Lloyd Welch is Person of Interest

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I am more thinking that Welch had a connection to one of the houses in the neighborhood---a friend of a friend who had access to a basement or something along those lines. That would also tie in with his familiarity in coming back later to rob the house on Hobson. Maybe he had a buddy who clued him in to when people were on vacation for instance.

At first I did not like your connection-to-someone in neighborhood theory since when I was young, I did not know anyone who would give me or anyone I knew a key or on-my-own access to their place.

But then I thought that I was not a near-homeless teenager willing to trade drugs, shoplifted goods or even sex for a place to sleep.

Welch, with his alcoholic father killing his mother in a car wreck, had a rough childhood, but does anyone know if Welch was sexually abused when young (which often teaches them to do the same years later) or if Welch was bisexual (it's almost always a man doing the abuse)?

I could see some homosexual letting Welch sleep on his couch and bed. I can't really see someone with enough on the ball to have an apartment being Welch's lookout for houses to rob. But this is just a theory.
 
I am more thinking that Welch had a connection to one of the houses in the neighborhood---a friend of a friend who had access to a basement or something along those lines. .

There is and was since the 1960s a 200+ unit apartment building near (hidden from view) the train tracks which Welch walked on, the Kensington House Apartments.

http://www.apartmentshowcase.com/details/maryland/kensington/the-kensington-house/2776

It would be a step up from Welch's loser, hanging-out in the woods, crowd, but I suppose he could have known someone in the apartments.
 
Regarding Welch; Montgomery County Police may have more on him than they have released to the public, but they can't seem to even get his age right. Depending on what police generated document you look at he was either 17, 18, or 22 in 1975.

Welch, a person with a warrant out (and still out?) for him for driving without a license might lie to the police about his name, age, and address. I would hope the police got it right by now.

I was sort of surprised when the day after Welch was announced as the person of interest, the local Washington, DC area news reported other more serious discrepancies such as:

"In doing our records check, Montgomery County police could not explain a discrepancy in the timeline they provided to reporters.

It says Welch was convicted of sexually assaulting a 9-year-old girl in 1995 but the commonwealth’s attorney in Prince William County, Paul Ebert, could not find a record of the crime or even Welch's name in their files."

From : http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/2...ifters-movements-solve-lyon-sisters-cold-case

I think there was another discrepancy with another of his crimes. I guess the next day the reporters went looking for his criminal history for a next-day story and were rather upset at finding little so they reported finding little.

I still have seen little of his criminal history. Were they really violent assaults and a robbery (with a deadly weapon) or was he just trying to drive past a security guard to avoid being detained for shoplifting? Was his attempt to avoid prison by claiming (unsuccessfully) "not guilty by reason of insanity" just a legal ploy or did he have violent anger problems?
 
Welch, a person with a warrant out (and still out?) for him for driving without a license might lie to the police about his name, age, and address. I would hope the police got it right by now.

I was sort of surprised when the day after Welch was announced as the person of interest, the local Washington, DC area news reported other more serious discrepancies such as:

"In doing our records check, Montgomery County police could not explain a discrepancy in the timeline they provided to reporters.

It says Welch was convicted of sexually assaulting a 9-year-old girl in 1995 but the commonwealth’s attorney in Prince William County, Paul Ebert, could not find a record of the crime or even Welch's name in their files."

From : http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/2...ifters-movements-solve-lyon-sisters-cold-case

I think there was another discrepancy with another of his crimes. I guess the next day the reporters went looking for his criminal history for a next-day story and were rather upset at finding little so they reported finding little.

I still have seen little of his criminal history. Were they really violent assaults and a robbery (with a deadly weapon) or was he just trying to drive past a security guard to avoid being detained for shoplifting? Was his attempt to avoid prison by claiming (unsuccessfully) "not guilty by reason of insanity" just a legal ploy or did he have violent anger problems?

--------------------

You bring up some concerning discrepancies and some good points. I do not know the answers.

Sometimes there are some good bits of information contained in appeal decisions which are public information , and often available on line.

