Lloyd Welch Pleads Guilty in Deaths of Sheila and Katherine Lyon

[siriunsun]

You have to understand the reason for any such exclusion before you condemn it. My memory is off on why after so long but it may have been because they were going to be witnesses at trial. Adherence to procedural rules protects the integrity of the court proceedings.

That could be, but since the crime scene was nowhere near the Ropers' home, or their whereabouts at the time, I do not see how they could testify about the crime.

 

[JayMac]

That could be, but since the crime scene was nowhere near the Ropers' home, or their whereabouts at the time, I do not see how they could testify about the crime.

Witnesses may have all kinds of evidence. The Ropers would have had all kinds of information about their daughter, her habits, her clothes & property, her acquaintances, her schedule, her plans, and on and on.

 

[Richard]

There are still too many unanswered questions to consider this case "solved." It feels more like it is been neatly "packaged" and "covered up" to me. Where are the facts? What do we have now that we didn't have 40 years ago? One known liar who was already in prison, now taking the wrap for a murder (or is it 2 murders?) without identifying any of the other people involved or verification that either of the girls are actually dead. And to top it all, LLW still denies any killing; he only says he "took them from the shopping center." Even more confusing, he only addresses knowledge of one girl being dead. Is LLW on his way back to Delaware now?

It has been over a year and a half and nothing further has come out. Welch pled guilty and was awarded a life of paid room and board. Probably gets to watch TV, work out, and eat green jello every Wednesday evening. All the prosecutors declared victory and went home.

But all the questions still remain. What actually became of the girls? Who else was involved besides this moron Welch? What did he actually tell investigators?

 

[Rhett]

It has been over a year and a half and nothing further has come out. Welch pled guilty and was awarded a life of paid room and board. Probably gets to watch TV, work out, and eat green jello every Wednesday evening. All the prosecutors declared victory and went home.

But all the questions still remain. What actually became of the girls? Who else was involved besides this moron Welch? What did he actually tell investigators?

I agree with you Richard and it's very frustrating for those of us who have followed this case for decades. I really believe that the girls' family wants it to be over and finished and i can understand that. However, what could Welch have told about other unsolved cases and as you said who else was involved in the Lyon's sisters torture and murder?

 

[CatMama3]

It has been over a year and a half and nothing further has come out.
But all the questions still remain. What actually became of the girls? Who else was involved besides this moron Welch? What did he actually tell investigators?

middle sniped by me

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...didnt-give-up-on-them/?utm_term=.85ed609d9752

This is a link to an excellent article by author Mark Bowden (Black Hawk Down) who was a cub reporter at the Baltimore News American in March 1975. It may well have been his reporting that I read as a nine-year-old living in Baltimore at the time.

The article details many missing pieces of the story of how cold case detectives were able to reach a point where Welch had little choice but to plead guilty. It also makes clear that the crime scene was his father's house on Baltimore Avenue, where he also lived in 1975. He was, without doubt, involved in the crime.

 

[TatianaBarbie]

middle sniped by me

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...didnt-give-up-on-them/?utm_term=.85ed609d9752

This is a link to an excellent article by author Mark Bowden (Black Hawk Down) who was a cub reporter at the Baltimore News American in March 1975. It may well have been his reporting that I read as a nine-year-old living in Baltimore at the time.

The article details many missing pieces of the story of how cold case detectives were able to reach a point where Welch had little choice but to plead guilty. It also makes clear that the crime scene was his father's house on Baltimore Avenue, where he also lived in 1975. He was, without doubt, involved in the crime.

As I said in another thread (the remembering thread), this article was extremely well-written and explains many things. Well worth reading every word. Thank you for finding this link.

 

[Richard]

The Welch House at 4714 Baltimore Ave. Hyattsville, Maryland

 

[Richard]

The Washington Post Article of 1 April 2019 does seem to confirm a lot of what has been surmised here on Websleuths.

Interesting to see that the very first internet generated lead/tip submitted as a result of this story being put on a website was what got the ball rolling in regard to Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr.

Back in 1997, a brief case summary about the missing Lyon Sisters was posted on a new website titled "Maryland's Most Missing". A caller submitted a detailed account of Raymond Mileski and his alleged involvement in their abduction and murder. This was forwarded to Montgomery County Cold Case investigators.

Mileski was later contacted in prison and he admitted that he had intimate knowledge of the crime which he was willing to offer in return for a prison transfer (which was subsequently arranged).

We still do not know exactly what information Mileski gave investigators, but it was a pairing of that information with information about Welch (kept secret in MCP files for over 40 years) that led Investigators to Welch where he was incarcerated in a Delaware prison.

