Legal Questions for our Verified Lawyers #4

[okiedokietoo]

Hi and Thank You -
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime/zenaida-gonzalez-attorneys-to-casey-anthony-we-want-2237602.html
Zenaida Gonzalez attorneys to Casey Anthony: We want all your tweets
By Jeff Weiner Orlando Sentinel
Updated: 1:56 p.m. Wednesday, March 14, 2012

Meanwhile, Gonzalez's attorneys on Wednesday also filed a notice indicating that they plan to seek a subpoena for Thomas Magorrian, circuit administrator for the Florida Department of Corrections.

The subpoena, if issued, would demand Anthony's "current residence address." Anthony's defense has 15 days in which to object to the subpoena.

What do you think - will FDOC have to turn over the address? Does a County Judge have the authority to order a State Department to do or not do something or would this go to Florida Supreme Court?

 

[AZlawyer]

Hi and Thank You -
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime/zenaida-gonzalez-attorneys-to-casey-anthony-we-want-2237602.html
Zenaida Gonzalez attorneys to Casey Anthony: We want all your tweets
By Jeff Weiner Orlando Sentinel
Updated: 1:56 p.m. Wednesday, March 14, 2012


What do you think - will FDOC have to turn over the address? Does a County Judge have the authority to order a State Department to do or not do something or would this go to Florida Supreme Court?

Yes, a county judge would have the necessary authority.

 

[Katprint]

I believe FL law states the process server cannot trespass. Does that mean they cannot go up to her door without permission? Seems ridiculous to me, but if KC is at that church house it now makes sense that JL was reported posting No Trespassing signs.

If the process server cannot trespass, that means they have to find KC out and about somewhere. But, if she is in hiding and not out and about, how can she be served?

The laws in that area of the world seem tipped in favor of the criminals. And Florida wonders why their crime rates are so high? Just saying...

One last thing: I saw the tweet by R. Hornsby about Florida requiring all felons to register with the sheriff in the county where they reside, within 48 hours of becoming a resident. If KC has registered as required, could the sheriff not serve the subpoena? And, if KC has not registered as required, what legal action can be taken against her for failure to register?

There are appellate cases that basically say, if you sequester yourself inside a gated community or some other private situation where you have arranged for a receptionist or security guard or other person to intercept process servers, then those people are your de-facto agents for service of process and serving them is as good as serving you. Additionally, the person being served doesn't actually have to take a hold of the papers; the process server can simply announce that the person is being served with legal process then toss the papers at the person's feet.

My experience having people served by the sheriff is: The deputy sheriffs aren't motivated to try very hard. Unlike private process servers, they don't get paid based on success. They don't look up addresses or perform skip traces. They go to the address you give them, knock on the door, and leave if nobody answers. They do their services during the daytime when most people are at work, and they don't do stake-outs. They are useful for evictions but that's about it.

My experience with people trying to avoid service of process is: The process server's sworn declaration of service is usually enough all by itself. The person who was served does not have to agree that they have been properly served. If someone really wants to challenge the validity of the personal service or substituted service or service by publication, they have to do it by filing a motion with the court - usually a motion to quash but sometimes a demurrer, depending on the circumstances. Even if they are successful due to some technical/procedure defect in the service ("That was my identical twin sister who the process server handed the papers to") the judge will usually order them deemed served as of the hearing date because they have "actual" notice.

The bottom line is, service of process is not supposed to be a game of "tag" or "hide and seek." It is supposed to ensure that a person has knowledge of legal proceedings affecting them, and that all witnesses/documents/evidence are made available for proper consideration by the court.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

 

[rhornsby]

Substitute service is only worthwhile if you want to get a default judgment. Personal service is necessary when you want to hold someone in contempt for not honoring the subpoena.

The reason being is that in order to hold someone in contempt you first have to file a Rule to Show Cause why a person should be held in contempt.

In order to "show cause" why a person should be held in contempt for not honoring a subpoena, you must show a court that the person actually received the subpoena. Which substitute service does not prove.

Substitute service only proves you made adequate "attempts" to notify someone of something; not that you in fact notified them.

 

[chefmom]

Any attorneys who might want to pop over to Trayvon's thread and help clear up the Stand Your Ground law would be greatly appreciated! TIA!

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7700649#post7700649"]FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Katprint]

Substitute service is only worthwhile if you want to get a default judgment. Personal service is necessary when you want to hold someone in contempt for not honoring the subpoena.

The reason being is that in order to hold someone in contempt you first have to file a Rule to Show Cause why a person should be held in contempt.

In order to "show cause" why a person should be held in contempt for not honoring a subpoena, you must show a court that the person actually received the subpoena. Which substitute service does not prove.

Substitute service only proves you made adequate "attempts" to notify someone of something; not that you in fact notified them.

