MA - Lindsay Clancy, Strangled 3 Children in Murder/Suicide Attempt, Duxbury, Jan 2023

[TDoc72]

IMO the defense coming out with her medications is misleading without doses and times and timeframes, etc…

Yes, they gave the impression that she was taking all of the prescriptions (12?) at once. And I continue to see people quote or talk about this. I think they were trying different things and/or combos of things to find something that would work for her. But I guess we won’t ever really know unless they release her tox reports from her hospital stay.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

<modsnip - quoted post & response removed>
Resentment could play a big part in this, but it cannot be the only thing involved because the evidence is there that there ARE MH issues that has been established, and that is why we are allowed to be discussing and speculate the MH of a person who murdered all of her children and then tried to kill herself by cutting AFAIK and then locking her bedroom door and jumping from the window, here on WS.
IMO
This just all screams mental breakdown. I have experienced such, and although I never thought of hurting my children, my children have always been the positive constant to pull me back from fatalistic thinking, just caring through the daily caring for them that all mothers do. There have been days in the past 29 years that in very depressive moods, i spent 85% of the day in bed or wholly locked into an (unreasonable) anxiety that I have failed at being a 'good' mum. That failure then adds to your depressive self-hatred and the unreasonable media view that mothers have to be perfect, and it becomes a vicious cycle.
I coped, was strong, resilient, and, most importantly, accepted my MH for what it was and wanted to get better. I have been proactive and self-advocating for my MH from the moment of surrendering to acceptance 20-something years ago.

Although I thankfully never experienced what it seems LC has, from what has been released so far. I am not naive enough to think it could have never of happened to me.

 

[IDK]

Family expressed concern about mother’s medication before prosecutor says she killed three children

Arguments at this week's arraignment made it clear that Lindsay Clancy's treatment for postpartum depression will play a role as she stands accused of killing her three children.

www.wbur.org

Her husband said she was addicted to benzos?

Also from the article:


"Patrick Clancy told the police that defendant had never heard voices before," Sprague wrote. "He also told the police the defendant had never said the word 'psychosis' to him before. The first time she used the word 'psychosis' was when she was with the doctor hired by defense counsel and using his phone."

After the court appearance Tuesday, Zeizel said he is still evaluating Clancy but it appears she could have been suffering from sudden hallucinations.

“These are people who one day will be functioning well, but because they have the onset of command hallucinations, which they adhere to and they believe the voice, they have to do something," Zeizel said. "That's when tragedy occurs.”

So I know that one conclusion based on this (and what the DA seems to be implying) is that the forensic psychologist planted the idea about voices, which were never mentioned before.

On the other hand, isn’t it also possible that she had heard voices and just hadn’t mentioned it to anyone? The voices might have told her not to tell anyone.
Also, for someone who appears to have been a Type A perfectionist, admitting what was really going on might have been a bridge too far.

Just pondering here, obviously I don’t have any answers.

 

[Which_pancake]

Also from the article:


"Patrick Clancy told the police that defendant had never heard voices before," Sprague wrote. "He also told the police the defendant had never said the word 'psychosis' to him before. The first time she used the word 'psychosis' was when she was with the doctor hired by defense counsel and using his phone."

After the court appearance Tuesday, Zeizel said he is still evaluating Clancy but it appears she could have been suffering from sudden hallucinations.

“These are people who one day will be functioning well, but because they have the onset of command hallucinations, which they adhere to and they believe the voice, they have to do something," Zeizel said. "That's when tragedy occurs.”

So I know that one conclusion based on this (and what the DA seems to be implying) is that the forensic psychologist planted the idea about voices, which were never mentioned before.

On the other hand, isn’t it also possible that she had heard voices and just hadn’t mentioned it to anyone? The voices might have told her not to tell anyone.
Also, for someone who appears to have been a Type A perfectionist, admitting what was really going on might have been a bridge too far.

Just pondering here, obviously I don’t have any answers.

She also could have mentioned hearing voices to previous doctors, who would be unable to publicly comment without her permission. IMO

 

[SpideySense]

On the other hand, isn’t it also possible that she had heard voices and just hadn’t mentioned it to anyone? The voices might have told her not to tell anyone.
Also, for someone who appears to have been a Type A perfectionist, admitting what was really going on might have been a bridge too far.

