by then it was too late, filing deadlines had long past.

Burns then tried to get lawyers' costs but the court did not grant them. I believe the tenant was ordered to reimburse the defendants $100.

 

[Spartygirl]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews 2m2 minutes ago

No verdict tonight at #LauraBabcock murder trial. Jury back tomorrow.

Ugh...finally done with work for the week and kept trying to pop in here periodically for updates!! I am feeling confident that the jury is reviewing and discussing everything and even though I am impatient, time is on our side.

 

[ABro]

RBBM.

When and what was this, ABro?

Early May. I am in the midst of preparing an article about it.

 

[swedie]

I think MB specially, is likely so full of shame that it's paralyzing, and she doesn't want to show her face. She also knows what she did during the TB investigation, and doesn't want to deal with the scrutiny. Also there's the WM murder, the possibility of being questioned on that by reporters might keep her away, too.

I think also, there's the theory that both mother's likely know deep down that they are guilty, or will be found guilty. To be in the courtroom while spectators are elated, may be difficult for them.

I've also wondered: although I get the very strong impression that MB was the type of mother who believed her son could do no wrong, protected him during the investigation, was wrapped around his finger, etc, maybe now she's become unclenched? I wonder if she's stopped supporting him in certain ways? From what I have picked up on, MS seems to look more put together in this trial than DM. Family members usually bring the defendants proper clothing to wear in court. It sounds like DM with his oversized blazer, puts together his outfits from a donation box at the jail labelled "court clothes". JMO.

I believe more times than not, it's the defense lawyer or the assistant who is responsible for their client's attire. TD is old school and has dressed MS as a preppy school boy. The neat haircut and clean shaven, that would have been TD's recommendation to MS. DM...he does as he pleases no matter what anyone in authority suggests. MOO.

 

[Just4TB]

I don't have much sympathy for MB. I agree that she probably didn't think her son could do any wrong. She likely knew nothing of what he got up to in his day-to-day life and he presented a certain face and image to her. As long as her pay cheque was rolling in and they had regular dinners or whatever, all was right with her world. She's culpable in some way but not provable, and probably less provable than CN. When it came to that trailer in her driveway, she didn't do anything. She texted DM a couple of times and got no answer. She ran to a hotel and sucked back wine with CN, then wiped down prints with CN, THEN she went to the house at Maple Gate and collected cash and papers, didn't she? I'm not saying it is easy to admit or accept that ones's son is guilty of something so heinous but she knew and she wanted to save herself and/or protect him. She knew enough at that point and did nothing. I have to say, at least in the awful Derek Saretzky case (Alberta), when the parents sensed his involvement, they went straight to LE. The same for Douglas Garland's sister who also contacted LE.

On the one side, MB definitely used very poor judgement, and her moral fiber was lacking. She also seemed quite cozy around CN, who we now know, was a totally morally depraved person. The financial games after DM was in prison show where MB's heart was at.

But, I do feel that there was likely some denial at play... her little lamb... how could it possibly be true? The question I have, today, knowing what she must know now... is she in contact with CN? Has she admitted that her son DM is a psychopathic serial killer?

My sympathy is reserved for DM's primary victims and their families, yet a part if me sees MB being also another victim, even if she is partially to blame for her own shortcomings.
One thing is certain... there are no positives coming out of this entire debacle, it's such a burden on the families of the victims, and a huge waste of many lives.

 

[palisadesk]

Any ideas why families wouldn't join verdict watch?. I think if it was my family I would?

I'm guessing, but suspect it has something to do with whether you (the parents/family members) believe the accused to be innocent. Guy Paul Morin's parents were there throughout both his trials; they were later compensated by the government for having exhausted their life savings and retirement accounts to defend him. Truscott's family stood up for him throughout.

Bernardo's family, though they did and still do support him in what ways they can - visits etc. - did not attend the trial or sentencing. There was little doubt PB was guilty - he denied the actual killing of the girls (and I believe him, but that's another story) but under the law he was guilty of M1 even were that true, because it occurred in context of kidnapping and sexual assault.