I must certainly defer to a licensed Florida attorney concerning how legal process works in Florida. Also, I agree that substitute service of a deposition subpoena or document subpoena or notice to appear at trial on a non-party would be inadequate to support contempt proceedings, particularly criminal contempt, even here in California. However, substitute service giving actual notice to the non-party might be sufficient to cause the non-party to either 1) honor the subpoena or 2) appear in court to contest/quash the subpoena at which time they could be personally served with a fresh subpoena. Or it might not be sufficient and the non-party might simply ignore it despite having actual knowledge of it.

With regard to the civil defamation lawsuit currently pending against Casey Anthony, in which Ms. Anthony not only appeared but even filed an affirmative cross-complaint, it seems like service of legal process on Ms. Anthony's civil attorneys ought to be sufficient. Of course, you would know better than I if Florida has some special rules about having to personally serve legal process on parties who are represented by attorneys.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Please forgive me if this has already been asked and answered. Can Casey be held accountable for improper disposal of a body in relation to Caylee?

No, double jeopardy protects her from any trial at this point relating to the neglect, murder, disposal, etc. of Caylee.

Hopefully she will be held accountable in her nightmares for a lifetime, though.

It puzzles me why they didn't make that one of the charges in the first place. Could they have charged her with that or something similar, plus all the things they did charge her with?

Is there no law in Florida about not reporting a death ("she drowned in the pool")? I know Caylee's law is a good start about about not reporting someone missing immediately, but Caylee wasn't missing. Shouldn't Caylee's Law include that people should report a death? Although I'm almost sure I heard some legal person claim in the Anthony case that it isn't against the law to ignore a dead body!

Just recently, a man was found dismembered and stored in an ice chest. His daughter and her roommate were being charged with improper disposal of a dead body, along with his death, I think.

Surely, it can't be okay to just walk over a corpse and ignore it? Which begs me to wonder, if that's so, why are there laws in favor of morticians and how a body must go through their care, not to mention embalming practices claimed to prevent disease? Am I making my thoughts clear?

BTW, thanks to all our lovely attorneys for contributing to our legal threads. :woohoo:

 

[AZlawyer]

It puzzles me why they didn't make that one of the charges in the first place. Could they have charged her with that or something similar, plus all the things they did charge her with?

Is there no law in Florida about not reporting a death ("she drowned in the pool")? I know Caylee's law is a good start about about not reporting someone missing immediately, but Caylee wasn't missing. Shouldn't Caylee's Law include that people should report a death? Although I'm almost sure I heard some legal person claim in the Anthony case that it isn't against the law to ignore a dead body!

Just recently, a man was found dismembered and stored in an ice chest. His daughter and her roommate were being charged with improper disposal of a dead body, along with his death, I think.

Surely, it can't be okay to just walk over a corpse and ignore it? Which begs me to wonder, if that's so, why are there laws in favor of morticians and how a body must go through their care, not to mention embalming practices claimed to prevent disease? Am I making my thoughts clear?

BTW, thanks to all our lovely attorneys for contributing to our legal threads. :woohoo:

We looked up the Florida law on this a long time ago. I can't remember specifically what law(s) we decided might apply, but it/they were misdemeanors IIRC. Nothing serious.

 

[princesspjs]

We looked up the Florida law on this a long time ago. I can't remember specifically what law(s) we decided might apply, but it/they were misdemeanors IIRC. Nothing serious.

Thanks for looking into it, that's interesting that there were only misdemeanors possible.

But...if they would involve jail time, I'd be all for her getting held accountable to each and every charge they can give her...one year here and one year there could add up to at least some inconvenient jail time and more probation. I like it when she's inconvenienced and incarcerated.

 

[AZlawyer]

Thanks for looking into it, that's interesting that there were only misdemeanors possible.

But...if they would involve jail time, I'd be all for her getting held accountable to each and every charge they can give her...one year here and one year there could add up to at least some inconvenient jail time and more probation. I like it when she's inconvenienced and incarcerated.

Yes, I know what you mean. But they couldn't charge her with anything relating to Caylee's abuse/death/disposal now, due to double jeopardy issues.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Yes, I know what you mean. But they couldn't charge her with anything relating to Caylee's abuse/death/disposal now, due to double jeopardy issues.

Hello Caylee Warriors...I'm back after my long hiatus..the felon's acquittal really got to me and Caylee's injustice from those pinellas 12....Caylee's injustice are on the hands of that jury...they didn't even use common sense nor did they apply critical thinking...I was reeling with anger when those jurors spoke..one said, they couldn't decide WHO last had custody of Caylee..Why didn't they ask to review evidence...the felons statment right there would have told them..I just believe they were lazy and didn't due their due diligence as their civil duty expects...but Karma is still there to get her when all else fails...

