MA - Lindsay Clancy, Strangled 3 Children in Murder/Suicide Attempt, Duxbury, Jan 2023

We don’t know either way if she has regained consciousness. All we know is that she was unconscious when they found her, wether she has awoken or remains unconscious isn’t known either way. So we don’t know if she is saying anything at or even even has the ability to at this point.

It’s a big unknown. All we do know is the spouses version of events. His report is the basis of what is known to date. At least publicly.
 
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She has been charged with murdering her children. We have to place some trust in LE here that they investigated thoroughly enough to determine she is the apparent perpetrator.

 
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Part of the problem is the Deinstitutionalization of mental institutions in the 80's. I think it was a bad policy.

It is up to different states now how they treat this illness when they apply sentences. In some countries they have infanticide laws.

When Giving Birth Leads to Psychosis, Then to Infanticide
In mass it he can use the insanity defense if they can prove they weren’t aware of what they were doing when they were doing it, that they aren’t “criminally liable”
 
We don’t know all the fact. They are very limited. I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable to hope the police do their due diligence. <modsnip> And innocent until proven guilty you know.

<modsnip> I hope all angles are being investigated is called due diligence. It woudl be ignorant to not at least rule out other possibilities.

If she did do it in a state of psychosis she is unlikely to ever stand trial, as they would easily be able to prove mental insanity with all her history and diagnosis.

I just dont think people jump out of second story windows to commit suicide. Especially not closed ones.

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People do all manner of things to escape the pain/confusion/fear/chaos that is in their head. There is nothing rational about it and if you try to lump it in with "everyone else does it this way" or "no one would do it that way", you're going to have a long line of people with stories to prove you wrong.
 
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This is such a heartbreaking case! I wish she had been inpatient instead of at home. Wishes won't help at this point though.
While I'm not sure how common it is, at my hospital we provide a PPD & PPP discussion with an RN, written information and list of resources to our mother's (and any family member present) who are being discharged. Many patients really know very little about the condition. MOO
 
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Massachusetts mom Lindsey Clancy arrest warrant reveals eight counts for allegedly strangling kids​


The arrest warrant for a Massachusetts nurse, who's accused of strangling her three young children before attempting suicide, includes two counts of murder, three counts of strangulation or suffocation, and three counts of assault and battery with a deadly weapon.

Lindsay Clancy, 32, remains in the hospital and will be arraigned "as soon as possible," Plymouth District Attorney Tim Cruz said during a press conference Wednesday.

 

Lindsay Clancy: Husband Called 911, DA Says in Duxbury Murder Case​

Lindsay Clancy’s husband Patrick Clancy placed the 911 call alerting Massachusetts police to his wife’s suspected suicide attempt, Plymouth County District Attorney Tim Cruz revealed in a news conference on January 25, 2023.

 
Who knows if she'll ever get out. Shades of Andrea Yates.
Overview of Post-partum psychosis

Andrea Yates indeed. I live in Texas and her story has haunted me. She is living out her life in Kerrville State Hospital, a facility for the mentally ill.

Andrea Yates was originally tried, convicted of capital murder and sentenced to life in prison. She received a 2nd trial based on false testimony in the original trial and was subsequently found guilty by reason of insanity. The psychiatrist who treated Yates' post-partum psychosis after the birth of her 4th child testified at Yates' retrial: "... that she warned Andrea Yates not to have any more children after she tried to commit suicide twice within months of having her fourth child in 1999..." The psychiatrist noted, "I could pretty much predict that Mrs. Yates would have another episode of psychosis..."
Doctor: I warned Andrea Yates not to have any more children

Revisiting Andrea Yates is a good way to familiarize oneself with the horror of post-partum psychosis. A book written about her case:
Are You There Alone?: The Unspeakable Crime of Andrea Yates
 
Overview of Post-partum psychosis

Andrea Yates indeed. I live in Texas and her story has haunted me. She is living out her life in Kerrville State Hospital, a facility for the mentally ill.