The Mileski story was one which differed from all other potential suspect stories, in that to believe any of it, you had to consider that others were involved. And so much of it parallels the story told by Welch to investigators. Here are some of the similarities:

- The girls were abducted by someone using a vehicle from Wheaton Plaza and transported into Prince Georges County, Maryland.
- They were imprisoned in a house or building In Prince Georges County which was rented by more than one person.
- The girls were sexually abused and eventually murdered.
- Two or three named persons were allegedly involved in the crime.
- All persons involved were residents of Prince Georges County.
- Both stories involved someone who was about 18 who allegedly had knowledge of the crime.
- The girls bodies were disposed of near a rural cabin where one might go to hunt or fish.
- A station wagon is mentioned in both the Mileski and the Welch version.
- Both Mileski and Welch had difficulties with the truth and their stories varied with each telling. Both claimed someone else was responsible.
- Both Mileski and Welch were already in prison for other capital crimes (Mileski for multiple murder and Welch for the rape of a minor).
- Both men had prior records of burglary and violence.
- Both men attempted to gain from telling their stories to investigators.

With all of those similarities, no solid connection seems to have been made between Mileski and Welch. The names of alleged accomplices do not match or link the stories together. At least not in any investigative account so far released to the public.

 

[dotr]

'The Last Stone' Documents A 40-Year Quest For Answers In A Cold Case
April 4, 2019 by Paddy Hirsch
"The art of the law enforcement interrogation has been diminished over the past several years. In media reports, the noun is usually accompanied by adjectives like botched, brutal, forced or enhanced."

"The Last Stone, Mark Bowden's account of the interrogation of a suspect in a nearly 40-year-old missing persons case, goes some way to rehabilitating the questioner's craft."
"The Last Stone is a rigorous documenting of the 40-year journey taken by Montgomery County detectives and the cold-case team that interrogated Lloyd Welch. It's a riveting, serpentine story about the dogged pursuit of the truth, regardless of the outcome or the cost. And it's a useful reminder that in an age of science, forensics, and video and data surveillance, the ability of one human being to coax the truth from another remains the cornerstone of a successful investigation."

https://www.amazon.com/Last-Stone-Masterpiece-Criminal-Interrogation/dp/0802147305

 

[Fukiyama]

'The Last Stone' Documents A 40-Year Quest For Answers In A Cold Case
April 4, 2019 by Paddy Hirsch
"The art of the law enforcement interrogation has been diminished over the past several years. In media reports, the noun is usually accompanied by adjectives like botched, brutal, forced or enhanced."

"The Last Stone, Mark Bowden's account of the interrogation of a suspect in a nearly 40-year-old missing persons case, goes some way to rehabilitating the questioner's craft."
"The Last Stone is a rigorous documenting of the 40-year journey taken by Montgomery County detectives and the cold-case team that interrogated Lloyd Welch. It's a riveting, serpentine story about the dogged pursuit of the truth, regardless of the outcome or the cost. And it's a useful reminder that in an age of science, forensics, and video and data surveillance, the ability of one human being to coax the truth from another remains the cornerstone of a successful investigation."
https://www.amazon.com/Last-Stone-Masterpiece-Criminal-Interrogation/dp/0802147305

If you pick that up, be sure to post a review here. I'm interested in what Mark has gleaned from his research. From what they've made public, it doesn't seem like they got much of substance besides the very basics.

 

[nVESTtig8]

It has been over a year and a half and nothing further has come out. Welch pled guilty and was awarded a life of paid room and board. Probably gets to watch TV, work out, and eat green jello every Wednesday evening. All the prosecutors declared victory and went home.

But all the questions still remain. What actually became of the girls? Who else was involved besides this moron Welch? What did he actually tell investigators?

I plan on reading this book within the next month or two. I have a lot of unanswered questions which I hope will be satisfied by reading the book, mainly is the right guy in prison and were the others named by LLW legitimately cleared.

 

[Richard]

Bethesda magazine
By Charlie Wright
| Published: 2019-04-03 08:30 |
Inside the investigation that solved a 40-year-old disappearance case

Detectives had been baffled for years by the disappearance of sisters Sheila and Kate Lyon from the Wheaton Plaza shopping mall in 1975. After combing back through the case in 2015, county investigators finally put the pieces together....

LINKS:

Inside the Investigation that Solved the Lyon Sisters Disappearance 40 Years Ago

Washington Post Magazine

 

[IDK]

'The Last Stone' Documents A 40-Year Quest For Answers In A Cold Case
April 4, 2019 by Paddy Hirsch
"The art of the law enforcement interrogation has been diminished over the past several years. In media reports, the noun is usually accompanied by adjectives like botched, brutal, forced or enhanced."

"The Last Stone, Mark Bowden's account of the interrogation of a suspect in a nearly 40-year-old missing persons case, goes some way to rehabilitating the questioner's craft."
"The Last Stone is a rigorous documenting of the 40-year journey taken by Montgomery County detectives and the cold-case team that interrogated Lloyd Welch. It's a riveting, serpentine story about the dogged pursuit of the truth, regardless of the outcome or the cost. And it's a useful reminder that in an age of science, forensics, and video and data surveillance, the ability of one human being to coax the truth from another remains the cornerstone of a successful investigation."

https://www.amazon.com/Last-Stone-Masterpiece-Criminal-Interrogation/dp/0802147305

I am new to this thread and just finished reading "The Last Stone". I am interested in others' opinions of this book. It's different than any other true crime novel I have read in that the focus is on interviews with LLW. LLW is what evil looks like, IMO. I'm sure others were involved as well and it is dispiriting that they will not all be brought to justice. May the souls of those precious young girls rest in peace.

