Local 6 - DP motion just DENIED

[Gma Kat]

Not to throw a monkey wrench into things...but something just struck me.

The Judge's comments have pretty much guaranteed that there is no way she can get a fair trial around Central Florida. His comment "The prosecution's brief recitation of facts" has, in my mind at least, stated that what the prosecutor said in his statement is how it happened, and has probably tainted the opinion of anyone who reads it.

Just my .02, and I'm not saying he's wrong. Just saying that he might have worded things a bit better.

I can see how you would get that idea hroark2112, and perhaps others will interpret it the same way you have, but consider this point: In California, before a case is ever scheduled for trial, at the preliminary hearing the State must give the Court enough evidence to prove a crime was committed, and that the defendant charged might be responsible. This defense motion to have the death penalty removed is very similar. The State had to defend proceeding with the death penalty to the judge. So what I hear JS saying is that the State has proven that this case has evidence sufficient to qualify the defendant for the death penalty. I don't think JS is saying he thinks she is guilty - just that he thinks there is enough evidence to let a jury decide for themselves. Just my .02, hope my argument was understandable.

 

[justthinkin]

I understand that, but the problem is that he can't [prove his facts. He can't prove that the duct tape was applied to kill her, it's just his theory of how it happened.

I have no doubt that the very last face Caylee saw before she died was of KC. I have no doubt that KC caused her death, either intentionally or by accident, and she panicked. I do have doubts that the duct tape was the murder weapon, I lean more towards something chemical, and then KC freaked out and didn't know what to do.

I just think that, by stating in the court record and therefore publicly that JA's recitation was of 'facts' he has said something he might not have intended to say.

I could be wrong

By your own statement then you are saying that KC is not a psychopath. Is that correct?

Would a panicked person even drive around for two 1/2 days with a body in their car or would they be so panicked they would fear getting in an accident and being found out?

Sorry, I see nothing in Casey's demeanor to ever indicate panic. Have you seen some of the things she had posted on her my space account?

 

[debbie0604]

:bananapartyhat::bananapartyhat::bananapartyhat: WOO HOO!!!! What great news!!! This makes my day and

my week!!!!! Way to go JS!!! :bananapartyhat::bananapartyhat::bananapartyhat:

 

[Mackenzie]

I'm so happy that the death penalty is still on the table! Way to go JS!:dance:

 

[21merc7]

I can see how you would get that idea hroark2112, and perhaps others will interpret it the same way you have, but consider this point: In California, before a case is ever scheduled for trial, at the preliminary hearing the State must give the Court enough evidence to prove a crime was committed, and that the defendant charged might be responsible. This defense motion to have the death penalty removed is very similar. The State had to defend proceeding with the death penalty to the judge. So what I hear JS saying is that the State has proven that this case has evidence sufficient to qualify the defendant for the death penalty. I don't think JS is saying he thinks she is guilty - just that he thinks there is enough evidence to let a jury decide for themselves. Just my .02, hope my argument was understandable.

Gma Kat;

You are correct. The evidence must be founded in order to present DP. The state went through all of the steps to do that. Grand Jury, Judge, and their own ability to do so. It would not be on the plate if there was not enough legally to ask for it.

You made complete sense.

 

[legalmania]

For 31 days Casey Anthony did not cry, all I saw was smiles. Oh the flag dress and the drinking, what a good time she was having. Now she realizes, oh I can die for this. Not smiling now are you Casey?

 

[legalmania]

Gma Kat;

You are correct. The evidence must be founded in order to present DP. The state went through all of the steps to do that. Grand Jury, Judge, and their own ability to do so. It would not be on the plate if there was not enough legally to ask for it.

You made complete sense.

Have they had a evidentiary hearing yet? In Florida you have to have a hearing to determine what the evidence is.

 

[tasylshari]

aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh...... la bella vita :thumb:

Merry Christmas, Caylee :angel::blowkiss:

 

[zadari]

if i were the prosecution id look her straight in the face and ask her why she should have any right to life when she took her daughters ..

