Looking for any LISK (Long Island Serial Killer) updates

[BrookeManning]

I moved your thread to the Lisk forum.

You will find it listed here:

Long Island Serial Killer

ALL CURRENT CASE DISCUSSIONS LOCATED HERE

www.websleuths.com

Thanks!

thank you! you're amazing <3

 

[BrookeManning]

No. I am nowhere near convinced there is more than one.

then how do you explain the 2 polar opposite methods? both killing styles, methods, body disposal / body placement etc are very specific? they both have their rituals or routine to their kill. There must be more than one. they were also competing in a sense. I find it very hard to believe that a trophy gatherer is also a mutiliator here and there. it doesnt fit its like polar opposing ways of leaving the body... posed, facing a certain way, neatly wrapped laid specific distances apart vs cut up body parts some thrown here some thrown there. you could maybe say the killler is trying to throw us off but someone who is a trophy killer is way too OCD do be able to be both IMO. I mean why even bother with all of the detail with half if youre going to be sloppy and dismemeber and throw at random the other half. IMO theres no way its just one serial killer, i say at least 2.

 

[BrookeManning]

He called the families victims. The only other serial killers that used a phone were the Weepy Sounder and the Zodiac. He likely is very intelligent and educated. He is likely by now 40+ years old. Very tall and physically very strong. Since he has been in hiatus either he is in prison. Deceased or relocated to somewhere else.

how were none of these calls not traced (to at least a remote location by the phone provider)? the friend who got the call saying shes in a *advertiser censored* house in queens i believe got the call on her cell phone correct? no one was able to see what cell tower it pinged off ?

 

[Ana renee]

Hello all,

I am new to Web Sleuths and this is my first post, so please be kind and patient with me. I am not sure exactly how this works but I am a quick learner and I'm very good at getting to the bottom of things/getting answers/getting things done/solving problems etc. I genuinely want to help solve some cases. I am relentlessly persistent and I have a special set of skills that seems to be rare now a days-- (I will answer any questions/go into what I do for a living. I am an open book, but this isn't about me so moving on...).

To start: I am very proud of all of you on this forum... especially the ones that never gave up and got answers and solved cases that the cops couldn't and/or wouldn't and/or didn't care enough to. Great work... what I've seen on shows like 'Web of Death', 'The Killing Season', etc. is truly incredible!! Congrats to all of you. Needless to say, I am beyond impressed and want to join in on the fun.

So, since I live in NY and frequent Long Island regularly, I decided to make my first post about the LISK serial killer. I haven't gotten through the entire series of 'The Killing Season' yet, so if anyone can educate me on anything I may get wrong in my post or anything that I seem to need to be filled in on: please please correct me/enlighten me/teach me. I am here to learn, to help, to grow and to solve cases. I will work with anyone that needs help and I appreciate anyone that is willing to help me/work with me. So far on The Killing Season, (in my opinion) they seem to keep getting further and further away (logistically) from the initial LISK murders. I am not saying they are "wrong" in doing so, I'm just saying that I believe that the area in Long Island where the bodies/body parts were found is where we will find our answers.

Here's the thing: there's at least one serial killer (maybe LISK maybe a different one) who's home base is/was that specific area in Long Island (Gilgo Beach/Fire Island, etc.). The specific area where the remains were found is a very private, very secluded area. ESPECIALLY in the winter months... My gut tells me that at least one of the serial killers is still in Long Island. The specific area where the bodies were found is a summertime vacation area. Families/People from all over Long Island will travel to the Gilgo Beach/ Fire Island (etc.) area for day trips and/or get-a-ways to the beach in the summertime. I believe one or more of the serial killers responsible for the Long Island murders, is someone who grew up in the area and/or someone who grew up vacationing to that area regularly as a young child-teen-young adult. I believe that one or more of the serial killers have simply gone cold (probably has a family like BTK, or maybe fell ill/was injured/disabled/isn't as strong and able as they once were, or maybe like 'The Killing Season' theory --they are still actively killing, but always on the move down the coast and across the nation). Even if LISK or the other(s) serial killer(s) responsible for any of the Long Island murders is now deceased, since their home base must have been that LI area, they would maybe be buried there/their funeral would have been held there, their family or at least an extended relative of theirs would still be there, they more than likely would have a criminal record of some sort in Nassau and/or Suffolk county (even if its for minor charges, a traffic ticket, whatever), they may still own a home or property or a business there, there would be birth certificates, marriage certificates, divorce/family court records, etc in either of those two counties. Plus, there must be SOMEONE who knows something IN THAT SPECIFIC AREA. The way to find the killer(s) is by going back to where it started and getting some answers and quality leads. Even if they were (or still are) a "traveling coastal fisherman" or whatever, it doesn't matter. The murders started there because that was "home" and that's where the killer was comfortable starting. Even if maybe the killer(s) knew they would soon be leaving the area (supporting that "coastal fisherman" possibility) it still doesn't matter because the killer(s) knew that specific area like the back of their hand. Here's why:

