Let this be the year the Sumter County Does are identified..

Discussion in 'Mystery couple murdered South Carolina 1976' started by Dee Deforest, Dec 27, 2019.

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Who do you think this couple is?

  1. Sumter County Does

    2 vote(s)
    66.7%
  2. Mystery Couple

    1 vote(s)
    33.3%
  1. Dee Deforest

    Dee Deforest Well-Known Member

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    I have never posted here before, so if I get it wrong please delete. I am obsessed with this case, and have been for years. This case and Jack the Ripper are the two that I always keep going back to. Of course solving Jack is pretty much out of reach, but this one seems so solvable.

    I personally think some of the crazy random outlandish theories may be part of the problem. First I'll start with the couple from Oregon (Michael & Cordelia McMinn), Jane does have a slight resemblance to Cordelia, but Jack/Jacques looks nothing like Michael... Michael's brother doesn't believe it's him either.

    Then there's the couple from Argentina (Cesar & Maria Lugones), ok this one really makes me crazy! Once again Jane does have a slight resemblance to Maria but Cesar dosen't look a thing like Jack. The biggest flaw of this theory is that not one person mentioned a accent? In the south in the 1970's, I think it would have been one of the first thing noticed?

    The racing theory is quite interesting, I used to think it was a total red herring but now I'm not so sure? I do believe he could have picked up that racing shirt anywhere ... The only reason I give any credence to this theory is from discussing it with locals on Reddit, but who knows?

    A lot if people think they're French Canadian, but once again I don't think so because of the accents. As far as the stories he told along the way, were they true or littered with spots of truth?

    Thanks for reading my ramblings on this case, and I would so love to hear any theories you may have.
     
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  2. Triss

    Triss Well-Known Member

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    Hi Dee Deforest, thanks for posting!
    The McMinns have been ruled out as being the Sumter couple.
    I agree with you on how Cesar Lugones and Jock Doe don't look alike at all. I've never seen the resemblance between them. To me, the whole Argentina theory revolves around Maria Marta and Jane looking very much alike. Maria doesn't have the moles on the cheek that are so prominent on Jane's face and I find it hard to believe she and her husband would escape military arrest and end up murdered a few months later on a different continent.
    You raise an excellent argument about the couple's accents. I've always believed they come from an English speaking country because otherwise the witnesses would have reported at least one of them speaking with a foreign accent/broken English. I'm not sure if I believe the KOA guy and his story about becoming Jock's friend (and not mentioning Jane at all), but I believe the witness who sold food to the couple at the fruit stand. I'm fairly confident the witness would have mentioned a foreign accent if the couple spoke with one.
    My hope is that with the DNA Doe Project involved, the couple will have their names back soon so their loved ones can have some much needed closure.
     
  3. Dee Deforest

    Dee Deforest Well-Known Member

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    Thank you so much for reading my ramblings on this case. It's been discussed quite a bit lately on Reddit, and it's just weighing heavy on my mind.

    Thank you for letting me know about the McMinns...I don't believe I knew that? I really just touched the surface on this case...so much just never made sense. I do believe they had the murderer but let him go? Why did they let him go? Some locals on Reddit, feel it was about drugs and racing....and they've known all along who they were? but once again, I'm not so sure?

    There's even a relatively new theory that Jock was stealing drugs from his the father (supposedly a dentist)... But once again, it just seems way to complicated and random? I also never bought the hitchhiker theory (who hitchhikes in those shoes!).
     
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  4. ntt1

    ntt1 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure that the accent thing is enough to rule out Jock being French Canadian; lots of people from Quebec (perhaps if the family was wealthy it may have some effect too) don't have noticeable accents when speaking English.
     
  5. Amstorrs

    Amstorrs Well-Known Member

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    https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3480163

    Not new to this case but new to this thread. This missing Canadian man came up in my search. He LOOKS like Jock Doe... especially the teeth.

    Forgive me if this has been discussed before.
     
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  6. Dee Deforest

    Dee Deforest Well-Known Member

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    Ricky's DNA was submitted and it's not him. I found this on a thread about Ricky.
     
