GUILTY MA - Conrad Roy, 18, urged by friend, commits suicide, Fairhaven, 13 July 2014 #2 *guilty*

[MsJosie]

I know squat about law. But I think that if miss Carter is found innocent, it could be a catastrophic case to have on the books. She really needs to be held legally responsible for her actions and inactions in regards to Mr Roy. I get why they chose a judge. They are hoping for a purely clinical, lawful decision. She would be hanged by a jury of laymen and women. The judge can professionally sit back and consider her actions with the detachment and experience of his training.

I really hope he gets it right. Beyond any other reason, this young woman is dangerous. Can you imagine her having children? A relationship? A job? It makes me ill.

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I see her having a good time, living off her parents...no kids...too much trouble....that is if she is found innocent or if guilty gets a short sentence. Much like Anthony now. If she had children I am afraid it would not go well.

Because we had relatives in town I missed a lot of info. Was she tested for any mental defect? Was it ever released and brought into court? Maybe defense will bring it in next week. Thanks....saying thanks now as having hard time with Thanks button, site is sluggish and I have done everything I can to fix it....everyone must like WS!

 

[Safeguard]

Good Morning all,
Dont quote me on this but I remember reading years ago that a pyychopath does not always commit henious crimes but just ruin other peoples lives. So I wonder if there is a trigger.

rsbbm

I do suspect for some there is a trigger. I was just thinking last night, how much MC reminds me Karla Homolka. I think MC could become a "Karla" if she met someone like Paul Bernardo. I remember how Karla had an opportunity to help teen Leslie Mahaffy escape, but instead she fed her sedative to ease her fear, and later Paul strangled the girl to death. She considered that a "kindness"!

Bernardo was declared a dangerous offender and sentenced to life in prison while Homolka struck a plea with prosecutors in 1993 to serve 12 years in prison for manslaughter. ( Uhhhggg!). But the thing is, Karla now lives in Canada is married/with kids and apparently has not re-offended. But she is most definitely a psychopath. Tapes that surfaced show she played a far larger role in the murders, (which included her own sister Tammy) than she let on. In this article from May 31 2017:

Convicted teen killer Karla Homolka volunteering at Montreal elementary school
Homolka, convicted of manslaughter in 1992 for her involvement in the Paul Bernardo murders, volunteered at a school, including supervising a field trip and bringing her dog in to interact with children, media reports say.
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...lunteering-at-montreal-elementary-school.html

Sadly, I think Michele Carter will get off with a slap on the wrist. I don't even think she'll serve time at all. I have no idea if she'll
re-offend but I do fear her "crime" could attract potential Bernardo types try and contact her.

 

[gitana1]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40226332

"But Mr Cataldo reminded the judge, who will be determining the verdict after Ms Carter opted to forgo a jury trial, that Massachusetts is one of about 10 states that do not criminalize assisted suicide."

I think it is "unlawful" to assist in a suicide in MA, but not illegal...( or are those terms interchangeable? I am reading up and seeing some sources using "illegal" and some using "unlawful"... Not criminal seems to be key, however).

If something is unlawful, it means it is against the law, but not necessarily a criminal act; it can be a civil wrong, for which the wrongdoer may be sued, but will unlikely face criminal prosecution.

Illegal describes an act that is unlawful and also a criminal act.
As I understand it; ‘legal’ refers to statute legislation and ‘lawful’ refers to constitutional and common law. Lawful is higher than legal.

So... as Carter cannot be criminally charged with assisting, they are going with manslaughter?

I am unaware of a difference between illegal and unlawful. Both meant against the law.

The law is separated into two types- statute/code and case law. One is determined by the legislature and the other by courts.

There is no specific code section that makes assisting suicide illegal. So Carter is not charged with the specific crime of assisting suicide. However, her conduct in assisting suicide falls under homicide statutes via the common law. And via the actual homicide statutes themselves. So she is charged with manslaughter. Some people could actually be charged with murder for assisting a suicide. Like if a doctor gave a shot to a patient to help them die by stopping their heart.