Just pondering here, obviously I don’t have any answers.

RSBM

I’m conflicted about this too. She apparently did notify her husband and health professionals that she was experiencing suicidal ideation and thoughts of harming her children prior to the events of that day.

On one hand, I can see it being better or easier to admit to command hallucinations, because you’d be saying “I love my kids and I have no desire to harm them, but I’m terrified one day I might do what this voice is telling me.” Admitting to suicidal and homicidal thoughts, intrusive or otherwise, in the absence of command hallucinations leaves you alone culpable for these feelings, even if they’re understood as a symptom of PPD or PPA.

On the other hand, I suppose for an RN to admit to hallucinations, she could recognize that as an indication of a more serious or long-term disorder that may impact the remainder of her life, her ability to have more children, her job, etc.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

“I do not know a better mother than Lindsay Clancy,” wrote nurse Erika Sevieri, who worked alongside Clancy at Massachusetts General Hospital. “She lived and breathed for her children.”

Margaret Hamp, another former coworker, recalled how Clancy would use a baby monitor to check in on her sleeping children while working the Night Shift.

“I can remember a time prior to Lindsay and Pat [Clancy, her husband,] getting married that Lindsay would say she wanted to have a baseball team of children,” Hamp wrote.

Lindsay Clancy. – Facebook
The letters, all sent to Clancy’s defense attorney Kevin J. Reddington, include not only character references from those who knew her, but also notes from medical and legal experts offering their insight on the case, and from strangers sharing their own experiences with postpartum mental illness. At least one person mentioned they were writing at Patrick Clancy’s request.

Lindsay Clancy, 32, is accused of using exercise bands to strangle her three young children before severely injuring herself in a suicide attempt on Jan. 24. She was arraigned in Plymouth District Court last week on murder, strangulation, and assault and battery charges.

Reddington has argued that his client was overmedicated and in the throes of postpartum mental illness at the time.

'I do not know a better mother': Dozens of letters show public support for Lindsay Clancy

"I do not know a better mother than Lindsay Clancy," one of Clancy's coworkers wrote. Read more on Boston.com.

www.boston.com

 

[Emerald1328]

I never advise my patients to come off med during pregnancy. Anyone with bipolar disorder, who is of child-bearing age, is put on meds that account for the possibility of pregnancy. We also engage in this conversation BEFORE pregnancy (which is why I make a point of saying family planning is part of their healthcare). All meds have risks, but some worse than others to the baby and those are the meds I don't use during pregnancy. If I know ahead of time she's trying to get pregnant, we may consider tapering the meds only for the first trimester.

You've now made me wonder if LC came off her meds during pregnancy. That would be horrible.

I’m sorry, I don’t mean to piggyback off your post again but what the heck??? I stayed on my bipolar medication throughout my first pregnancy. No one warned me that one of my medications was unsafe for breastfeeding until after I had given birth. That was devastating to learn. My husband and I wanted to have another child within a year so after getting the news about not being able to breastfeed, I told my psychiatrist that I’d like to go off of my bipolar medication in preparation for getting pregnant soon. That way I would be able to breastfeed. He was like “Sure! If you have any issues, give me a call!” Thank god I didn’t really have any issues for the 6 months before the pregnancy and 9 months of the second pregnancy that I didn’t take them. I went back on them shortly after giving birth though because I was becoming suicidal.

Again, I am not questioning you at all. I am, however, questioning the care I received during my pregnancies by multiple people. It’s horrifying to think that, if truly a result of PPP, I could have been in LC’s situation.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Do we know if LC was on meds prior to her last pregnancy and birth? Did she have any prior history of depression, anxiety, and was she under the care of a therapist or psychiatric doctor?

My concern is that if she had no prior history, she may not have recognized she was ill until it became unmanageable. And if she had no doctors following her care, aside from ob/gyn, her escalating symptoms were not recognized.

Is there much proactivity by ob/gyn staff (or pediatricians following the newborn) to monitor new mothers for PPD/ PPP?

 

[Zella]

Do we know if LC was on meds prior to her last pregnancy and birth? Did she have any prior history of depression, anxiety, and was she under the care of a therapist or psychiatric doctor?