Specifically, in this case, because Welch pled insanity, it is likely that a court appointed Psychiatrist report, as well as a Defense Psychiatrist report exists in the public record. Often an appeal decision refers to those reports and contains excerpts from them. Police investigators should have access to them in their entirety - and statements made by Welch in those documents could be used against him as evidence.

As to Welch's birthdate/age, that is something that MCP could have checked out fairly quickly in a number of different ways. It does make some difference, though. If Welch was 17 at the time, he was a minor. If 18 or 22, an adult. Also, one might think an older person more capable of an abduction or murder than a younger guy.

What was Welch's schooling background? What about his juvenile record? Given the possible age of Welch in 1975, that would be very important information.

Concerning his possible mental problems - what has his record been while in prison? Certainly there has been a long time to observe him and his behaviors to date.
 
Why, if Welch was seen following and bothering the girls in the mall, and was approached by mall security, would he then continue to follow them on foot for another 10 to 15 minutes through Kensington, only to accost them in the wooded area near their home?

Likely because Welch was only planing to talk to them, smoke some pot or drink, and see how friendly he could get with them. A fight may have broke out when Welch overplayed his hand kissing or touching too much; a fight that turned fatal.

I am not sure if looking at someone is "bothering" them and I am not sure if he was approached by mall security that day about the girls; he may have been approached by security some other day or just watched as a potential shoplifter.

If the plan was a murder and abduction all along, it does not make sense for either Welch or Tape Recorder Man to proceed after being spotted. Frankly, it looks like Tape Recorder Man did not care about being spotted, which makes me think he was not part of any murder plan.

Speaking of odds, with Welch and the sisters frequenting the same mall, the probability is that they saw each other several times over a year. For all we know, Welch might have talked or tried to talk to them (said Hi) before.

With Welch and the sisters walking the same route to the mall and leaving at a similar time, there is a chance they would bump into each other eventually on the way to or from the mall.​
 
We know that Welch did NOT have a drivers license in 1977 and he was said to walk or hitch hike everywhere he went.

The FBI Timeline places him in Montgomery County Maryland in 1977 (which I assumed from from the traffic ticket)

From: http://www.fbi.gov/baltimore/press-...napping-of-lyon-sisters-others-victims-sought

November 1977 Address of 1825 Main St. in Orlando, Florida, provided to law enforcemet
November 24, 1977 Montgomery County, Maryland
March 13, 1980 North Miami Beach, Florida



While below(from/via Richard) places Welch in Maryland in 1979?

A Traffic violation from 1979. Note that the record shows Welch's DOB as December 1952. He had no drivers license in 1979. Note that he failed to show for court and the case is still listed as "Active".

0000004479046 Welch, Lloyd Lee 12/1952 Defendant Rockville District Court Traffic ACTIVE CASE 03/06/1979
DISTRICT COURT FOR MONTGOMERY COUNTY (ROCKVILLE) - TRAFFIC SYSTEM
Citation Number: 0000004479046
Case Status:ACTIVE CASE
Violation Date: 03/06/1979 Violation Time: 06:15 PM
Violation County: MONTGOMERY COUNTY (ROCKVILLE)

WELCH, LLOYD LEE
Address:18407 LOSTKNIFE CIR #202
City: GAITHERSBURG
State:MD
Zip Code: 20760

Race:WHITE,CAUCASIAN,ASIATIC INDIAN,ARAB
Sex:MHeight:509
Weight:165
DOB:12/1952

Charge Description: DRIVING WITHOUT LICENSE
Location Stopped: LOST KNIFE CIR
Fine: 250
Vehicle Tag: ECG856
State: MD
Vehicle Description: 77PONT03
Disposition InformationPlea:
Disposition: FAILURE TO APPEAR
Disposition Date: 06/21/1979
Sentence Date: 06/21/1979
Sentence Time: Yrs:00Mos:00Days:000
 
You are correct that the traffic violation for driving without a license was in 1979.

