Legal and Law Questions - * No Discussion *

[AZlawyer]

Order for DNA testing 1/25

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov...0/m4064876.pdf

Why would they ask for DNA testing? Is that standard procedure in a case like this or would they need it for a specific reason-like to match it with evidence they currently have?

Standard procedure.

What might the reason be for her not being put in the general population of the jail ????

Is she not in the general population?? I didn't know that. The reason would generally have to do with safety and security at the jail--i.e., if she would be a danger to others or others would be a danger to her.

Hi, AZ. Any idea whether it's EJ or her PD requesting termination?

"According to court officials, Johnson refused to leave her cell to attend the hearing, which was scheduled to designate the case complex and to hear a motion to terminate council.

Johnson's presence was required for the motion to terminate council, so the hearing was rescheduled for March 17 at 10 a.m."

http://www.kpho.com/news/22785043/detail.html

P.S. Any and all other gossip, rumors, and hearsay welcome

Nothing in the docket suggests that any such motion has been filed at all.

AZ will likely know the specifics in the state of Arizona, but the request to designate the case as "complex" and the motion to terminate counsel may be related. Often a different team of public defenders is lined up to defend complex cases.

I am interested to know what factors and circumstances might cause this case to be deemed "complex". My cursory understanding of AZ law is that the "complex" designation is applied to first degree murder cases and those involving wiretapping, though the court could apply a complex designation for other reasons.

Yes, those are the two specified reasons for designating a case as complex, but the judge can designate any case as complex if it reasonably will take more than 6 months to get ready for trial.

In this case, I don't see how it will take much time to get ready for trial on the charges against her. Whether she sold the baby or killed him, there is plenty of evidence that she interfered with Logan's custodial rights and took Gabriel out of state with the intent of placing Logan in fear of physical harm to Gabriel. Where's the complexity?

 

[southern_comfort]

[snipped]
Nothing in the docket suggests that any such motion has been filed at all. [snipped]

I wonder if the termination of counsel issue reported by the media is contained within the motion to designate the case as complex? If AZ courts draw from a different pool of public defenders for complex cases, and VS isn't in that pool, I wonder if it might be included as a matter of course in such a motion.

 

[NewMommy09]

Standard procedure.



Is she not in the general population?? I didn't know that. The reason would generally have to do with safety and security at the jail--i.e., if she would be a danger to others or others would be a danger to her.



Nothing in the docket suggests that any such motion has been filed at all.



Yes, those are the two specified reasons for designating a case as complex, but the judge can designate any case as complex if it reasonably will take more than 6 months to get ready for trial.

In this case, I don't see how it will take much time to get ready for trial on the charges against her. Whether she sold the baby or killed him, there is plenty of evidence that she interfered with Logan's custodial rights and took Gabriel out of state with the intent of placing Logan in fear of physical harm to Gabriel. Where's the complexity?

Is it possible they want to declare the case as complex so they can allow more time for the investigation and possibly add more charges? Or would the cases still be tried seperately reguardless?

Also, if there is a future trial reguarding her killing or selling Gabriel, can she face additional charges of custodial interference related to those new charges?

Hope that makes sense.

 

[BeanE]

Noting for reference:

Complex cases include (1) all first degree murder cases, (2) all cases that will require the court to consider evidence obtained as the result of an order permitting the interception of wire, electronic or oral communication, and (3) any case that the court, in a written factual finding, designates as complex.

Factors to be considered in determining if a case should be designated as complex include, but are not limited to, the following:
a.Source of evidence from interception of wire, electronic or oral communication
b.Number of defendants;
c.Number of counts;
d.Nature of charges;
e.Number of witnesses/victims to be called;
f.Expert witnesses -- number, nature of testimony, etc.;
g.Out-of-town witnesses;
h.Number of exhibits;
i.Nature of exhibits;
j.Defendant's pro se status;
k.Complex legal issues;
l.The timing of the motion to designate the case complex.

http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/SuperiorCourt/AdministrativeOrders/docs/ao2009-109.pdf

 

[NewMommy09]

Noting for reference:

Complex cases include (1) all first degree murder cases, (2) all cases that will require the court to consider evidence obtained as the result of an order permitting the interception of wire, electronic or oral communication, and (3) any case that the court, in a written factual finding, designates as complex.

Factors to be considered in determining if a case should be designated as complex include, but are not limited to, the following:
a.Source of evidence from interception of wire, electronic or oral communication
b.Number of defendants;
c.Number of counts;
d.Nature of charges;
e.Number of witnesses/victims to be called;
f.Expert witnesses -- number, nature of testimony, etc.;
g.Out-of-town witnesses;
h.Number of exhibits;
i.Nature of exhibits;
j.Defendant's pro se status;
k.Complex legal issues;
l.The timing of the motion to designate the case complex.

http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/SuperiorCourt/AdministrativeOrders/docs/ao2009-109.pdf

BBM, would I be right to assume that the digital recording Logan made of her phone call describing Gabriel's death would fall into this category and may be at least one of the reasons for the case to be declared complex?

 

[AZlawyer]

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/032010/m4127589.pdf

Latest court order.

It looks like the defense counsel filed (or orally raised) a "motion to determine counsel." AZ media sources say that EJ "fired" her public defender. So maybe this was a motion to see if the judge wanted the public defender to step down as supposedly requested by EJ.

Although the court docket indicated that the Motion for Complex Case Designation was filed by "party 001" (the State), this order says twice that it was Defendant's motion (EJ). The Court also says that the Motion for CCD cannot be determined until the motion to determine counsel is resolved. Sooo....:waitasec:....since one factor to be considered by the judge on the Motion for CCD is whether the defendant is proceeding "pro se" (without counsel), maybe the motion to determine counsel asks for EJ to be allowed to proceed pro se!