 

[hroark2112]

By your own statement then you are saying that KC is not a psychopath. Is that correct?

Would a panicked person even drive around for two 1/2 days with a body in their car or would they be so panicked they would fear getting in an accident and being found out?

Sorry, I see nothing in Casey's demeanor to ever indicate panic. Have you seen some of the things she had posted on her my space account?

The problem is...we didn't see her demeanor when it happened. We see it now, 18 months later. None of us know whether she panicked or not when it actually happened, she hid from the people who knew her best.

I'm in no way defending her actions, they were IMO wrong and morally incomprehensible to me. As a father, I could never have hurt my child intentionally, and when I did by accident it tore me up inside. Whether she's a true psychopath or not, I don't know and we'll never know. 99.9% of us here on the board only know what we read and see in the media, we don't actually know her.

People do dumb things when they panic. I've done some REALLY dumb things in a panic when I was around her age, and I'm no psychopath. Emotions, panic and fear make you act in a much different way than you would normally act.

Again, I'm not defending her. I think she's guilty and that she deserves to be punished. I just think there's more to the story than we will ever really know, unless she comes forward and tells us, which I sincerely doubt will happen.

As far as what is posted on her Myspace...I'll pull out my cane and shake it in the air here...those damn kids post all kinds of things on there, and most are not cold blooded killers. I'd be willing to bet that if you looked in the Myspace & Facebook accounts of most 21 & 22 year olds, they have something posted in there that you could read and say OMG!!! She's a killer!!! The things you say & do in your early 20's are not always what most of us over 30 would call rational, or mature, or even smart. I would tend to discount most of what is posted there that is not her original content (i.e. the 'stickers' that say silly things) and take them with a grain of salt. They mean less than most people think...it's just to look cool to her peer group.

 

[Themis]

When most people are panicky over a serious physical trauma or death, they call 911, an ambulance or the police. It took time to collect the things that were used here. It took time to apply them. Enough about the merits.

The "facts" that are disputed are always an attorney's offer of proof of anticipated evidence during a non-evidentiary hearing where no testimony is given or evidence submitted for admission. The Judge can rely on those facts for the purposes of deciding the motion. It is called an "offer of proof" which we use as a basis to decide motions.

 

[Themis]

if i were the prosecution id look her straight in the face and ask her why she should have any right to life when she took her daughters ..

KC has a right to remain silent under the 5th Amendment to the United States Constitution.

 

[Themis]

Not to throw a monkey wrench into things...but something just struck me.

The Judge's comments have pretty much guaranteed that there is no way she can get a fair trial around Central Florida. His comment "The prosecution's brief recitation of facts" has, in my mind at least, stated that what the prosecutor said in his statement is how it happened, and has probably tainted the opinion of anyone who reads it.

Just my .02, and I'm not saying he's wrong. Just saying that he might have worded things a bit better.

Example: A nut job walks into a sports stadium full of people and point blank shoots a victim. The victim dies. The press was there at the stadium and all the major media outlets immediately report in breaking news that Nut Job shot Victim in Sports Stadium and was immediately arrested by Local Police. No identity issues; nailed right there before 50,000 people. Within minutes, a simple Google search for Nut Job's name or any key words produces several hundred printed articles printing all the "facts" available worldwide in moments. We still use our existing justice system to obtain due process and a fair trial for Nut Job. There are voir dire questions the attorneys can ask the potential jurors. Arguments of counsel and jury instructions can remind jurors they are to decide the case based solely on evidence admitted in court and given to them by the Judge. We expect jurors to follow these instructions. So, media exposure is clearly not dispositive of the issue of being able to get appropriate due process and a fair trial.