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  7. SurrealisticSlumbers

    SurrealisticSlumbers Well-Known Member

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    The guy at the KOA Campground in Santee, David Batson, is now dead, so he can't be interviewed again, and the supposed murderer, Lonnie Henry, is also dead. The dead can't talk, as they say. There aren't any others remaining who were known to have come into contact with the couple during their travels, other than the person running the fruit stand, who may not even be alive, or if he is, may be elderly and senile.

    What infuriates me to no end is that Jacques Doe's teeth (on which the expensive, uncommon dental work was noted) were donated to a local school and eventually disposed of. A key piece of evidence, totally gone. :mad: There were many errors made early on that seriously hindered this case, but it was a different time.

    The DNA Doe Project is what's eventually going to crack this case wide open. DNA sequencing is the best hope this couple has of being identified. The "Lyle Stevik" suicide victim finally got identified via their efforts, and I think a few others as well. Can't beat DNA.

    Nearly everyone's given up their DNA in some way these days. Ever done one of those Ancestry DNA reports? You're in the system. I'm distantly related to tons of people out there, some of the folks I see popping up that I get matched to are from places like England. So, once again, the work DNA Doe Project is doing is going to be the best bet when it comes to solving this case once and for all. Someone out there is missing a brother or sister, a child, a niece or nephew, cousin...
     
  8. Onaliv

    Onaliv Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree that DNA is the best hope.

    Have often wondered if the killer(s) had some knowledge that they wouldn’t be missed or looked for resulting in having left them in the wide open (versus burying or otherwise trying to conceal them). If not for the pistol connected to Lee, my gut would say they were killed by a transient versus a local, someone not afraid of being caught.
     
  9. SurrealisticSlumbers

    SurrealisticSlumbers Well-Known Member

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    It could have very well been a random act of violence by a non-local... someone else just passing through... I think (but may be wrong on this) that Henry Lee Lucas was considered briefly. However, he was found to have been in another state during the time that the couple was murdered.

    Whoever the killer was, they clearly didn't see the use in burying the bodies. This could mean a lot of things. Again, Lonnie Henry had the gun but said his brother Jim had given it to him, but he'd gotten it from some group of robbers from the Raleigh-Durham area, who had stolen it from some unnamed individual. Very hard to ascertain who had possession of the gun at the time of the murders.

    Nowadays, the bodies would be dusted for identifiable prints, but this doesn't seem to have been done with any regularity back in those days - or maybe the technology wasn't there yet. My instinct is that they were yanked into their captor's car, maybe held at gunpoint, driven out to the isolated road, and then pushed out of the car and shot in their backs as they attempted to run off. The killer then got out, walked over to their bodies and shot them both in the chest and throat for good measure. Other than that, they were not beaten or sexually assaulted in any way, so it doesn't look like the work of a psycho.

    Given that the town's officials and leading citizens were apparently involved in hiring hitmen, organized crime and other illegal doings, the person could have been respected in the community and able to buy off law enforcement if he came under any suspicion.
     
  10. Melt71

    Melt71 Well-Known Member

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    Any idea what the hold-up is on getting their files started with DDP? @Liv27? Anyone?
     
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  11. Liv27

    Liv27 Well-Known Member

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    No idea. Could be anything really. Swimsuit Boy tools months to get out of the extraction pending stage.
     
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  12. Fede

    Fede Well-Known Member

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    This theory can be completely discarded. María Marta and Cesar were kidnapped by the militar forces after the 1976 Coup in Argentina. They were sin alive in a concentration camp as many during the genocide. A militar said that she gave birth in January 1977. After that , they were both killed. Here is a link: Desaparecidos: Maria Marta Vasquez y Cesar Lugones
     
  13. thejeangenie

    thejeangenie Member

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    Fascinating case. Gets my vote for one that will remain a mystery till the end of time.
     
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  14. Brambu

    Brambu New Member

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    I live 40mins from Sumter and just heard about this story today on Crime Junkie podcast. I saw another theory it could be a missing kid from Canada...Jacques Chaput. Anyone else know if this has been a possible link??
     

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  15. Laughing

    Laughing Rarely Speechless

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  16. Brambu

    Brambu New Member

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