Andrea Yates was originally tried, convicted of capital murder and sentenced to life in prison. She received a 2nd trial based on false testimony in the original trial and was subsequently found guilty by reason of insanity. The psychiatrist who treated Yates' post-partum psychosis after the birth of her 4th child testified at Yates' retrial: "... that she warned Andrea Yates not to have any more children after she tried to commit suicide twice within months of having her fourth child in 1999..." The psychiatrist noted, "I could pretty much predict that Mrs. Yates would have another episode of psychosis..."
Doctor: I warned Andrea Yates not to have any more children

Revisiting Andrea Yates is a good way to familiarize oneself with the horror of post-partum psychosis. A book written about her case:
Are You There Alone?: The Unspeakable Crime of Andrea Yates
Did you mean to type NOT guilty by reason of insanity? Because that would make more sense.
 
Part of the problem is the Deinstitutionalization of mental institutions in the 80's. I think it was a bad policy.

No, it wasn't. Mentally ill people who are more likely to be the VICTIMS of crime than perpetrators. Those of us who are not mentally ill should be thanking whatever god, faith, or whatever we believe in because it could just as easily have been us or our loved ones who suffered from these afflictions and we/they shouldn't have their civil rights stripped from them due society's ignorance of their illness.
 
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Was jumping from a 2nd story window an actual suicide attempt? I wouldn't assume that I would die from that fall after looking at the house. I do agree that we are toeing a fine line with this one b/c I'm struggling between feelings of "how could you do this to your own babies?!" and "mannn I remember how rough it was when I had ppd". Luckily, I have never experienced hallucinations so that is something I can't personally comprehend but I can understand that she may have been completely not herself and never would have done this otherwise. It's just a horrible tragedy for everyone involved but she does need to take accountability and responsibility for her actions. And imo, she should WANT to do her time.

When you're psychotic, you're not able to reason. You lose the ability to have coherent thoughts or plan things out. It doesn't surprise me that she attempted suicide by jumping out of a second story window. She likely wasn't able to make the conclusion that she wouldn't die. Sometimes, people in psychosis are so frightened and paranoid, they just run. When I'm treating patients in the emergency room, anytime someone is brought in by police or EMS for "running," whether that's into traffic or into a body of water or out of a window, one of my top differentials is acute psychosis.
 
This is so devastatingly heartbreaking.

I just don't know what to say, so sad and tragic.

My neighbour jumped out of her second floor window onto the concrete patio below. She had 5 kids and had lost her husband a few months earlier. Does not remember a thing, survived with a broken back and spent months in a psychiatric ward.
None of us can comprehend the mindset of a person in the throes of psychosis.
 
In MA it’s the states burden to prove criminal responsibility, and criminal responsibility in the instance of mental illness comes down to whether the illness results in the person being substantially unable to appreciate either the criminality or wrongfulness of their conduct or substantially unable to conform their conduct to the requirements of the law.
 
Law to the side, I’m an American mother of three, and a reasonably educated non-mental health professional, and I look at this case and I see a tragic outcome of severe postpartum depression into psychosis. And I see a family that had means and access to care, and was getting care, and it wasn’t enough in retrospect, but no one had a crystal ball.
Lindsay Clancy and her husband and family strike me very much as people I would’ve met in my normal course of professional business, and would have respected and felt commonality with as a similarly-aged family with similar lives - and would’ve liked.
I feel no impetus to thrash her or spend the money of the taxpayers of Massachusetts prosecuting her or even convicting her, honestly. When and if she is conscious and effectively treated, she will be her own punisher, far more than any sentence society could render. I believe MOO that she will have permanent physical disabilities, but that isn’t even close to what I’m fundamentally saying, which is: once the meds and counseling work - she will convict herself 100x over. Whatever life she has left will metaphorically be spent in Dante’s Purgatorio, and her husband will convict himself too, forever, in a different way.
Genuinely believe, as an amateur student of this story - and not a professional or an actively involved person - MOO - that this is a woman who loved her kids and her family for a long time and went into mental health crisis.

The circumstances are not similar, but as I think about Patrick Clancy and what’s ahead for him, my mind went to William Petit less than a hundred miles south in Connecticut. And I hope what happens for PC is what WP was able to get to, in finding a new way to be and survive, respecting that nothing will ever be normal for either again. William Petit - Wikipedia
 
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