She can still be tried on the Federal level for the death of Caylee...I wonder why they haven't? :maddening:

I also have my doubts with this civil lawsuit...although she needs to answer but wont...:banghead:

 

[Solace]

Hello Caylee Warriors...I'm back after my long hiatus..the felon's acquittal really got to me and Caylee's injustice from those pinellas 12....Caylee's injustice are on the hands of that jury...they didn't even use common sense nor did they apply critical thinking...I was reeling with anger when those jurors spoke..one said, they couldn't decide WHO last had custody of Caylee..Why didn't they ask to review evidence...the felons statment right there would have told them..I just believe they were lazy and didn't due their due diligence as their civil duty expects...but Karma is still there to get her when all else fails...

She can still be tried on the Federal level for the death of Caylee...I wonder why they haven't? :maddening:

I also have my doubts with this civil lawsuit...although she needs to answer but wont...:banghead:

She can't be tried on Federal level. No federal crime. She didn't bring Caylee across state lines, she did not kidnap her, nothing.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

She can't be tried on Federal level. No federal crime. She didn't bring Caylee across state lines, she did not kidnap her, nothing.

Well...the cases I have seen for a trial in fed court were brought for violations of civil rights. Caylee did have civil rights. The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. She got none of those.

 

[AZlawyer]

Hello Caylee Warriors...I'm back after my long hiatus..the felon's acquittal really got to me and Caylee's injustice from those pinellas 12....Caylee's injustice are on the hands of that jury...they didn't even use common sense nor did they apply critical thinking...I was reeling with anger when those jurors spoke..one said, they couldn't decide WHO last had custody of Caylee..Why didn't they ask to review evidence...the felons statment right there would have told them..I just believe they were lazy and didn't due their due diligence as their civil duty expects...but Karma is still there to get her when all else fails...

She can still be tried on the Federal level for the death of Caylee...I wonder why they haven't? :maddening:

I also have my doubts with this civil lawsuit...although she needs to answer but wont...:banghead:

She can't be tried on Federal level. No federal crime. She didn't bring Caylee across state lines, she did not kidnap her, nothing.

Well...the cases I have seen for a trial in fed court were brought for violations of civil rights. Caylee did have civil rights. The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. She got none of those.

Casey cannot be tried at the federal level for Caylee's death because there was no federal crime. Private persons are not responsible for violations of federal civil rights--only governments can violate civil rights.

Casey could possibly be prosecuted for lying to the FBI, however.

 

[Solace]

Casey cannot be tried at the federal level for Caylee's death because there was no federal crime. Private persons are not responsible for violations of federal civil rights--only governments can violate civil rights.

Casey could possibly be prosecuted for lying to the FBI, however.

I always wondered about that AZ, but she never really said what happened to the FBI - remember she would not talk without her lawyer and she simply said I know in my gut she is alive. She lied to detectives, but her conversation with the FBI was minimal and I don't think it is going to happen. I think it would have happened by now. Thanks for your post.

 

[AZlawyer]

I always wondered about that AZ, but she never really said what happened to the FBI - remember she would not talk without her lawyer and she simply said I know in my gut she is alive. She lied to detectives, but her conversation with the FBI was minimal and I don't think it is going to happen. I think it would have happened by now. Thanks for your post.

I agree. I don't think it will happen, because she was so vague.

 

[bayouland]

Reference below. Is it normal to file for an extension of time the same day an initial brief is due? Seems so arrogant as if they are sure it will be granted.

Florida Fifth District Court of Appeal Docket
Case Docket
Case Number: 5D11-2357

03/14/2012 ORD-Grant EOT Supplemental ROA 03/08/2012 TO 3/8 (DATE RECEIVED);INIT BRF BY 4/9

04/09/2012 Mot. for Extension of time to file Initial Brief Appellant

Thanks in advance,

 

[AZlawyer]

Reference below. Is it normal to file for an extension of time the same day an initial brief is due? Seems so arrogant as if they are sure it will be granted.

Florida Fifth District Court of Appeal Docket
Case Docket
Case Number: 5D11-2357

03/14/2012 ORD-Grant EOT Supplemental ROA 03/08/2012 TO 3/8 (DATE RECEIVED);INIT BRF BY 4/9

04/09/2012 Mot. for Extension of time to file Initial Brief Appellant

Thanks in advance,

It isn't too unusual, but normally means that the attorney is pretty confident that the extension will be granted. Could be something like a delay with the court reporter finishing the transcript--something that the attorney can't reasonably be blamed for.

 

[grammieto5]

If there were no arrest, but there claims of abuse, would pictures, xrays, blood samples be taken ? thank you I am referring to the Trayvon Martin case.

 

[AZlawyer]

If there were no arrest, but there claims of abuse, would pictures, xrays, blood samples be taken ? thank you I am referring to the Trayvon Martin case.

This thread is for the Caylee Anthony case. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "claims of abuse," but I understand there was an autopsy done on Trayvon so there should be a lot of evidence of the condition of his body.