Leslie Van Houten up for parole again

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LinasK said:
Her being a danger isn't the issue, it's that she didn't serve her full sentence for the viciousness of her crimes. She originally received the Death Penalty. Her cohort Susan Atkins died in prison. That's what she deserved.
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Yes, I agree, that why I said she shouldn’t have been paroled. But now that she has, I don’t think she is likely to reoffend. I do think she has learned some hard life lessons and has matured from her younger self.
 
IzzyBlanche said:
w add to my previous post:

I still believe that LVH would have been paroled for her crime long ago had it not been attached to the infamy of Manson.

As I said, people who have committed equally or more heinous crimes have been paroled much earlier than she was.
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JMO, I think she likely would have been paroled by now if not for her connection to Manson as well. But she was connected to Manson, by her own, free choice. I hope she doesn't go down in history as the woman who "righteously" fought for her parole.

IMO, she got a huge break when the law changed and she subsequently was able to go for parole. Isn't that about the time that Leslie suddenly got her "sh**" together and started showing all of these rehab efforts with her goal clearly being to try to gain a parole? JMO, I think she is a sociopath and a smart one at that and those types can make very good con artists.

JMO
 
She would have been paroled 20 years ago if this case wasn’t so high-profile and it didn’t turn into a political thing to prevent her release.

She did 54 years for doing a horrible thing as a teenager. She didn’t get off lightly.
 
LinasK said:
It wasn't a "mistake"! She willingly went knowing that she was going to murder people and she was vicious- 16 stab wounds. She felt that she missed out on the fun of the Tate murders. She's admitted this in interviews. She was sentenced to the Death Penalty. She deserves to die in prison for her crime as Susan Atkins did. That's my opinion, and it's never going to change. And I too have studied this case since it happened, I was living in LA at the time.
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I too have followed this crime since it was first reported, yeah, I'm old. She needs to die in prison.
 
Melquiades said:
She would have been paroled 20 years ago if this case wasn’t so high-profile and it didn’t turn into a political thing to prevent her release.

She did 54 years for doing a horrible thing as a teenager. She didn’t get off lightly.
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Keeping a convicted murderer in prison isn't "political"!
 
LinasK said:
Keeping a convicted murderer in prison isn't "political"!
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Of course it can be.

If she had done a ton of acid in 1969 and stabbed her husband 14 times to death but the crime really didn't make headlines, she would have been out 20+ years sooner for basically the same crime, and the only reason she was in prison this long is that the Manson crimes are so notorious and politicians feared looking 'weak on crime' if they accepted her parole recommendation.
 
Wonder when we will see her book come out, along with TV interviews and publicity. Her lawyers will no doubt also be suing the state for wrongful conviction and imprisonment in an attempt to get her record expunged, etc. etc.
 
TDoc72 said:
Yes, I agree, that why I said she shouldn’t have been paroled. But now that she has, I don’t think she is likely to reoffend. I do think she has learned some hard life lessons and has matured from her younger self.
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The fact that she's not likely to reoffend and that she's learned lessons and has matured, those reasons are precisely why she should be paroled. If we're going to have parole as part of our justice system, I think the parole board's decisions should stand. I know this is a very unpopular opinion, particularly where this ex-con is concerned. But the governor is driven primarily, imo, by the desire to be re-elected. These parole cases serve to help that cause, if he steps in and reverses the parole board's decision.

The woman lived an exemplary life in prison. If parole is for those who have demonstrated reform, then she should have qualified and been released upon the board's first recommendation.

On the other hand, we could eliminate parole as part of our justice system, and the number of years one gets is the number of years one will serve.

No matter what we do, it won't satisfy everyone. The victims' families, of course, will very rarely want the perp released, no matter how he or she has changed.

Meanwhile, the quality and availability of prison programs is abysmal, corruption is rampant, private companies continue to look to leverage every angle to make more off the incarcerated and their families, the length of sentences far exceeds most other developed countries, and the crime rate is soaring. It's a real cluster.

From a societal perspective, I'd much rather have a reformed prisoner out and contributing to society than inside. But, my family member wasn't murdered by this group, and I know I can't imagine their pain and sorrow. I do wonder though if the pain is worse now or if it's always been equally terrible?

I have opinions on the death penalty, but I'm sure the proverbial pitchforks are already coming out. I'll save that for another day.
 
Melquiades said:
Of course it can be.

If she had done a ton of acid in 1969 and stabbed her husband 14 times to death but the crime really didn't make headlines, she would have been out 20+ years sooner for basically the same crime, and the only reason she was in prison this long is that the Manson crimes are so notorious and politicians feared looking 'weak on crime' if they accepted her parole recommendation.
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I’d like to know the parole stats on others that were convicted of murder around the same time as LVH. I agree that she stayed so long as different governors didn’t want to be the one that paroled someone connected to Manson.
 
GoBuckeyes said:
The fact that she's not likely to reoffend and that she's learned lessons and has matured, those reasons are precisely why she should be paroled. If we're going to have parole as part of our justice system, I think the parole board's decisions should stand. I know this is a very unpopular opinion, particularly where this ex-con is concerned. But the governor is driven primarily, imo, by the desire to be re-elected. These parole cases serve to help that cause, if he steps in and reverses the parole board's decision.