So she is being criminally charged for her conduct in assisting (to me it is more like compelling) Conrad to die.

It's kind of like arguing that because there is no specific statute against shooting someone in the heart with a bow and arrow, it's not illegal. But there doesn't have to be a specific statute against that specific fact because it is already illegal. It's murder when a person unjustifiably takes the life of another, no matter how it's done.

The defense attorney is just parsing words in an effort to defend his client. He's right. There is no specific statute against assisted suicide. There doesn't have to be. It's still illegal.

 

[Jewels53]

I know squat about law. But I think that if miss Carter is found innocent, it could be a catastrophic case to have on the books. She really needs to be held legally responsible for her actions and inactions in regards to Mr Roy. I get why they chose a judge. They are hoping for a purely clinical, lawful decision. She would be hanged by a jury of laymen and women. The judge can professionally sit back and consider her actions with the detachment and experience of his training.

I really hope he gets it right. Beyond any other reason, this young woman is dangerous. Can you imagine her having children? A relationship? A job? It makes me ill.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

I agree with you on why they chose a judge. I also worry about MC not being held accountable for her actions. What really concerns me is the judge consistently getting on the Prosecutor for redundant testimony when it is on a disk that he will look at. At least I hope he looks at all evidence. The DA is treating this like it is a jury trial and I think that is why the judge admonishes her.

I think for MC and the law the judge does need to set this case as a precedent (sp)! jmo

 

[The Farm]

Thank you gitana1. I am so glad you are here.
And Safeguard because of what gitana1 has just said and has been said before in the back of my mind is just a slap on the wrist within the law.
gitana 1 what do you think will be the outcome of this?????????

 

[zencompass]

This is what I have been greatly hoping for all along - a legal precedent being set from this trial.

The increase of young suicides is a great concern. That is one reason I am hoping for a legal precedent to come out of this.

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[Safeguard]

Thank you gitana1. I am so glad you are here.
And Safeguard because of what gitana1 has just said and has been said before in the back of my mind is just a slap on the wrist within the law.
gitana 1 what do you think will be the outcome of this?????????

I'll be shocked if Carter gets jail time. First offender, her age ect... I think she's gonna get probation and possibly court ordered therapy. Sadly.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Remember that old movie "the bad seed"?
This girl even looks like the main character!
IMO, this is the face of evil.

IMO, there is no law that addessess this horrible situation.
Perhaps someone can talk her in to donating her brain when she passes, so we can study the pathology of evil; the lack of empathy.
Evil....
Pray she never has children.

All opinion and speculation.

 

[Safeguard]

Remember that old movie "the bad seed"?
This girl even looks like the main character!
IMO, this is the face of evil.

IMO, there is no law that addessess this horrible situation.
Perhaps someone can talk her in to donating her brain when she passes, so we can study the pathology of evil; the lack of empathy.
Evil....
Pray she never has children.

All opinion and speculation.

The Bad Seed was a masterpiece! Patty McCormick played Rhoda, and yes, the resemblance is uncanny!

I wonder did MC's family not ever look at her phone? Or were they concerned at all that she had no friends, or by any number of signs that she was...a little unwell?
I can't help but think, somewhere along the line, someone must have seen signs that this was a very disturbed person...

 

[gitana1]

I agree with you on why they chose a judge. I also worry about MC not being held accountable for her actions. What really concerns me is the judge consistently getting on the Prosecutor for redundant testimony when it is on a disk that he will look at. At least I hope he looks at all evidence. The DA is treating this like it is a jury trial and I think that is why the judge admonishes her.

I think for MC and the law the judge does need to set this case as a precedent (sp)! jmo

I agree with those who suspect she may not get a lot of time. I'm not sure but I think it's a huge possibility given her age, mental status, the experience of the judge, lack of priors, etc. If she shows remorse that will also help.