If he actually had been issued a license at any time prior to that, he could have gone into court, produced it, and the charge might have been dropped. He did not show at all, and was found guilty, given a $250 dollar fine and did not pay it.

Since he did not have a drivers license in 1979, I think it is a pretty sure bet that he did not have one in either 1975 or in 1977. This is something that would be easy for MCP or the FBI to check out. Since they never indicated that he had a valid drivers license in any of their reports, it is very probable that he never had one. An example:

November 1977 Address of 1825 Main St. in Orlando, Florida, provided to law enforcemet

This did not come from a driver's license, but rather from what Welch himself told police officers.
 
You are correct that the traffic violation for driving without a license was in 1979.

Is there a chance another Lloyd Lee Welch was driving without a license? As you noted the year of birth is off, but I think not the month of birth.

It's not a popular name but not an unknown name either. Just Googling Lloyd Lee Welch, there seems to be only a handful of much other men named "Lloyd Lee Welch" around the entire country.

Lloyd Lee Welch would seem like a difficult name for a third person to make up, but I assume if caught driving without a license the police just don't take your word for who you are?

If it was the same Lloyd Lee Welch driving without a license and living on Lost Knife Circle in 1979, he was LIVING ABOUT 500 yards from LakeForest Mall (a modern enclosed two-story mall), (see google map below) where there would have been women and girls of all ages every day. Lost Knife Circle was/is part part of Montgomery Village, which at that time had plenty of young kids. If it was him, it's pretty bad that the police left 1979 off the timeline or failed to investigate his activities in the neighborhood at the time.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&...s&ei=Iik7U_-3OcPNsQTa9oHgBw&ved=0CB0Q8gEoADAA
 
Also am I reading the police abbreviations that the car was a 77 Pontiac, a two-year old car in 79. Since he was not arrested for auto theft, someone must have lent it to him? Or he came up with enough money to buy a new or two year old car which does not sound like him.
 
Also am I reading the police abbreviations that the car was a 77 Pontiac, a two-year old car in 79. Since he was not arrested for auto theft, someone must have lent it to him? Or he came up with enough money to buy a new or two year old car which does not sound like him.

Maryland Judiciary records indicate the name of a witness in this case. He may have been the person who owned the car in question.

If Welch did not have drivers license, he could not have owned a properly registered car. He might legally OWN a car titled in Maryland, but he would need a drivers license to register it.

Again, any kind of DMV record search would have indicated any vehicles owned or registered by Welch. And any registration would show his Drivers license number.
 
0000004479046 Welch, Lloyd Lee 12/1952 Defendant Rockville District Court Traffic ACTIVE CASE 03/06/1979
DISTRICT COURT FOR MONTGOMERY COUNTY (ROCKVILLE) - TRAFFIC SYSTEM
Citation Number: 0000004479046
Case Status:ACTIVE CASE
Violation Date: 03/06/1979 Violation Time: 06:15 PM
Violation County: MONTGOMERY COUNTY (ROCKVILLE)

WELCH, LLOYD LEE
Address:18407 LOSTKNIFE CIR #202
City: GAITHERSBURG
State:MD
Zip Code: 20760

Race:WHITE,CAUCASIAN,ASIATIC INDIAN,ARAB
Sex:MHeight:509
Weight:165
DOB:12/1952

Charge Description: DRIVING WITHOUT LICENSE
Location Stopped: LOST KNIFE CIR
Fine: 250
Vehicle Tag: ECG856
State: MD
Vehicle Description: 77PONT03
Disposition InformationPlea:
Disposition: FAILURE TO APPEAR
Disposition Date: 06/21/1979
Sentence Date: 06/21/1979
Sentence Time: Yrs:00Mos:00Days:000

Related Person Information
Name:SIAVIN, EDWARD K
Connection:WITNESS FOR STATE
Address:2350 RESEARCH BLVD
City: ROCKVILLE
State:MD Zip
Code:20850

I would GUESS that the "related person"/"witness for the state" was the police officer giving Welch (hopefully the same Welch) the ticket since "2350 Research Blvd" is the address of the police station, which I think was in the same place in the 1970s. No I don't know the address of the police station by memory, but I know that Research Blvd. is not a residential street so I googled it.

