Legal Questions for Our VERIFIED Lawyers #2

[jandkmom]

Sorry if this has already been asked...

If during the trial KC tries to say that GA or LA sexually abused her, can GA or LA be brought up on abuse charges if they are called to the stand and don't say that KC is telling a lie?

 

[MissJames]

Since this thread is getting busier as the trial draws close,my question is : Can we put our Verified Lawyers on retainer in order to exclusively have their attention 24/7 beginning May 1st ? And an icon button that's a link to this thread ? Think speed dial . Instant messaging. I-chat.

 

[mobius99]

The judge has made it clear that he will not allow a trail by ambush and all witnesses that may testify have to be named. But I've seen it in movies (ie dramatic court scene) where a surprise witness is called.
What are the legal circumstances where this would be allowed?
Or is this just "made for movies" theatrics?

 

[AZlawyer]

Hello again!

Reviewing the "Theories about what really happened to Caylee" thread #7 got me thinking again about the high levels of chloroform detected in the trunk, and spurred a question that sent me jogging over here...

If you were the SA, how much would you make of the higher-than-usual chloroform levels in the trunk, plus the computer searches for chloroform at the Anthony home? It seems there's a lot of circumstantial/anecdotal chloroform-related evidence, but is it even worth the SA pursuing it with so much else that they can weave into their presentation?

Thank you for your time and insights and patience!

If, as the defense claims, the State's experts were waffly about the levels of chloroform in their depositions, or about what levels of chloroform would have been "normal" and why, then I would drop the whole chloroform discussion. We'll have to wait and see those depo transcripts.

"Kelley, who knew the Anthonys before the case erupted in July 2008, also said he drafted documents to help the Anthonys have Caylee's father sign over his parental rights. He did not know if those documents were ever filed, but was later told that the father signed the paperwork before he died, Kelley said during his October deposition. "

OMG!!! He drafted the documents for the father to terminate his parental rights?
Would the drafted documents be part of attorney/client privilege?
In the case of a missing child, not a murdered child, would the state be able to subpoena the documents?
How long would he have to keep a copy of the documents?
I want to see those documents!!

The documents are not privileged. I suppose the State could subpoena them whether the case is for a missing child or a murdered child.

There might be rules in Florida about how long a lawyer has to keep certain docs, but if Kelley gave the document to the As to get it signed and never saw it again, I doubt he would have been required to keep a copy of the unsigned document.

I want to see it too. I saw in the news thread that Kelley said the As showed him the father's obituary, so I assume it was Eric James Baker, the one that KC made up and whose fake "obituary" was on the As' computer. Betcha EJB's signature on those docs was fake too.

I know we all want to know - but would this information actually be brought up at trial? I don't think so as I don't see the relevance but...... what do you think AzLawyer, would any information re Cayee's father be brought into trial as we have no information he was at all involved in the crime?

From what we know so far, I can't imagine how the identity of the father would be relevant at trial, unless he's listed as a witness.

Sorry if this has already been asked...

If during the trial KC tries to say that GA or LA sexually abused her, can GA or LA be brought up on abuse charges if they are called to the stand and don't say that KC is telling a lie?

If the statute of limitations for prosecution hasn't passed. Which I suspect it has.

The judge has made it clear that he will not allow a trail by ambush and all witnesses that may testify have to be named. But I've seen it in movies (ie dramatic court scene) where a surprise witness is called.
What are the legal circumstances where this would be allowed?
Or is this just "made for movies" theatrics?

This used to be how it worked, but in most (or possibly all) jurisdictions now, "trial by ambush" is not permitted. But no one wants to watch a movie where the lawyers spend half the time drafting disclosure documents lol.

 

[mobius99]

Sorry AZ, another dumb question. Would KC need to be listed as a witness if she intends to testify? Or does she automatically have that right as the defendant?

 

[Paintr]

If, as the defense claims, the State's experts were waffly about the levels of chloroform in their depositions, or about what levels of chloroform would have been "normal" and why, then I would drop the whole chloroform discussion. We'll have to wait and see those depo transcripts.



The documents are not privileged. I suppose the State could subpoena them whether the case is for a missing child or a murdered child.

There might be rules in Florida about how long a lawyer has to keep certain docs, but if Kelley gave the document to the As to get it signed and never saw it again, I doubt he would have been required to keep a copy of the unsigned document.

I want to see it too. I saw in the news thread that Kelley said the As showed him the father's obituary, so I assume it was Eric James Baker, the one that KC made up and whose fake "obituary" was on the As' computer. Betcha EJB's signature on those docs was fake too.



From what we know so far, I can't imagine how the identity of the father would be relevant at trial, unless he's listed as a witness.



If the statute of limitations for prosecution hasn't passed. Which I suspect it has.



This used to be how it worked, but in most (or possibly all) jurisdictions now, "trial by ambush" is not permitted. But no one wants to watch a movie where the lawyers spend half the time drafting disclosure documents lol.