I belonged to AIDWC for years and heard of more such cases but the details escape me now. I'm sure both MS and DM have family members who know that their relative/son has committed crimes even if they may not believe murder is one of them, and they can't possibly wish to confront the negative publicity that would ensue from their being present along with victim's families. Though, as has been said (sorry, I don't remember by whom) the relatives of the accused are victims too, though of a different sort. I don't personally subscribe to the idea that we can just "blame the parents" for raising "spoiled brats" that turned into murderers. Empirical evidence suggests that upbringing, while very important, is FAR less determinative than we like to think. Biology and the peer group are (together) more influential in many cases. And we just do not know how hard those parents (or mostly moms) tried to get appropriate help for their deviant kids. In less affluent homes, the families often lack the resources or the knowledge of where to seek help - and in any event, the help may be ineffective.

Certainly DM's obvious sense of entitlement (etc) screams "spoiled brat" but it may be that many efforts were made to reel him in and all were failures. We really have no information about this.

Let's just pretend that MB actually was the ideal mom who bent heaven and earth trying to get DM on the straight and narrow and all her efforts were futile. She would KNOW that most of the world would think it's largely her fault - why would she appear in public to be reviled? Bad enough to have a child so deviant. I've known parents with some pretty damaged, even dangerous, kids - in spite of everything, they still loved that child and held out hope that something would make a difference. They hang in there.

I'm not sure I would have that kind of strength, to be honest.

 

[mozzagirl]

Waiting for the verdict is so hard but now after meeting and spending some time getting to know LB's parents, I am finding the wait much harder. I so hope both DM and MS will be convicted of M1 and that LB's family can close this chapter once and for all.

 

[MyTye]

MyTye, you may be right about some lawyers but I promise you NOBODY gets into teaching for the pay! They're paid much, much less than they deserve, have hardly any opportunity for promotion, zero bonuses or rewards for a job well done & pretty subpar benefits. The summers off are forced vacation time that they are NOT paid for. A certain percentage is taken from their pay that they earned during the year & deposited to them during the summer. Half the summer is usually spent preparing for the next year because they can't afford to go anywhere anyways!

Wow... I didn't expect the "Teacher" conversation to gain attention and it was not intended...I am a long time Civil Servant and I guess I have the expectation of similar people having the ethics I live by... All Human Beings know right from wrong. I guess this is what I was boiling it down to...Lawyers and Teachers are highly educated... The grey area between right and wrong shouldn't be too wide a stretch for them... As a youngster , my experience was mixed at best. Many teachers dismissed or ignored my needs. Some worked hard to understand. I revere the ones who tried to help!

DM has a warped perspective that he is smart enough to find loopholes/excuses/errors etc, and exploit them... How do you feel about a lawyer that feels the same? How do you feel about it he wants $ for it? Deep down, we all know what is right and wrong!

 

[swedie]

Another image of MB taken in 1999, when DM was 14 and achieved a record for being the youngest Canadian to fly solo in both an airplane and a helicopter on the same day. It's a screenshot from this video dated December 13, 2017. At 1:55 into the video is where I grabbed the image from.

Perhaps I didn't dig far enough, but I couldn't find the long version of DM's flying and interview video. In that video there is a clip of MB standing in the field watching DM fly. ALL MOO.

http://www.chch.com/jury-deliberates-laura-babcock-murder/

 

[Monger]

I am from the US, and I can't recall how I came across the TB case. Probably from this site following a different case a long time ago. Likely Jodi Arias lol. I have to say that so far, I like following Canadian trials the most. What is interesting to me is the publication bans and only hearing what the jury hears. To me this is unique, as a lot of US cases I know too much and it's hard to separate what I know from what the jury knows. It makes me feel like I'm sitting on the jury. I'm sort of struggling with that on this particular case since I followed the TB trial so closely. I'm sure it will be the same for WM, which I will also follow.

I also like the CanLii system where I can read the legal motions and arguments. I wish we had that transparency here. I don't understand why Justice Goodman released a bunch of publication bans right after the jury was sequestered in the TB trial, and I could read all the pub banned CanLii documents and still nothing is out there for this trial. It kept me occupied during deliberations. I saw documents regarding legal aid on LB that disappeared long ago. Is there a rule, or up to discretion for each Justice?

Anyway I'm restless. I want a verdict and Justice. I'm curious if anyone follows cases from other countries? I have also followed South Africa but the delays are crazy.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I am from the US, and I can't recall how I came across the TB case. Probably from this site following a different case a long time ago. Likely Jodi Arias lol. I have to say that so far, I like following Canadian trials the most. What is interesting to me is the publication bans and only hearing what the jury hears. To me this is unique, as a lot of US cases I know too much and it's hard to separate what I know from what the jury knows. It makes me feel like I'm sitting on the jury. I'm sort of struggling with that on this particular case since I followed the TB trial so closely. I'm sure it will be the same for WM, which I will also follow.