So, what people may not realize is that this area were talking about Gilgo Beach, Fire Island, etc. is really not "Long Island"-- at least not the Long Island you're probably thinking of (the tip off the side of New York State on the map). This area where the bodies were found is really a separate island that runs parallel to Long Island. It is very confusing/not easy to imagine unless you've been there. The only reason I say this is, because until my mother married my step-father, I had no idea what or where Fire Island even was. However, after they married (almost 15 years ago) I started vacationing to my step-dad's home on Fire Island every summer. I have spent my late 20's-late 30's in this area and (I'm ashamed to say this) I had never heard of the Gilgo Beach murders / LISK until I started watched the 'The Killing Season'. To give further context, I currently live in the Albany NY area, however my mother grew up in Central Islip (which is sort of right in the middle of what we all consider to be Long Island NY). My Grandmother still lives in the same house that my mother grew up in and from her house in Central Islip its just under an hour drive to Patchogue, NY where we park our car. We then take the Patchogue Ferry over to Jones Beach / Davis Park/Fire Island and my step-dad's house is located on the ocean side of Fire Island where there's a private beach. I've also been to Cherry Grove, The Pines, The Robert Moses State Park, Davis Beach etc. but I've never heard of Gilgo Beach prior to watching the show. To finish my point, in order to get to Fire Island you have to take a ferry or boat. Once you're on the island you can take a water taxi around to other areas of the island. For example: I can take a water taxi from Davis Beach to Cherry Grove, then from Cherry Grove I can take a water taxi to The Pines, etc, etc. To be clear, there are many vast areas of land on this "island that runs parallel to Long Island", that are completely undeveloped. Meaning no people can go there. It's almost like the feel of a preserve. For instance, since Fire Island is developed, there are has walk ways, homes, etc. where they have developed through the thick terrain of impermeable brush, ticks/bugs, animals, trees, rocks, sand etc. Hence why, even though "land" technically connects The Pines, Cherry Grove and Fire Island, you still need to take a water taxi to get to those specific locations because of the vast areas of undeveloped land.

I hope this makes sense, I'm not trying to over explain, but for those who have never been there, it's very hard to imagine how it is there. And to me the terrain of the location, as well as the isolated/private/hard to access location itself, where the bodies were found is incredibly important. Gilgo Beach (I believe) can be accessed by vehicle (I'm assuming a long bridge? If anyone knows please let me know.) But again, it's still the same terrain as Fire Island and the rest of the "island running parallel to Long Island". To sum it up: the Long Island we all know is your typical suburban area, just outside of NYC and just far enough away from the fast paced city lifestyle. Long Island is typical neighborhoods for the most part... with typical counties with typical schools, hospitals, court offices, housing developments etc-- obviously some higher end and some lower end and some right in the middle, but it's typical what you would envision in your head for "normal" towns across the nation. On the contrary, however, Fire Island and the rest of the "island running parallel to LI" has a way more almost tropical feel to it. Tropical in the sense of: you're on a get-away and it's all ocean/bay, sand, fresh air and salt and there's no cars and it's private and "off the grid", but with the same amenities just off the grid in the sense that you aren't in basic suburbia anymore. It's a little taste of paradise... Now this is of course in the summertime... Most of these areas are closed during the winter unless you have a boat and the water isn't frozen. Without a boat you are at the mercy of the Ferry schedule start and when they stop and what days and times they run.

That being said, I know Fire Island very well and my step-father knows Fire Island, Gilgo Beach and everywhere else on the "island that runs parallel to LI" the same or better than anyone else that's owned a home there for almost 30 years. He's owned the FI Beach House for going on 30 years but he's been going to FI since he was a kid-- he's nearing his 70's now... This being said, I really want to help and I really think I can help if no other reason than my logistics and access to local expertise. So, since I just started 'The Killing Season' last week, I literally just asked my step dad the other day about the Gilgo Beach 4 / LISK, etc. He said he knows all about it and he tends to always have a trove of knowledge. He did not have the time to talk at length with me about it yet-- and I guess that's why I am here...