If one does not have a drivers license and the name on the registration does not match your claimed name, I would think the police usually bring you to the station until the matter is cleared up? But the location of the ticket was on the same road that he lived on (Lost Knife Circle) so some other party might have vouched for him? If my memory, helped by Google Maps is correct, Lost Knife Circle is little more than a circular parking lot around the apartments; but I guess it was a road where a drivers license is required?

In any case, assuming it's the same Welch, it does show he could drive (without a license) and could borrow a car in 1979. But Gaithersburg is a good thirty minutes away from Kensington by car and an hour or two by public transportation.
 
I would hope the police already know since it's their traffic system, but they did leave Gaithersburg off Welch's known where-abouts timeline. It could be that the police know and determined it's a different Welch, with a different date of birth or the cops may have missed it in their search by since the date of birth was wrong. Or it could be just another discrepancy in their timeline, which they should correct.

If it was the same Welch, being only four years and ten miles from the Wheaton crime, I would assume there would be a chance some of his associations would overlap and it would be worth having the real police investigate.
 
From most reports, Welch was in and out of the area throughout the years. He was also in a number of other states in his wanderings or travels. Some addresses, investigators know about, others they do not. There are a lot of holes in and questions about the timeline. How police could positively place him at Wheaton Plaza on 25 March 1975 is a question only they can answer.
 
I spent my lunch reading the initial entries on this long thread when I noticed that in the first police "re-release" of the old sketch of the young Long Hair Main (LHM) the police were searching for the sketch's (Welch's?) identity.

If it's true that police did not know Welch's name as of November 23, 2013, but were looking for a suspect in sex assaults in 1. Wheaton, 2. Silver Spring, and 3. Takoma Park in the mid-70s as stated in the news report below, I would say they are three for three in areas Welch would walk around in and none that would require a car. It might establish a pattern that would support a sex assault gone wrong, but proving it is something else.

From: http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...Assault-Suspect-from-the-1970s-233116121.html

"Police in Montgomery County have released a sketch of a man sought in sex assaults during the mid-1970s, hoping the image will jog someone's memory of events four decades ago.

Detectives from the Montgomery County Cold Case Unit re-released the composite drawing Friday. The man shown is suspected in sexual assaults in Wheaton, Silver Spring and Takoma Park.

Detectives in the 1970s had spoken to a witness who described the man seen near an incident in Wheaton. The composite was created 30 years ago.

Detectives believe that there may be additional victims and say they hope any victims come forward.

The man was described (in the mid-1970s) as a white male, in his late teens or early-20s, 5 feet 11 inches tall, and weighing about 140 pounds. He had acne scars on the left side of his face.

Anyone with information regarding the identity of the subject is asked to contact the Cold Case Unit at 240-773-5070."
 
From most reports, Welch was in and out of the area throughout the years. He was also in a number of other states in his wanderings or travels. Some addresses, investigators know about, others they do not. There are a lot of holes in and questions about the timeline. How police could positively place him at Wheaton Plaza on 25 March 1975 is a question only they can answer.

Reading the early (old) posts on this thread, it appears someone else also noticed the discrepancy between this 1979 traffic ticket in Gaithersburg, and the lack it in the official know where-about. Also, unless the carnival stayed in one state, I would think there should be more locations. Other than seeing it here online (online not being too reliable) I can't vouch for the 1979 date and the police may already know about it, but perhaps someone should tell them?
 
Reading the early (old) posts on this thread, it appears someone else also noticed the discrepancy between this 1979 traffic ticket in Gaithersburg, and the lack it in the official know where-about. Also, unless the carnival stayed in one state, I would think there should be more locations. Other than seeing it here online (online not being too reliable) I can't vouch for the 1979 date and the police may already know about it, but perhaps someone should tell them?