I also like the CanLii system where I can read the legal motions and arguments. I wish we had that transparency here. I don't understand why Justice Goodman released a bunch of publication bans right after the jury was sequestered in the TB trial, and I could read all the pub banned CanLii documents and still nothing is out there for this trial. It kept me occupied during deliberations. I saw documents regarding legal aid on LB that disappeared long ago. Is there a rule, or up to discretion for each Justice?

Anyway I'm restless. I want a verdict and Justice. I'm curious if anyone follows cases from other countries? I have also followed South Africa but the delays are crazy.

A warm welcome to you, Monger! Thank you for taking the time to express all your thoughts. It was wonderful to read about your interest as well as your perspective of our Canadian trials. I seldom hear from our neighbours regarding the differences in our justice systems ... it was a treat to read all of yours.

In addition to our Canadian trials, I have followed a great many U.S. and U.K. trials throughout my lifetime. Also a couple from Australia. I thoroughly enjoy podcasts and listen to all sorts of true crime cases/legal discussion from all over the world.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[BeKind_BeWell]

porkchopp, I've read a few of your posts just now. Wow, you have been through some tough times, I feel for you! You seem to have knowledge that is valuable but has not been taken seriously and you have really tried. Thanks for sharing and I wish you the best.

I tend to believe some of what you say has significance. In the TB and LB investigations, although LE has rounded up "the usual suspects" from DM's world and we have heard from some of them, based on the chop shop operation he was running at the hangar, and the drug running business, it is pretty clear that he had a reach into the criminal world and connections with bad people we have never heard about.

I imagine there were investigations that took LE elsewhere that they could not publicly connect to DM and maybe charges have been laid, and maybe there are ongoing investigations still (would not surprise me at all). Like others on WS I don't believe that LB, TB, and WM were the only ones. I think DM could have very well got up to murders all on his own, where people might not miss the victims and they could never be connected to him. Then he found a murdering buddy he could confess to and escalate things with.

 

[Spartygirl]

Is the Jury up and having breakfast now?? Is it unheard of for a jury to reach verdict on a weekend?? I have 2 Christmas parties and a Birthday party today/tonight and I am old school in believing that whilst at parties, my phone is off and I try to instill that in my kids to not have their faces in their phones while at social functions(they are adults,but hey, I'm still their mom LOL) HOWEVER, I am afraid that I will not be taking my own advise and will be checking my phone often for notifications.:shame:

 

[BeKind_BeWell]

On the one side, MB definitely used very poor judgement, and her moral fiber was lacking. She also seemed quite cozy around CN, who we now know, was a totally morally depraved person. The financial games after DM was in prison show where MB's heart was at.

But, I do feel that there was likely some denial at play... her little lamb... how could it possibly be true? The question I have, today, knowing what she must know now... is she in contact with CN? Has she admitted that her son DM is a psychopathic serial killer?

My sympathy is reserved for DM's primary victims and their families, yet a part if me sees MB being also another victim, even if she is partially to blame for her own shortcomings.
One thing is certain... there are no positives coming out of this entire debacle, it's such a burden on the families of the victims, and a huge waste of many lives.

above BBM

I agree with you except on the seeing her as a victim part. I tried to see her that way but for the reasons you mention, I cannot. Even though I don’t want to blame the ills of one relative on another, it’s her very own actions that make me cold about her.

I do not think it is some denial, I think it’s deep. In that way, to some degree, her and her son are similar. I’d put money on her and CN still being in touch – who else are they going to talk to about this, being cut from the same cloth and conspirators in the same events?

I have more compassion for Smich’s mother and sisters. I could imagine being in their shoes. They knew he did some rough stuff but I can just imagine him telling them it’s not their business and not to worry. There appears to have been a real familial bond there and as much as I have read, neither his mother nor his sisters were running around trying to destroy evidence or protect him. (Aside: it was a stupid move on his part to hide the gun used on Bosma in his mom’s garage, which we know he overly stressed about. Do not get me started on his contradictory behaviour of what he participated in versus his familial love.)