The woman lived an exemplary life in prison. If parole is for those who have demonstrated reform, then she should have qualified and been released upon the board's first recommendation.

On the other hand, we could eliminate parole as part of our justice system, and the number of years one gets is the number of years one will serve.

No matter what we do, it won't satisfy everyone. The victims' families, of course, will very rarely want the perp released, no matter how he or she has changed.

Meanwhile, the quality and availability of prison programs is abysmal, corruption is rampant, private companies continue to look to leverage every angle to make more off the incarcerated and their families, the length of sentences far exceeds most other developed countries, and the crime rate is soaring. It's a real cluster.

From a societal perspective, I'd much rather have a reformed prisoner out and contributing to society than inside. But, my family member wasn't murdered by this group, and I know I can't imagine their pain and sorrow. I do wonder though if the pain is worse now or if it's always been equally terrible?

I have opinions on the death penalty, but I'm sure the proverbial pitchforks are already coming out. I'll save that for another day.
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no pitchfork here...I respect your opinion. LVH was in a controlled environment and knew she could be paroled one day....perfecting her behaviour had an end game...violating prison rules has consequences ..new attorney worked on her image which she was out on bail in IIRC 1978, she had tons of interviews....physical appearance altered, etc and a new defense: Mrs LB postmortem wounds were now her's..she was already dead. nevermind premeditation, intent, participation and efforts to eliminate evidence. but there it was.

Parole Hear 2016: she was recommended for ELDERLY PAROLE. linking the hearing transcript solely for awareness as to, although years ago, her choice of penpals and her marriage during her incarceration which IMO is still relevant.

Parole Hearing: Leslie Van Houten 2016 | Cielodrive.com

www.cielodrive.com

she blames the prison system for allowing her to receive mail from Manson over the years. she downplays how often. but stated the most recent one was received during the period of her last parole hearing 2013. she says she read it, and stated he is still trying to control me....ummm....also says I think someone else wrote it......so why would she read them???? why?

they bought up the fact she was corresponding with a murderer for 16 years with a life sentence in another state, until his death 15-20 years ago. Michael Vines. they wanted her to explain her choice of penpals, aligning herself with a fellow murderer to begin with...in addition, her marriage to another criminal in the 80's and had conjugal visits with him. the marriage only lasted a few months. she says she realized he wasnt rehabilitated. nevermind he was found to possess a women guard's prison uniform, could have been indicative of a 'plan' for her...so that abruptly ended.....which is a big hmmmm. because she chose this man with a criminal past to begin with IS the issue.

she also downplayed the penpal relationship with Vines, yet HIS FAMILY notified her when he died that he killed himself in prison. of course, people would say, well, they couldnt do any harm both being incarcerated. but what is central to her claim of rehabilitation and accountability is who she chooses for camaraderie. and now that she's out....careful associations for sure at first...
 
Pruddennce said:
no pitchfork here...I respect your opinion. LVH was in a controlled environment and knew she could be paroled one day....perfecting her behaviour had an end game...violating prison rules has consequences ..new attorney worked on her image which she was out on bail in IIRC 1978, she had tons of interviews....physical appearance altered, etc and a new defense: Mrs LB postmortem wounds were now her's..she now claims she 'thinks' she was already dead. nevermind premeditation, intent, participation and efforts to eliminate evidence. but there it was.

Parole Hear 2016: she was recommended for ELDERLY PAROLE. linking the hearing transcript solely for awareness as to, although years ago, her choice of penpals and her marriage during her incarceration which IMO is still relevant.

Parole Hearing: Leslie Van Houten 2016 | Cielodrive.com

www.cielodrive.com

she blames the prison system for allowing her to receive mail from Manson over the years. she downplays how often. but stated the most recent one was received during the period of her last parole hearing 2013. she says she read it, and stated he is still trying to control me....ummm....also says I think someone else wrote it......so why would she read them???? why?

they bought up the fact she was corresponding with a murderer for 16 years with a life sentence in another state, until his death 15-20 years ago. Michael Vines. they wanted her to explain her choice of penpals, aligning herself with a fellow murderer to begin with...in addition, her marriage to another criminal in the 80's and had conjugal visits with him. the marriage only lasted a few months. she says she realized he wasnt rehabilitated. nevermind he was found to possess a women guard's prison uniform, could have been indicative of a 'plan' for her...so that abruptly ended.....which is a big hmmmm. because she chose this man with a criminal past to begin with IS the issue.

she also downplayed the penpal relationship with Vines, yet HIS FAMILY notified her when he died that he killed himself in prison. of course, people would say, well, they couldnt do any harm both being incarcerated. but what is central to her claim of rehabilitation and accountability is who she chooses for camaraderie. and now that she's out....careful associations for sure at first...
Click to expand...
 
GoBuckeyes said:
The fact that she's not likely to reoffend and that she's learned lessons and has matured, those reasons are precisely why she should be paroled. If we're going to have parole as part of our justice system, I think the parole board's decisions should stand. I know this is a very unpopular opinion, particularly where this ex-con is concerned. But the governor is driven primarily, imo, by the desire to be re-elected. These parole cases serve to help that cause, if he steps in and reverses the parole board's decision.