The record of that 1979 Traffic Arrest came from Maryland Judiciary OnLine records. That site lists various types of Criminal and Civil cases and can be searched by name. Below is a link to the site.


http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiry-index.jsp
 
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Police-Release-Sketch-of-Sex-Assault-Suspect-from-the-1970s-233116121.html[/url]

"Police in Montgomery County have released a sketch of a man sought in sex assaults during the mid-1970s, hoping the image will jog someone's memory of events four decades ago.

Detectives from the Montgomery County Cold Case Unit re-released the composite drawing Friday. The man shown is suspected in sexual assaults in Wheaton, Silver Spring and Takoma Park.

Detectives in the 1970s had spoken to a witness who described the man seen near an incident in Wheaton. The composite was created 30 years ago.

Detectives believe that there may be additional victims and say they hope any victims come forward.

The man was described (in the mid-1970s) as a white male, in his late teens or early-20s, 5 feet 11 inches tall, and weighing about 140 pounds. He had acne scars on the left side of his face.

Anyone with information regarding the identity of the subject is asked to contact the Cold Case Unit at 240-773-5070."


Note that at one point in the above press release it states that police are hoping that the sketch will jog someone's memory of events that occurred nearly 4 decades (40 years) ago. And yet in another paragraph it is stated that the sketch was created 30 years ago.

Unless that is a mistatement or a typo, it would mean that the sketch was made in or about 1983 - Not in 1975.

Police have not been very clear at all regarding when the sketch was made or by whom. Not hard, since all police sketches by MCP were signed by the artist and given a serial number/date code written at the bottom of the sketch. That information has been cropped off all press release copies of the sketch that I have seen.

Clearly the 22 November 2013 "re-release" of this sketch was a fishing expedition, hoping to generate new leads in the Lyon case and/or other possible cases in the area.

Did the "re-release" of the sketch actually generate some information that positively connected Welch to Wheaton Plaza on 25 March 1975?

Did police know already on 22 November 2013 (through other means) that the sketch was that of Welch and were they just using the sketch - instead of an actual photo of Welch - to try and connect Welch to the Lyon Case? (Note that the November press release did NOT mention the Lyon Case by name.)

Did they already have positive proof that Welch was present at Wheaton Plaza on 25 March 1975, but were trying to confirm it using the sketch?

The 28 March 1975 sketch of the Tape Recorder Man (TRM) was made by PFC Davis Morton of MCP and released late on 31 March 1975. Officer Morton was interviewed a few days later after having worked with other eyewitnesses who reported such a man and after making a few minor changes to his origional TRM sketch. He did not mention any other suspect sketches in connection with the Lyon Case at that time.

Interestingly, the day prior to the February 2014 MCP/FBI joint press conference it was hinted to news media that a Person of Interest would be named, several Washington DC area TV stations had copies of the 1975 TRM sketch standing by and actually showed the TRM sketch during the MCP portion of the briefing up to the point when the Chief showed the new Sketch of the Long Haired Man and started comparing it with photos of Welch.

The reason for this was that the news media only had the TRM sketch in their files. The Long Haired Man (LHM) sketch was something new to them as it related to the Lyon Sisters' story.
 
Note that at one point in the above press release it states that police are hoping that the sketch will jog someone's memory of events that occurred nearly 4 decades (40 years) ago. And yet in another paragraph it is stated that the sketch was created 30 years ago.

Unless that is a mistatement or a typo, it would mean that the sketch was made in or about 1983 - Not in 1975.

Police have not been very clear at all regarding when the sketch was made or by whom. Not hard, since all police sketches by MCP were signed by the artist and given a serial number/date code written at the bottom of the sketch. That information has been cropped off all press release copies of the sketch that I have seen.

I think the "sketch was created 30 years ago" was just bad reporting that should have read OVER 30 years ago.