But I'm crossing my fingers that the judge's actions in coming down hard on the prosecution may be a good sign. In my experience, judges tend to give a lot of leeway to one side and come down harder on the opposition when they feel one side has a weaker case. It's kind of to make a record of lack of bias before ruling against a side. Minor 4th, is that your experience as well?

 

[indridcold]

I've been discussing and arguing this case all week with several friends, some of which have perhaps a reasonable hesitation as to if Carter should be prosecuted, albeit less informed. I started the trial on Tuesday with an open mind from both sides, but it didn't take long for me to decide that Michelle Carter not only holds significant responsibility but also deserves jail time.

Ironically, I think the most important part of the trial for anyone interested is the attempt to dismiss from the defense yesterday. It helps establish both sides, but ultimately, the consistently stellar prosecution offered up fantastic to points to all of the defense's arguments (it also showed just how desperate and weak they have been), which of course were good enough for the judge to deny the dismissal and continue on with the trial. So for anyone who really wants to get a good condensed reason as to why this case is worth a manslaughter trial, watch this...

https://youtu.be/dvBKO54qr2k

 

[gitana1]

Thank you gitana1. I am so glad you are here.
And Safeguard because of what gitana1 has just said and has been said before in the back of my mind is just a slap on the wrist within the law.
gitana 1 what do you think will be the outcome of this?????????

I posted before seeing your post!
See above and below.

I'll be shocked if Carter gets jail time. First offender, her age ect... I think she's gonna get probation and possibly court ordered therapy. Sadly.

I'm not sure about the outcome. Maybe the judge will give her time but you make a lot of sense and I think it is a big possibility she won't get much in the way of serious consequence. I think that's a shame if it happens because her type of person doesn't get better with therapy typically. They always remain a
threat to society.

 

[gitana1]

The Bad Seed was a masterpiece! Patty McCormick played Rhoda, and yes, the resemblance is uncanny!

I wonder did MC's family not ever look at her phone? Or were they concerned at all that she had no friends, or by any number of signs that she was...a little unwell?
I can't help but think, somewhere along the line, someone must have seen signs that this was a very disturbed person...

I wonder how she got that way. Often there are reasons a person twists into such evil.

 

[gitana1]

I've been discussing and arguing this case all week with several friends, some of which have perhaps a reasonable hesitation as to if Carter should be prosecuted, albeit less informed. I started the trial on Tuesday with an open mind from both sides, but it didn't take long for me to decide that Michelle Carter not only holds significant responsibility but also deserves jail time.

Ironically, I think the most important part of the trial for anyone interested is the attempt to dismiss from the defense yesterday. It helps establish both sides, but ultimately, the consistently stellar prosecution offered up fantastic to points to all of the defense's arguments (it also showed just how desperate and weak they have been), which of course were good enough for the judge to deny the dismissal and continue on with the trial. So for anyone who really wants to get a good condensed reason as to why this case is worth a manslaughter trial, watch this...

https://youtu.be/dvBKO54qr2k

You're right. Thanks so much for posting that. I will say that the defense is doing a great job. I wish the prosecution would've fleshed out a few things a bit more. But this isn't closing argument.

 

[Safeguard]

I wonder how she got that way. Often there are reasons a person twists into such evil.

Genetics or environment eh?...The Nature/Nurture debate seems as old as time. I have come feel its mostly both, a genetic predisposition to psychopathy/personality disorders, and triggers. ( of some sort).

I do believe in the "Bad Seed" genetic predisposition though. I've lived long enough to see first hand, some very young children, who display...unusually low (and high), empathetic traits. It is well recognized that "Blank Slate" theory is invalid. Children do come with predispositions. How those are influenced is the question that remains. imo

 

[Safeguard]

I've been discussing and arguing this case all week with several friends, some of which have perhaps a reasonable hesitation as to if Carter should be prosecuted, albeit less informed. I started the trial on Tuesday with an open mind from both sides, but it didn't take long for me to decide that Michelle Carter not only holds significant responsibility but also deserves jail time.