Although it makes very little sense, as part of a plan to convince the judge you can represent yourself, to refuse to come out of your cell and get your butt to court....

 

[kappy50]

Do PI's have to devulge information they have to LE ? And can a PI still work on a case whether he is retained by someone or not ???

 

[kappy50]

Hi AZ.me again...if EJ was charged in SA for "Aggrevated Homicide"...at what point would she go back to face thoses charges? I undersatnd it all depends on what happens on her charges in AZ. All charges against her are bad enough as it is, but if SAPD did this, would it overide her charges in AZ ??? thx's....

 

[AZlawyer]

Do PI's have to devulge information they have to LE ? And can a PI still work on a case whether he is retained by someone or not ???

(1) No, unless it's something that falls under some other law--like if the PI finds a body and there's a law in that state requiring that you report any found body.

(2) Yes, if they don't mind working for free.

 

[AZlawyer]

Hi AZ.me again...if EJ was charged in SA for "Aggrevated Homicide"...at what point would she go back to face thoses charges? I undersatnd it all depends on what happens on her charges in AZ. All charges against her are bad enough as it is, but if SAPD did this, would it overide her charges in AZ ??? thx's....

I believe the officials in the two states would negotiate which charges would be handled first and where she would be housed in the meantime.

 

[TXHOPE]

Hi AZLawyer! Thank you so much for answering all of these questions for us. I have one more for you.

Since the judge stated that EJ may not have any contact with the father, would they have to go back to court to allow LM to speak to EJ, if she agrees to see him?

 

[AZlawyer]

Hi AZLawyer! Thank you so much for answering all of these questions for us. I have one more for you.

Since the judge stated that EJ may not have any contact with the father, would they have to go back to court to allow LM to speak to EJ, if she agrees to see him?

First of all, I just went back and read all the minute entries (court orders) and can't find anything saying Elizabeth cannot contact Logan.

Assuming I missed it, though, the answer is that technically someone would have to ask the court to lift the order, but more likely if both parties agreed to a jail visit, no one would notice the order or worry about it.

 

[iluvmua]

Q: How many years in Prison is Elizabeth currently facing?

 

[kappy50]

assuming there are no additional charges against EJ, how long could this all play out in court ??? thank you!

 

[AZlawyer]

Q: How many years in Prison is Elizabeth currently facing?

She could get 24 years just for what she's already admitted to: taking Gabriel for the purpose of keeping him away from his dad at a time when the custody order did not permit her to do so, partly for the purpose of placing the father in fear for Gabriel's life or safety, aggravated by her threatening actual infliction of injury to Gabriel.

If she had not stupidly threatened to harm or claimed to have actually killed Gabriel, the presumptive sentence would have been 4 to 5.33 years even if she sold Gabriel or gave him up in an adoption involving forged documents!

assuming there are no additional charges against EJ, how long could this all play out in court ??? thank you!

A year or so, I would guess.

 

[BeanE]

She could get 24 years just for what she's already admitted to: taking Gabriel for the purpose of keeping him away from his dad at a time when the custody order did not permit her to do so, partly for the purpose of placing the father in fear for Gabriel's life or safety, aggravated by her threatening actual infliction of injury to Gabriel.

If she had not stupidly threatened to harm or claimed to have actually killed Gabriel, the presumptive sentence would have been 4 to 5.33 years even if she sold Gabriel or gave him up in an adoption involving forged documents!



A year or so, I would guess.

4 to 5 years for selling or giving away your baby??? A human baby??? No wonder she acts like it's no big deal. With no record, if she hadn't done the other things as you said, she'd have been out of prison in no time.

This has certainly made things crystal clear for me. Thank you, AZ.

 

[kappy50]

Hi AZ...thanks in advance...who or what determines how one is placed in general population ????

 

[AZlawyer]

Hi AZ...thanks in advance...who or what determines how one is placed in general population ????

Whether the prisoner is a danger to others, and whether others are a danger to the prisoner.

 

[BeanE]

Hi AZ! Elizabeth invoked the 5th today in the hearing, but she was found in contempt. I thought if you invoked the 5th you couldn't be found in contempt. Can you offer some insight on what might have happened?

There may be more info tonight as there is supposed to be courtroom footage of her from KPHO.

Thanks!
BeanE

ETA: A little more info from a news article:

McQueary's attorney, Craig Mehrens, asked McVey to find Johnson in contempt for violating his December ruling that awarded visitation rights to McQueary.

McVey set a hearing for April 28 to review the contempt allegation.

Mehrens said McVey could order Johnson to produce the baby, or force her to remain in jail in contempt of court until she does.

 

[AZlawyer]

Hi AZ! Elizabeth invoked the 5th today in the hearing, but she was found in contempt. I thought if you invoked the 5th you couldn't be found in contempt. Can you offer some insight on what might have happened?

There may be more info tonight as there is supposed to be courtroom footage of her from KPHO.

Thanks!
BeanE

ETA: A little more info from a news article:

McQueary's attorney, Craig Mehrens, asked McVey to find Johnson in contempt for violating his December ruling that awarded visitation rights to McQueary.

McVey set a hearing for April 28 to review the contempt allegation.

Mehrens said McVey could order Johnson to produce the baby, or force her to remain in jail in contempt of court until she does.

Taking the 5th can't be held against you in a criminal case. It can and will be held against you in a civil case, including a divorce/child custody matter.