The FBI seems to have some maybe evidence in their posession. I say 'maybe' evidence because, as far as we know, it hasn't been released to the defense team yet, so it may/may not be used at trial.
Is there a time limit for this evidence (test results, taped conversations, whatever) from the FBI to be released? Can the FBI hold onto this evidence 'till just before trial and then release it to the SA who in turn would release it to the defense, catching the defense off guard? Is there a deadline for evidence release to avoid 'trial by ambush'?

Thank you kindly in advance.

 

[Itsy]

The documents are not privileged. I suppose the State could subpoena them whether the case is for a missing child or a murdered child.

There might be rules in Florida about how long a lawyer has to keep certain docs, but if Kelley gave the document to the As to get it signed and never saw it again, I doubt he would have been required to keep a copy of the unsigned document.

I want to see it too. I saw in the news thread that Kelley said the As showed him the father's obituary, so I assume it was Eric James Baker, the one that KC made up and whose fake "obituary" was on the As' computer. Betcha EJB's signature on those docs was fake too.

RS & BBM

Wouldn't a document such as this need to be filed with & stamped by the clerk of court? Or is this something that could just be notarized and kept by the A's in case he changed his mind down the road (assuming, of course, that he didn't eventually die - in a car crash or any other premature death)?? I'd imagine a legal document of a father giving up parental rights would need to be filed with the local clerk of court; therefore, Mr. Kelley should have a stamped copy in his files, no? :waitasec: I could be wrong, of course, lol...

 

[AZlawyer]

Sorry AZ, another dumb question. Would KC need to be listed as a witness if she intends to testify? Or does she automatically have that right as the defendant?

I'm sure KC would be allowed to testify even if she decides at the last minute, to protect her constitutional rights.

The FBI seems to have some maybe evidence in their posession. I say 'maybe' evidence because, as far as we know, it hasn't been released to the defense team yet, so it may/may not be used at trial.
Is there a time limit for this evidence (test results, taped conversations, whatever) from the FBI to be released? Can the FBI hold onto this evidence 'till just before trial and then release it to the SA who in turn would release it to the defense, catching the defense off guard? Is there a deadline for evidence release to avoid 'trial by ambush'?

Thank you kindly in advance.

There should be a final deadline for the SA to release evidence to the defense team before trial, whether or not the FBI has released the evidence to the SA. It is the SA's job to get what they need from the FBI in time.

RS & BBM

Wouldn't a document such as this need to be filed with & stamped by the clerk of court? Or is this something that could just be notarized and kept by the A's in case he changed his mind down the road (assuming, of course, that he didn't eventually die - in a car crash or any other premature death)?? I'd imagine a legal document of a father giving up parental rights would need to be filed with the local clerk of court; therefore, Mr. Kelley should have a stamped copy in his files, no? :waitasec: I could be wrong, of course, lol...

No, it would not have to be filed in court.

 

[precious]

Sorry if this question has been asked, but if KC makes an appeal after her conviction,
Is the state of Florida obligated to pay for it? Thank you in advance.

 

[chakti]

quick question and thank you .
the judge ruled no one could say cia lies. did i read that right ???

 

[AZlawyer]

Sorry if this question has been asked, but if KC makes an appeal after her conviction,
Is the state of Florida obligated to pay for it? Thank you in advance.

I think so, yes.

quick question and thank you .
the judge ruled no one could say [Casey] lies. did i read that right ???

No, the media screwed that up. The judge said no one could call any of the WITNESSES liars, unless there was evidence to support such an accusation. This doesn't apply to Casey because (1) she will not be a witness, and (2) if she is a witness, the evidence that she is lying will be overwhelming.

 

[chakti]

:great:

I think so, yes.



No, the media screwed that up. The judge said no one could call any of the WITNESSES liars, unless there was evidence to support such an accusation. This doesn't apply to Casey because (1) she will not be a witness, and (2) if she is a witness, the evidence that she is lying will be overwhelming.

The media screwed up ? Who da thunked it ?
Thank goodnes we got you to keep us straight.

 

[fbinAR]

This is not a legal question as much as a legal procedure question. I asked on another thread and got no answer. Hopefully this is the right place to ask it.
Any witness not allowed to be in the courtroom until they testify (including C&G) are kept somewhere until time to testify. My question is- are they kept in rooms separated into defense wits and pros wits or just on benches in the hall? The only trial I have been involved in was a small one and the witnesses waited on benches outside the courtroom. I remember some tenseness and awkward moments between the two sides. I can only imagine in a major murder trial there could be some intimidation and awkward moments- espescially with the younger ex friends of Casey and C&G. Hope this is not a stupid question, just really curious as to the procedure. TIA

 

[ZsaZsa]

Regarding the document that Eric James Baker is said to have signed, surrendering his parental rights.. you said his signature was likely fake. Wouldn't they be required to have his signature notarized on such an important document ( if it even exists).
What could be the consequences of forging such a document?
Thanks

 

[AZlawyer]