***To those who specialize in this case, but don't have "feet on the ground"-- let me be your feet. I will talk to anyone, I will ask anyone anything, I will go to houses/knock on doors, follow up on leads, go check out certain areas, find family members of suspects/ask them the right questions.... anything I can do to help I will. With my step-dad's knowledge/expertise of the island tied with my confidence, persistence and investigative mind/skills I feel like I can possibly make some moves on this case or at least get us some answers, or even rule some people out or anything I can do to help. Does anyone have any ideas, questions, information, leads, suspects, gut instincts or even just if someone specializing in this case could inform me of anything I seem to not know/might have missed/need to learn/etc. that would be great.

Also, one question I have is: How was no DNA evidence found on any of the first 10ish women murdered in Gilgo Beach, Fire Island area? Do we literally have zero DNA from the Long Island victims? If we do have DNA have we tried Parabon/CeCe Moore and the genetic genealogy profiling abilities we have today? If we have DNA we need to send it to Parabon ASAP for the genealogy back tracking method of finding the killer through their ancestry. Thousands of murders have been solved already using this method and its picking up across the nation/across the world.

Anyways, thanks for reading, sorry for the long post. If anyone has any tips, thoughts, info, comments, concerns, please let me know. I will be headed to Fire Island in less than 2 weeks. I am thinking of going sooner and heading straight to the Gilgo Beach area first to do some investigating by just talking to people and trying to get leads and knocking on doors. Is the doctor who was a suspect who was a local still alive? Thanks to all and sending love and thanks to all of you. Thanks - BM

I won't lie....I didn't read it all. What you need to know is this case has rabbit holes inside of rabbit holes. This case has haunted me for years. I have binders of info that I have tried to make sense of. It has always been hard for me to believe in any way that more than one killer was/is at play. However, I'm open to it. The most important part is that there are mothers that need answers. At every turn they have been let down. Police, neighbors, pimps, drivers,and johns have lied. There is a list of suspects. They all seem guilty. Then another suspect pops up. These girls deserve more. When the bodies started showing up and then parts of bodies related to other parts of bodies from crimes a decade before I wondered how this happens. The unidentified are the saddest part for me. Give it a go. Any fresh eyes are a good thing.

 

[surelockh33]

New member, so probably this has been discussed ad nauseum. How can there be no DNA from killer for forensic geneology. I understand there are some legal barriers in New York, but seems hard to believe no male profile with that many bodies (regardless if more than one unsub). Is it because too long a delay in finding victims?

 

[Ozoner]

New member, so probably this has been discussed ad nauseum. How can there be no DNA from killer for forensic geneology. I understand there are some legal barriers in New York, but seems hard to believe no male profile with that many bodies (regardless if more than one unsub). Is it because too long a delay in finding victims?

The bodies weren't found soon enough. Most had been exposed to the elements for many months or even years before they were found.

Jessica Taylor's torso was found about five days after she disappeared, back in July 2003, and Amber Lynn Costello had only been missing for about three-and-a-half months when her remains were found in December of 2010. There might be a slight chance of finding the killer's DNA on one of those two victims, but the chances of finding any perpetrator DNA on any of the others is basically nil.

 

[surelockh33]

The bodies weren't found soon enough. Most had been exposed to the elements for many months or even years before they were found.

Jessica Taylor's torso was found about five days after she disappeared, back in July 2003, and Amber Lynn Costello had only been missing for about three-and-a-half months when her remains were found in December of 2010. There might be a slight chance of finding the killer's DNA on one of those two victims, but the chances of finding any perpetrator DNA on any of the others is basically nil.

Thanks. Makes sense. I know I’m late to this case. Just watched Killing Season. I know it’s been a while since last known homicide. Some of my thoughts after watching this:
1. A lot of the outcalls were centered around that overly insular wealthy enclave that seemed to throw “Eyes Wide Open” like parties, and had a near mafia style omertà working. Assuming Shannan Gilbert WAS murdered, her 911 call said “they’re” trying to kill me. Seems odds increased (there are no certainties here) one or more resident of Oak Beach or Gilgo played a role.
2. In general, once it’s discovered victims dumped in a concentrated area, saturate the area with hidden surveillance cameras to catch another disposal or video of killer returning to scene.
3. This is another example of victims from an unfortunate high risk demographic with frequently delayed missing person reports and that often get deprioritized investigations (which always sickens me). This inherently increases the longevity of a killer’s success at evading capture (like Green River, Dahmer, Gacy, etc.).
4. This seemed like a particularly negligent investigation. But I guess one never really knows all the facts of it.

