Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath - The Conversation Continues

Discussion in 'Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath' started by Bently, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    I understand what you are saying about childhoods and not using it as an excuse.

    But I do think that growing up in a cult is a significant factor in how one acts, while working for that cult.

    I agree that we cannot excuse adult sexual offenders, who use the excuse of being sexually abused themselves. We cannot go down that road and allow adults to shrug off responsibility for their own actions.

    But MR was taught as a young child, that he needed to defend himself and his family and his fellow scientologists from the evil world who was trying to destroy them. His actions were reprehensible, and he has admitted as much. He is not proud of his deeds.

    But it was never personal power he was trying to gain. He was trying to protect Scientology, his 'spiritual father.'

    Here is an interesting interview with him. I think it portrays him pretty well:

    [video=youtube;27ru1jKcPpc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27ru1jKcPpc[/video]

    Mike Rinder Exclusive Interview On The Macron Show
     
  2. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    To me it's hypocritical to excuse this man, because of his upbringing but not other criminals. What makes his childhood worse than a sexual offender who was molested? Or a kid who murders someone or attacks someone or whatever, who came from abuse and neglect?

    I hope this show is atonement for him. I know it's a paycheck. I've seen many of his interviews. He's candid but I've never really gotten a truly remorseful vibe from him. And I've seen the things he did to people and heard about it. He wasn't a small child. He was a fully grown man. Middle aged.

    Finally, I doubt his victims would come forward. They're mostly still in it.

    I believe this guy gets a pass because he's delivering a message we like about a cult we despise. But I have my reservations about the man.
     
  3. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    One of the things he has talked about, for example in the interview I linked, was that the cult shaped and molded children to be 'non-compassionate.' Being guarded and closed off was the 'proper' way to be, as a scientologist. And he spoke about having that as his current lesson---to try and be more connected and compassionate.

    I don't think it is hypocritical to differentiate between a child, separated from their parents, and raised in a Scientologist boarding school, and someone who was beaten or spanked and mistreated by one's family in childhood.

    I was sexually assaulted by my uncle, our after school baby sitter, from age 5 to about 8 or 9. It was traumatic, and I did act out sexually as a child and I was promiscuous as a teen because of the chaos and confusion. But he was just ONE PERSON that influenced my life. I had wonderful parents and grandparents and cousins and teachers that were supportive and loving and did not ever abuse me. So I had no excuse to become an adult that sexually abused children because I knew it was wrong.

    But a child who is sent to live TOTALLY and completely surrounded and submerged in Scientology, with no other influences, on other voices, no other points of view---they are totally brainwashed and I cannot blame someone for doing what they are told as an adult.

    I only had my uncle teaching me wrong things. But I had 98% of the people around me showing me the right things to do.

    A child in a scientology boarding school has no other input, no other way to view the world. So I am not going to judge them as harshly as I do someone who was mistreated as child, but has other influences, that still ends up choosing to be a criminal.
     
  4. Safeguard

    Safeguard Well-Known Member

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    Well said.

    I think Rinder has a Psychopathic personality. Not only do I not get a remorseful vibe form him, there are things he has said, and shown... that indicate that he is in fact, proud of his "role' and status within Scientology, even when he knew full well that what he was doing was heinous and criminal.

    I don't feel he is being humanitarian now, so much as he is enjoying getting revenge on David M.

    It reminds me a lot of the movie Goodfellows". Where Henry Hill recounts his role in the Mafia, he was indoctrinated as a child, but he clearly enjoyed his villainous "work", and his personal make-up was one that allowed him to justify what he did (Psychopathic). Only when he realized his "Leader"(s) were out to kill him, did he then turn states evidence.

    This is exactly what I think Mike Rinder is doing. To a Tee. Imo.

    Not so much with Leah, as Mike has even stated that she was not aware of the level of corruption that he was privy to while they were both still "In", but I do feel she has a level of cognitive dissonance between what is excusable behavior for herself and those she associates with, but not excusable in those she deems immoral ect...

    It's extremely unpopular to look at this docudrama with a critical eye as Hive Mentality is singling it's praises all over the web right now, (but I think that's going to change if season two continues on its current trajectory of over edited, heavily scripted, emotionally manipulative, biased coverage).
     
  5. Safeguard

    Safeguard Well-Known Member

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    I watched several you tube videos of Mike Rinder. A series of interviews that he did... and I now must admit, that although I still feel revulsion for his behavior towards others, I realize that I cannot possibly understand the effects that his conditioning had on him personally. That is to say, I can only imagine, the effects that those same circumstances may have had on myself, and I cannot imagine myself doing to others, what he did. But I can not say for certain, that I would not have done those (or perhaps worse) things.

    Much like the average person cannot understand how an innocent person could confess to a murder they didn't commit, but there is ample evidence of that phenomena given the right circumstances... I would like to believe that I would never behave like he did, but experience is the biggest killer of theory, as the saying goes, and I must admit I have no idea what effect his life circumstances would have on me, and I can only hope I never really know...