 

[Gma Kat]

Example: A nut job walks into a sports stadium full of people and point blank shoots a victim. The victim dies. The press was there at the stadium and all the major media outlets immediately report in breaking news that Nut Job shot Victim in Sports Stadium and was immediately arrested by Local Police. No identity issues; nailed right there before 50,000 people. Within minutes, a simple Google search for Nut Job's name or any key words produces several hundred printed articles printing all the "facts" available worldwide in moments. We still use our existing justice system to obtain due process and a fair trial for Nut Job. There are voir dire questions the attorneys can ask the potential jurors. Arguments of counsel and jury instructions can remind jurors they are to decide the case based solely on evidence admitted in court and given to them by the Judge. We expect jurors to follow these instructions. So, media exposure is clearly not dispositive of the issue of being able to get appropriate due process and a fair trial.

As always Themis, beautifully put.

 

[logicalgirl]

The problem is...we didn't see her demeanor when it happened. We see it now, 18 months later. None of us know whether she panicked or not when it actually happened, she hid from the people who knew her best.

I'm in no way defending her actions, they were IMO wrong and morally incomprehensible to me. As a father, I could never have hurt my child intentionally, and when I did by accident it tore me up inside. Whether she's a true psychopath or not, I don't know and we'll never know. 99.9% of us here on the board only know what we read and see in the media, we don't actually know her.

People do dumb things when they panic. I've done some REALLY dumb things in a panic when I was around her age, and I'm no psychopath. Emotions, panic and fear make you act in a much different way than you would normally act.

Again, I'm not defending her. I think she's guilty and that she deserves to be punished. I just think there's more to the story than we will ever really know, unless she comes forward and tells us, which I sincerely doubt will happen.

As far as what is posted on her Myspace...I'll pull out my cane and shake it in the air here...those damn kids post all kinds of things on there, and most are not cold blooded killers. I'd be willing to bet that if you looked in the Myspace & Facebook accounts of most 21 & 22 year olds, they have something posted in there that you could read and say OMG!!! She's a killer!!! The things you say & do in your early 20's are not always what most of us over 30 would call rational, or mature, or even smart. I would tend to discount most of what is posted there that is not her original content (i.e. the 'stickers' that say silly things) and take them with a grain of salt. They mean less than most people think...it's just to look cool to her peer group.

But we saw a tattoo and lot of Fusion pictures.

 

[hroark2112]

If that's the case, why do trials get moved? If all of what you said happens, there should never be a reason to move a trial. It shouldn't even be an option.

I agree that, in theory, you're right. I also agree that, in theory, there are 18-24 people in Orlando who haven't followed the case and would be acceptable jurors. I don't think the defense will take that chance though, and I don't think the judge will deny moving the trial to Tallahassee, Jacksonville or Miami.

In theory, if the jurors all follow the directions as given by the judge, all trials will be fair and impartial. In practice? Not so much.

 

[logicalgirl]

Wasn't there some talk about not moving the location of the trial, but selecting jurors from other areas and sequestering them in Orlando?

 

[manatee]

KC has a right to remain silent under the 5th Amendment to the United States Constitution.

speaking of which...how much will it hurt her not to take the stand in her own defense considering she is the mother of the victim? as a juror, although I know I would be instructed that her not taking the stand should not be interpreted as a sign of guilt....as a mother myself in that situation the last thought on my mind would be to save my own skin and my only thought would be to help find the real killer! and saying everything I know, regardless of how incriminating it may be would be most important. She should have an extreme sense of urgency, like most family members of victims, on finding the real killer. Neither KC nor her parents have this. Why? KC is the killer

 

[athy]

you would think jb is tired of hearing no way jose by now

 

[Omachka]

Compelling! Had the SA just stated that when CA and GA got up and left? How close to the time when they left was that material presented by the SA?

Post Script: I see that AZlawyer thanked this post -- I know exactly why she did -- we're on the trail of a nonverbal communication by physical behavior that could be evidence, and it happened right before our eyes; like a nonverbal "excited utterance."

Yes, they left during JA's description of what may have happened. I believe CA jumped out of her chair right about the time he was saying that Caylee must have been restrained. GA followed her out the door. The moment was hard-hitting and emotional so I hope I am remembering the moment correctly but I feel very certain that was the precise moment that CA jumped up.