 

[helpfulcharlie]

Wow, how did I miss that article in April? It had more detail in one place than I've seen yet. So much that I ordered a copy of his book. Two, actually. One for my father, who was a Montgomery County cop when the girls were taken.

For a long while, I believed that his uncle was involved. Now that it seems it didn't occur at the uncle's house, I'm second guessing that belief. Granted, if Uncle Dick was a security guard during that time, the uniform would be a great way to get them out in a compliant way. I don't see young Lloyd being with-it enough to borrow the uniform and pull that off. I hope it becomes clearer one day.

 

[cherrymeg]

I am new to this thread and just finished reading "The Last Stone". I am interested in others' opinions of this book. It's different than any other true crime novel I have read in that the focus is on interviews with LLW. LLW is what evil looks like, IMO. I'm sure others were involved as well and it is dispiriting that they will not all be brought to justice. May the souls of those precious young girls rest in peace.

I just downloaded it. Did you feel like it was worthwhile?

 

[IDK]

I am very glad that I read it because I have always been haunted by this case and grew up in Montgomery County. Many of the details were new to me because I had not followed the case on WS. It can be a little difficult going at times because the author provides portions of each interview that the MC detectives conducted with LLW while he was in prison in DE. I found the process fascinating for the most part, but it was a little tedious at times. Also, I was never fully aware of exactly how horribly brutalized and tortured the girls were. It was difficult to read but I almost felt like I owed it to Sheila and Katherine to keep reading--they had to live through it after all. And of course there is no tidy wrap up with perfect justice and closure which is not the fault of the author by any stretch. You might want to read the reviews on Good Reads to help you decide whether to read it or not. Some readers felt like LLW was treated badly by the detectives or that the interviews were boring to read, not enough action.

I walked away after finishing the book with a new realization of exactly what evil is. I cannot begin to imagine what the Lyons family has lived through and I feel only sadness and horror that people like the W clan exist in this world.

 

[cherrymeg]

I am very glad that I read it because I have always been haunted by this case and grew up in Montgomery County. Many of the details were new to me because I had not followed the case on WS. It can be a little difficult going at times because the author provides portions of each interview that the MC detectives conducted with LLW while he was in prison in DE. I found the process fascinating for the most part, but it was a little tedious at times. Also, I was never fully aware of exactly how horribly brutalized and tortured the girls were. It was difficult to read but I almost felt like I owed it to Sheila and Katherine to keep reading--they had to live through it after all. And of course there is no tidy wrap up with perfect justice and closure which is not the fault of the author by any stretch. You might want to read the reviews on Good Reads to help you decide whether to read it or not. Some readers felt like LLW was treated badly by the detectives or that the interviews were boring to read, not enough action.

I walked away after finishing the book with a new realization of exactly what evil is. I cannot begin to imagine what the Lyons family has lived through and I feel only sadness and horror that people like the W clan exist in this world.

It seems well written I was just wondering if it was going to let him off the hook. Does it explain why he did it? Sometimes I like spoilers before I read or watch things lol.

 

[IDK]

It seems well written I was just wondering if it was going to let him off the hook. Does it explain why he did it? Sometimes I like spoilers before I read or watch things lol.

OK then, LOL! The book does not let him off the hook. He was definitely involved, most likely at the very least with the kidnapping, drugging and rapes. Once one of the detectives asked LLW to describe how Sheila and Kate looked when he saw them at the house and LLW said something along the lines "They were partying, doing drugs. I thought they were runaways because they never asked to go home." What a twisted and sick SOB. He claimed his uncle was filming the rapes for pornographic films. As a motive? LLW was apparently physically and possibly sexually abused by his own father. When he was 2 years old, he was in the car when his dad was driving. There was an accident and his mother was killed. He went into foster care for years. After his dad remarried, he got LLW back. Who knows what happened to him in foster care.

 

[cherrymeg]

OK then, LOL! The book does not let him off the hook. He was definitely involved, most likely at the very least with the kidnapping, drugging and rapes. Once one of the detectives asked LLW to describe how Sheila and Kate looked when he saw them at the house and LLW said something along the lines "They were partying, doing drugs. I thought they were runaways because they never asked to go home." What a twisted and sick SOB. He claimed his uncle was filming the rapes for pornographic films. As a motive? LLW was apparently physically and possibly sexually abused by his own father. When he was 2 years old, he was in the car when his dad was driving. There was an accident and his mother was killed. He went into foster care for years. After his dad remarried, he got LLW back. Who knows what happened to him in foster care.

Didn't he go to mall security with info and then kind of freak when the cops were brought in? The suggestion that he thought they were runaways and partiers screams BS. Especially if you kidnapped them. I wondered if that attempt to talk to mall security was an act of conscience or if it was a way to misdirect LE.

 

[helpfulcharlie]

We'll never know why, the guy's a damaged manipulator. Put money in his commissary account just for the privilege of getting more confusing unverifiable stories? Please. I'd rather put it in another inmate's shank fund at this point.