    At one point, in this clip I linked below, where he is explaining how the humiliation, beatings or what-have-you, that he inflicted, was not only so that he himself could survive, (the nightmarish alter-reality that was his existence, is what I am understanding), another day, but he states that he also felt he was, "helping" his victim avoid possibly even more extreme consequences in some twisted belief ( hey there's a good new name for Scientology right there Ha!), that they would get back on track afterward.

    In this one clip he admits that he cannot even explain the dreadful totality of what he lived, even to himself, but he gives it what seems to me, to be a good shot, where one can at least catch a glimpse of the utter insanity and confusion that is the daily bread of those ensnared in this cult. I no longer feel quite as certain that he was born lacking empathy. He may well have had to discard it to survive, much like the plight of battered spouses or children. I only hope going forward that they give these same thoughtful considerations to those still ensnared in the cult, as that strikes me as a weakness in the docudrama.

    [video]https://youtu.be/4rfUlL0_TCQ[/video]
     
  6. teddeshred

    teddeshred New Member

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    I think that if you watch last nights round table discussion, "The Bridge to Total Freedom", it was more about how the COS recruits, and the process that one takes to be indoctrinated. It also delves in to the way the church creates a sort of mass hysteria method of teaching. That if you don't get it, then you must be a suppressive person and are forced to leave the COS. This way of teaching, will only force people to "pretend" that they are seeing the results, as advertised. And finally, explained Xenu!!
     
  7. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    That was a really interesting round table discussion. I could not believe how much money was 'stolen' from the cultists each year. wow
     
  8. Bently

    Bently Former Member

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    I listened to the entire show, thanks. At the end of the show, he talks about his blog site at mikerindersblog.org . I'm reading some of that, and the comments.
     
  9. LaneGirl

    LaneGirl Well-Known Member

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    I'll bring my perspective in to this. I grew up in a fundie religion. I absolutely judged people as an adult, refused to speak to them because they "betrayed" our "religion". I am 100% guilty for telling people my religion would save them and 100% guilty for judging people inside my religion.


    Mike Rinder was 100% blinded by his religion. He believed what he was doing was right just as I thought I was right. The bible told me so it must be true.

    I firmly believe there is a disconnect between belief and critical thinking.

    Did MR do bad things yes, so did I. But you have to understand there is a "mental block" if you will when it comes to certain religions and how/what an individual is taught.

    It's sucks. I will forever for the rest of my life regret bringing people into my "cult" but the gods honest truth if one believes in god I thought I was 100% helping them. sigh:(
     
    rootbeer likes this.
  10. wonderllama

    wonderllama Registered Snoozer

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    I am really fascinated by this series. Leah and Mike are so impressive, not just in confronting their own demons and the stories behind them, but calling out this cult for what it is. Each time I see Mike tearing up, I can't imagine the anguish he must feel knowing his role in so much of the hurt the people and their families are feeling.

    From my point of view, I am non-religious, atheist and yeah, a bit of a head shaker when I see how these groups (and I include all religions in this I guess) latch on to people and manipulate them in to accepting the word of people or a person. Not the word of God or Allah or whoever, the word of another person. Perhaps Scientology stands out as being more loopy because we all know the Xenu story or their practices seems to have no actual benefits to the followers, only the hierarchy.

    When I think of religion, I think of control. I think of someone proclaiming a set of moral standards with the reward being the bit at the end...a place in heaven. But at least some niceness comes from the regular religions, but even that is conditional at times and that has enormously tainted my views on missionaries etc. But aside from the feeling like you belong, I see none of these "benefits" with Scientology and I think part of combating it needs to be addressing their sales pitch.

    What must a person be missing in their life to independently choose to follow a religion? I'm not talking those born into religion...like most of you reading this have inherited your family's religion, which is at least understandable, but to seek out a meaning away from your family and to find it in Scientology? What's the hook? What's the "well dammit, this is better than the church down the road"?

    I'm on a bit of a soapbox, sorry about that :crazy:

    Anyway, it's a series I can't get enough of and I look forward to Leah and Mike continuing to talk to those affected and hopefully influence others to open their eyes and embrace reality again.
     
  11. illyana

    illyana New Member

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    I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who believes in this demonstrable trash. Not even the "well the tech is good, Ron was wrong." No. You're dicking around with a low-grade polygraph. And polygraph machines have no business in courts or investigations, they are little more than visceral emotional gauges.

    Lie detectors are trash. Scientology is trash. Wake up.
     
  12. SolwayFirth

    SolwayFirth Member

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    Aftermath will conclude with Remini and former high-ranking church official Mike Rinder‘s two-hour special filmed in front of a live studio audience (airing tonight at 9 p.m. ET on A&E)

    "If you’re an advertiser, wherever you are, receiving 20-30 letters a week saying this show is hateful… they’ve accused me of inciting murder, and the New York Post ran with that headline, so did TMZ, and they can both kiss my fat ass for doing so. You can quote me on that."

    I love this woman. Hopefully this isn't a "Finale".
     
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