Can anyone recommend a good current case or investigation that’s being discussed on this platform? I’d like to get involved discussing something that combined brains could perhaps help solve.

 

[sunshineray]

I just recently re-watched the Killing Fields. I have also seen some documentary's concerning the case. I find it curious how the bodies were placed. Some Serial Killers gather "trophy's" of their victims. I believe in this case, the area where the bodies where located is the area of his trophy case. He doesn't keep monetary items, he frequents the area, unnoticed. He is a local
The story states that the killer came from the road to bring the bodies to the site. I think this person came by boat. He is able to see this area from his home, maybe by using binoculars or walks the beach frequently. This person is well off and possibly frequents the area by helicopter. He is smart and meticulous. The only way he would drive to that area and park for some time, along that road with enough time to dig a hole and in possession of a dead body, is if he was a cop or another vehicle. This is just my opinion as an amateur sleuth.

Or maybe there's an accomplice who drives, drops off and then picks up the person discarding the bodies?

 

[clear sky]

There is no way to get the bodies from a boat to where they were dumped.

 

[NyxNY]

There is no way to get the bodies from a boat to where they were dumped.

Sure there is. Plenty. I'm guessing you're not from Long Island if you think this.

 

[clear sky]

Sure there is. Plenty. I'm guessing you're not from Long Island if you think this.

Are you suggesting they were put into a car after being brought in by boat?

 

[NyxNY]

Are you suggesting they were put into a car after being brought in by boat?

I am not suggesting anything. Just that there are plenty of ways, as opposed to your post saying "no way"

 

[clear sky]

I am not suggesting anything. Just that there are plenty of ways, as opposed to your post saying "no way"

I've been up and down OP many times.
So yes, I'm familiar with the area.
Most definitely, they were dumped in the bushes by car.

 

[Ozoner]

how were none of these calls not traced (to at least a remote location by the phone provider)? the friend who got the call saying shes in a *advertiser censored* house in queens i believe got the call on her cell phone correct? no one was able to see what cell tower it pinged off ?

Some of them were traced if I'm not mistaken. They were traced to crowded public areas in Manhattan. The killer wasn't dumb enough to make the calls from his own home.

 

[Srogers22]

*Trying to find out what evidence was listed for this serial killer/(s), if any?*

*Spit balling..:*
-Could brain storm on where there could be evidence found on the scene. Example: the burlap sacks are rough.. skin cells? Sweat drops?

-What areas do we know the victims were found/worked? Might help identify the hunting ground.

*Lingering Questions:*
- The layout of the bodies/body parts is questionable for me. Why have 5 found so close together and then a bunch vastly far apart?

-Haven't we observed that most semi modern serial killers idolize other serial killers or maybe even copy cat some of their tendencies? Could this/these killer/(s) have idols? Who could they be? Could that lead to trying to find them out?

-What does this person(s) do that gives them access to so much burlap? I mean, I think I've touched burlap once or twice in my life. I feel like you would have to have a hobby or occupation or know someone with a hobby or occupation that has a lot of access to burlap.

Thank you.

 

[Srogers22]

I was thinking about possible security footage. I saw one surfer cam that watches the waves & I wondered if someone could've been caught on that. Or a on a local business.

I'm sure that's been thought of, but just mentioning. Whoever it was might've been able to avoid cameras they know are on businesses but maybe they didn't think that there might be less obvious cameras like surf cameras.

 

[WINDSOR]

The existence of security cameras, was much less common ten years ago.

 

[Dhighsmith]

Some of them were traced if I'm not mistaken. They were traced to crowded public areas in Manhattan. The killer wasn't dumb enough to make the calls from his own home.

That’s interesting to know as I was under the impression that once tracking/recording device was installed that the calls stopped.

 

[surelockh33]

The bodies weren't found soon enough. Most had been exposed to the elements for many months or even years before they were found.

Jessica Taylor's torso was found about five days after she disappeared, back in July 2003, and Amber Lynn Costello had only been missing for about three-and-a-half months when her remains were found in December of 2010. There might be a slight chance of finding the killer's DNA on one of those two victims, but the chances of finding any perpetrator DNA on any of the others is basically nil.

Looks like they did find DNA, and someone of integrity with energy put it all together and found this evil . It just seemed odd that with the volume of evidence they had and modern technology, it would be unusual for this never to be solved. I sometimes wonder if a minority of police forces just don’t want to take the time.