The woman lived an exemplary life in prison. If parole is for those who have demonstrated reform, then she should have qualified and been released upon the board's first recommendation.

On the other hand, we could eliminate parole as part of our justice system, and the number of years one gets is the number of years one will serve.

No matter what we do, it won't satisfy everyone. The victims' families, of course, will very rarely want the perp released, no matter how he or she has changed.

Meanwhile, the quality and availability of prison programs is abysmal, corruption is rampant, private companies continue to look to leverage every angle to make more off the incarcerated and their families, the length of sentences far exceeds most other developed countries, and the crime rate is soaring. It's a real cluster.

From a societal perspective, I'd much rather have a reformed prisoner out and contributing to society than inside. But, my family member wasn't murdered by this group, and I know I can't imagine their pain and sorrow. I do wonder though if the pain is worse now or if it's always been equally terrible?

I have opinions on the death penalty, but I'm sure the proverbial pitchforks are already coming out. I'll save that for another day.
Click to expand...

I'm ambivalent about her getting parole: On one hand she has served 53 years- that is just a huge amount of years-- On the other hand she got the death penalty which was rescinded so she could have gotten life without parole. I believe she is not a threat to society any longer and she is probably rehabilitated to a great degree. The issue really is that she committed a horrendous crime and the issue is the level of punishment that she should get. I remain ambivalent: I know if it were my relative she murdered I would want her in prison until she died.
 
This really does highlight the issue of whether prisons are supposed to be punitive and punishing, or an opportunity for growth, education, and rehabilitation. You really can't do both at the same time.

And, with a surging prison population, especially as the population of incarcerated gets older, with more complicated medical issues, it is another societal ethics issue, are people who are incarcerated entitled to advanced medical care and medication provided by the government? Possibly even better than what is available for citizens who are not incarcerated?

Case in point, my Mom is about the same age as LVH. She gets social security, and literally cannot afford a prescription plan to supplement her Medicare. I pay for it. Yet, people who are incarcerated, get meds provided free of charge.

LVH has probably never worked a day in her life, she has been fed, housed, provided for by the government.

Now, released, she will be eligible for social security benefits and Medicare, same as my Mother, who worked for over 45 years. LVH will probably get more benefits, subsidized housing, which my mother missed eligibility for, because she gets $15 too much in Social Security benefits.
 
ilovewings said:
I'm ambivalent about her getting parole: On one hand she has served 53 years- that is just a huge amount of years-- On the other hand she got the death penalty which was rescinded so she could have gotten life without parole. I believe she is not a threat to society any longer and she is probably rehabilitated to a great degree. The issue really is that she committed a horrendous crime and the issue is the level of punishment that she should get. I remain ambivalent: I know if it were my relative she murdered I would want her in prison until she died.
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If it were my relative, I would, too. When her death sentence was overturned, why wasn't she given life without parole? Then this would all be moot.
 
ilovewings said:
I'm ambivalent about her getting parole: On one hand she has served 53 years- that is just a huge amount of years-- On the other hand she got the death penalty which was rescinded so she could have gotten life without parole. I believe she is not a threat to society any longer and she is probably rehabilitated to a great degree. The issue really is that she committed a horrendous crime and the issue is the level of punishment that she should get. I remain ambivalent: I know if it were my relative she murdered I would want her in prison until she died.
Click to expand...
In 1972 all of the people who were sentenced to death in California had their sentences reduced to life with parole. Life without parole was not an option.
In February 1972, the California Supreme Court found that the death penalty constituted cruel and unusual punishment under the California state constitution and 107 condemned inmates were resentenced to life with the possibility of parole and removed from California’s death row.
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www.cdcr.ca.gov

History of Capital Punishment in California - Capital Punishment

Legal executions in California were authorized under the Criminal Practices Act of 1851. On February 14, 1872, capital punishment was incorporated into the Pena
www.cdcr.ca.gov www.cdcr.ca.gov
 
lonetraveler said:
I guess "Tex" Watson and Patricia Krenwinkel will be next for release.
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I wouldn't doubt it lonetraveler. At this point, nothing would surprise me. I can't believe she is out.

Tex Watson should never be released, he is an evil man. He can flaunt religion all he wants, but he disgusts me. It boils down to a power struggle between Watson and Manson, and innocent people paid with their lives. Manson was manipulative as is Watson.
 
Richard said:
Wonder when we will see her book come out, along with TV interviews and publicity. Her lawyers will no doubt also be suing the state for wrongful conviction and imprisonment in an attempt to get her record expunged, etc. etc.
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I would advise her to go hide under a rock and try no such thing...and to stay away from (she doesn't even know what coke is let alone crack, meth, and bath salts...fentanyl..
.she's been in jail that long)...and any form of prostitution... book poem podcast whatever.

Someone is going to give that b_tch a bunch of money to talk for a hour or two while the rest of us go to work and work hard everyday!

I hope she impales herself on one of her crutches...
 
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