Better news reports from the same news day report it at over 35 years ago:

http://archive.wusa9.com/news/article/283731/373/Police-release-sketch-in-sex-assault-cold-case

The later press release from the police themselves states right below the sketch: "Sketch provided by witness who was at Wheaton Plaza on the day of the Lyon sisters disapperance. The witness stated that the person depicted in the sketch was fixated on the girls."
http://www.mymcpnews.com/2014/02/11...apping-of-lyon-sisters-others-victims-sought/

Clicking on the sketch on the above link leads to a slightly larger image of the sketch, where I think I can read the date of 3 - 2? - 75 and other information:
http://www.mymcpnews.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/Rendering_andText.jpg

I would imagine that the police had hundreds if not thousands of leads to track down from people at the mall, everyone one the sisters knew, everyone on the street home to every sex-criminal on the Eastern seaboard, but if the police passed on the long-hair man sketch without knowing his real name, I would think it would be a huge mistake.

I suppose the police might have had a limited "release" of the sketch either to people in the mall or to the media in 1975 without stating a connection to the Lyon sisters to avoid a media circus and too many wild tips. I suppose they might have avoided mentioning the Lyon case last November for the same reason. The police might have wanted to hold back photos of Welch to avoid contaminating any potential witnesses, since seeing a photo of Welch prior to a photo-line up would ruin the fairness any future lineup. Still the police directly imply if not outright state that they are looking for his identity in November of last year.
 
I think the "sketch was created 30 years ago" was just bad reporting that should have read OVER 30 years ago....

... Clicking on the sketch on the above link leads to a slightly larger image of the sketch, where I think I can read the date of 3 - 2? - 75 and other information:
http://www.mymcpnews.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/Rendering_andText.jpg

... I suppose the police might have had a limited "release" of the sketch either to people in the mall or to the media in 1975 without stating a connection to the Lyon sisters to avoid a media circus and too many wild tips. I suppose they might have avoided mentioning the Lyon case last November for the same reason. The police might have wanted to hold back photos of Welch to avoid contaminating any potential witnesses, since seeing a photo of Welch prior to a photo-line up would ruin the fairness any future lineup. Still the police directly imply if not outright state that they are looking for his identity in November of last year.

Thanks for the link. I was able to make out the name of the artist: PFC Davis Morton, and the date of 27 March 1975.

Interesting that this sketch was made the day before the Tape Recorder Man (TRM) Sketch by the same artist, and yet was never released to the news media. If it had been released, it definitely would have been published at the time.

As I mentioned in another post, it is possible that the police might not have considered this guy's "fixation" on the girls that day to have been significant enough to pursue, since other Known individuals also had noticed and watched the girls.

What possible excuse could MCP have for not releasing the LHM sketch in 1975? If they did have a limited showing of the sketch, why did they not pursue it? Perhaps they could not confirm the reported sighting of LHM by other witnesses.

In an interview to the news media in April 1975, Davis Morton comments on how strongly he felt that the TRM sketch was a good one because of all the tips it generated and how all the witnesses who claimed to have seen TRM felt the TRM sketch was accurate. He never mentions the LHM or any other sketch.

I think it quite possible that the LHM was overlooked in the crush of incoming calls, tips, and developments.
 
Thanks for the link. I was able to make out the name of the artist: PFC Davis Morton, and the date of 27 March 1975.

Looking at the timeline of Welch's known whereabouts, he did provide his address to the police a few days later on April 1, 1975.

From http://www.fbi.gov/baltimore/press-...napping-of-lyon-sisters-others-victims-sought
"Below is a timeline of Welch’s known whereabouts.

Date Location
January 9, 1974 Austin, Texas
March 25, 1975 Wheaton Plaza in Wheaton, Maryland
April 1, 1975
Address of 4714 Baltimore Avenue in Hyattsville, Maryland, provided to law enforcement"

So the police may have tracked Welch down, Welch may have come forward and called some tip line in hopes of getting the reward (in which case the police would know his name, address, phone number and tip but not his face unless they followed up in person) or there was some unrelated reason for Welch to provide his address Any ideas what the contact on April 1 was for?
 
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