This is not a legal question as much as a legal procedure question. I asked on another thread and got no answer. Hopefully this is the right place to ask it.
Any witness not allowed to be in the courtroom until they testify (including C&G) are kept somewhere until time to testify. My question is- are they kept in rooms separated into defense wits and pros wits or just on benches in the hall? The only trial I have been involved in was a small one and the witnesses waited on benches outside the courtroom. I remember some tenseness and awkward moments between the two sides. I can only imagine in a major murder trial there could be some intimidation and awkward moments- espescially with the younger ex friends of Casey and C&G. Hope this is not a stupid question, just really curious as to the procedure. TIA

They are not "kept" anywhere, normally. They can sit outside, walk around the block, whatever. Yes, there are often tense moments in the hallway.

Regarding the document that Eric James Baker is said to have signed, surrendering his parental rights.. you said his signature was likely fake. Wouldn't they be required to have his signature notarized on such an important document ( if it even exists).
What could be the consequences of forging such a document?
Thanks

I'm just guessing that it was EJB, and also just guessing that it was ever signed at all. If it was, the signature would have been fake, because he didn't exist...as we ought to have known from the fact that Casey gave his middle name lol.

True, most likely, the form the lawyer provided would have included a notary block. I doubt Casey could have forged a notary stamp or persuaded a real notary to stamp a fake signature, so perhaps it was just never signed at all.

There are no consequences to forging a non-existent person's name on a document that is never used for anything.

 

[ZsaZsa]

This is not a legal question as much as a legal procedure question. I asked on another thread and got no answer. Hopefully this is the right place to ask it.
Any witness not allowed to be in the courtroom until they testify (including C&G) are kept somewhere until time to testify. My question is- are they kept in rooms separated into defense wits and pros wits or just on benches in the hall? The only trial I have been involved in was a small one and the witnesses waited on benches outside the courtroom. I remember some tenseness and awkward moments between the two sides. I can only imagine in a major murder trial there could be some intimidation and awkward moments- espescially with the younger ex friends of Casey and C&G. Hope this is not a stupid question, just really curious as to the procedure. TIA

I am not clear either about how sequestering is achieved- if a person can testify, then go right back out to the waiting area and discuss his testimony with the next witnesses, doesn't that allow them to compare notes and collude? I thought they were 'kept' in different areas until testimony had been completed....

 

[AZlawyer]

I am not clear either about how sequestering is achieved- if a person can testify, then go right back out to the waiting area and discuss his testimony with the next witnesses, doesn't that allow them to compare notes and collude? I thought they were 'kept' in different areas until testimony had been completed....

There are plenty of opportunities for "sequestered" witnesses to learn the testimony of other witnesses, at least in the courts where I practice. It is just handled on the honor system. But with the disclosure and discovery rules the way they are now (no "trial by ambush," most witnesses deposed before trial) the rule of exclusion of witnesses is not as important as it used to be.

 

[darnudes]

IMO they tested only for male DNA because they knew the most likely result (if any) if they checked for all DNA would be that only Casey's and Caylee's DNA would be found. This would make it difficult to argue that Caylee's body was dumped just weeks before it was found in Dec 2008 by "the kidnappers."

As someone pointed out a couple of posts back, the defense is not going to use these results at trial, because they are not helpful. So the jury will never know that the defense didn't test for female DNA.

Unless Baez "accidentally" opens the door? Just like he almost did with his former associate during the 3 day hearing and Judge Perry had to quickly pull him back.

I know it's only speculation but seeing Baez in action recently - do you see Baez making some major blunders during the trial? From the hearings I remember him forgetting to allow the State to question Sgt John Allen and of course nearly breaching the client/attorney privilege with his former partner.

 

[AZlawyer]

Unless Baez "accidentally" opens the door? Just like he almost did with his former associate during the 3 day hearing and Judge Perry had to quickly pull him back.

I know it's only speculation but seeing Baez in action recently - do you see Baez making some major blunders during the trial? From the hearings I remember him forgetting to allow the State to question Sgt John Allen and of course nearly breaching the client/attorney privilege with his former partner.

He will make blunders and, to avoid Casey arguing them down the road as ineffective assistance of counsel, HHJP and maybe even the SA will pull his butt out of the fire.

 

[RR0004]

Well, who ya gonna believe jennyb? George "I'd do anything or say anything to save my daughter" or a licensed practicing attorney with a fairly good reputation?

Why would Kelley lie about drafting these documents?

I would really like to hear from the experts about A/C privilege and if the doc's would be subject to super awesome subpoena powers.

The docs IMO are worthless in the scheme of things. They could have brought in any obituary and said...oh that's the dad! I'm confused...he draws up papers...and then they come back with an obit? You would think that if the father was signing away parental rights that it would have to be filed in Family Court. Right, AZ? Are we to assume that these events happened simultaneously? Poor guy. Not that I believe one word of this story...

ETA: oops...I see you already answered about the papers being filed.