Ironically, I think the most important part of the trial for anyone interested is the attempt to dismiss from the defense yesterday. It helps establish both sides, but ultimately, the consistently stellar prosecution offered up fantastic to points to all of the defense's arguments (it also showed just how desperate and weak they have been), which of course were good enough for the judge to deny the dismissal and continue on with the trial. So for anyone who really wants to get a good condensed reason as to why this case is worth a manslaughter trial, watch this...

https://youtu.be/dvBKO54qr2k

Bbm
Maybe just show those friends who don't think she should be prosecuted this much:
"
At approximately 5:08 PM, Roy had returned from the beach and was considering backing out of the plan."
CONRAD: I’m home.
CARTER: Okay.
CONRAD: Ah.
CARTER: What?
CONRAD: I don’t know. I’m stressing.
CARTER: You’re fine. It’s gonna be okay. You just gotta do it, babe. You can’t think about it.
CONRAD: Okay. Okay. I got this.
CARTER: Yes, you do. I believe in you. Did you delete the messages?
CONRAD: Yes. But you’re going to keep messaging me.
CARTER: I will until you turn on the generator.
CONRAD: Okay. Well, I’m bringing my sisters for ice cream.
CARTER: So will you do it when you get back?
CONRAD: Yup, I’ll go right there.
CARTER: Okay.
CONRAD: Love you.
CARTER: I love so much."

 

[Steleheart]

Yay Buzzfeed!! How great that Buzzfeed followed up on this in such depth. I could tell when the person brought this to everyone's attention in the comments (in the link you posted earlier as your source) that other posters were on it like we were...contacting the author of the article and the D.A.

It's interesting to find out that MC was a huge fan of Lea Michele (her favorite person). As a commenter on this article mentioned, MC had to copy other people's words to express emotions she knew she should feel. She also seems to want to be just like Michele. I think it's quite possibly significant that Monteith and Roy died a year apart to the day. Does anyone think it's possible that MC pushed him so hard partly for that reason? I wonder. Any way you look at it, it's depraved and evil.

The more I look at the Glee connection and the 'totality' of her quotes and references the more I am convinced that she is not mentally ill but reckless, immature and self absorbed - that she was simply copying an episode that she knows garnered the Glee series a lot of attention. I don't think she felt it, I think she observed the reactions to it.
And copied it.

At first I thought the DA should jump all over this, but unfortunately I also see the defense spinning it into some Dissociative identity disorder, exigent circumstances, inability to comprehend, etc. If there were diagnoses of psychopathy and such I think they would have been introduced already. There were hearings about her mental state in the beginning. She's competent!

I think the Commonwealth has a good case as it stands. If it were a Jury I'd want to see them pull out all the stops.

JMO

 

[rosesfromangels]

Genetics or environment eh?...The Nature/Nurture debate seems as old as time. I have come feel its mostly both, a genetic predisposition to psychopathy/personality disorders, and triggers. ( of some sort).
I do believe in the "Bad Seed" genetic predisposition though. I've lived long enough to see first hand, some very young children, who display...unusually low (and high), empathetic traits. It is well recognized that "Blank Slate" theory is invalid. Children do come with predispositions. How those are influenced is the question that remains. imo

Agree. I believe this is a brain abnormality; pure speculation. Some part of the empathy sector is malfunctioning. I wonder if she has a history of abusing animals or small children?

All amateur speculation and opinion only.

 

[katydid23]

It sounds like she is bullying him into killing himself. If bullies are going to be arrested when someone kills themselves, why shouldn't she be charged as well?
Just because she pretended to be his 'friend' does not mean she wasn't actually a vicious bully.

 

[indridcold]

Yes. I agree. That, and the other incredibly damning text, other than instructing Conrad to get back into his truck would be: "Sam, [the police] read my messages with him I'm done,"... "His family will hate me and I can go to jail."