I've not personally seen anything that didn't seem to entail after the birth of the last child. It would definitely be interesting to know more about this, as well as the general timeline of her treatment, diagnoses, etc. It's not been readily clear to me if all of the medications and diagnoses she received before the murders that have been mentioned were in a matter of weeks or months beforehand. MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

I am also curious about her work-life balance heading into the pregnancy. Was she called upon to work long hours, possibly assisting and backfilling for others during COVID, as many hospital workers were? Long hours, 2 kids, many day care centers were closing often due to sick kids, pregnancy, then home with all 3 and a newborn.

Potentially a lot of stressors in a couple of years time.

 

[Marysmith]

I’m sorry, I don’t mean to piggyback off your post again but what the heck??? I stayed on my bipolar medication throughout my first pregnancy. No one warned me that one of my medications was unsafe for breastfeeding until after I had given birth. That was devastating to learn. My husband and I wanted to have another child within a year so after getting the news about not being able to breastfeed, I told my psychiatrist that I’d like to go off of my bipolar medication in preparation for getting pregnant soon. That way I would be able to breastfeed. He was like “Sure! If you have any issues, give me a call!” Thank god I didn’t really have any issues for the 6 months before the pregnancy and 9 months of the second pregnancy that I didn’t take them. I went back on them shortly after giving birth though because I was becoming suicidal.

Again, I am not questioning you at all. I am, however, questioning the care I received during my pregnancies by multiple people. It’s horrifying to think that, if truly a result of PPP, I could have been in LC’s situation.

Oh wow. I’m glad you’re ok!!

 

[everlearning]

Timeline

Lindsay Clancy timeline: Here's what prosecutors say happened in the family's Duxbury home on Jan. 24

Court documents reveal further details about the grisly scene first responders found at Clancy's Summer Street home.

www.boston.com

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I’m sorry, I don’t mean to piggyback off your post again but what the heck??? I stayed on my bipolar medication throughout my first pregnancy. No one warned me that one of my medications was unsafe for breastfeeding until after I had given birth. That was devastating to learn. My husband and I wanted to have another child within a year so after getting the news about not being able to breastfeed, I told my psychiatrist that I’d like to go off of my bipolar medication in preparation for getting pregnant soon. That way I would be able to breastfeed. He was like “Sure! If you have any issues, give me a call!” Thank god I didn’t really have any issues for the 6 months before the pregnancy and 9 months of the second pregnancy that I didn’t take them. I went back on them shortly after giving birth though because I was becoming suicidal.

Again, I am not questioning you at all. I am, however, questioning the care I received during my pregnancies by multiple people. It’s horrifying to think that, if truly a result of PPP, I could have been in LC’s situation.

I'm really sorry to hear that :-(. All I can say is I take a much different approach with my patients.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

This alleged phone call and other potential evidence could be crucial in deciding whether or not Massachusetts nurse Lindsay Clancy, 32, planned the tragic killings, a criminal defense lawyer has said.


Defense attorney Duncan Levin, who has represented the likes of Anna Delvey and Harvey Weinstein, claimed that prosecutors will be looking for any instance where the mother was of sound mind before the incident took place.

The evidence could prove the killings were "premeditated and that she was in a calm, collected frame of thinking," Levin exclusively told The U.S. Sun.

"This case is not going to center around whether she committed the murders or not," he said.

"That's something that is not going to be an issue in this case.

Eerie Lindsay Clancy phone calls key to deciding if kids' 'murders premeditated'

A SUFFERING mother allegedly chatted with her husband on the phone while he shopped at a pharmacy just moments before she strangled their three children, prosecutors claim. This alleged phone call …

www.the-sun.com

 

[GRT]

This alleged phone call and other potential evidence could be crucial in deciding whether or not Massachusetts nurse Lindsay Clancy, 32, planned the tragic killings, a criminal defense lawyer has said.


Defense attorney Duncan Levin, who has represented the likes of Anna Delvey and Harvey Weinstein, claimed that prosecutors will be looking for any instance where the mother was of sound mind before the incident took place.

The evidence could prove the killings were "premeditated and that she was in a calm, collected frame of thinking," Levin exclusively told The U.S. Sun.

"This case is not going to center around whether she committed the murders or not," he said.

"That's something that is not going to be an issue in this case.

Eerie Lindsay Clancy phone calls key to deciding if kids' 'murders premeditated'

A SUFFERING mother allegedly chatted with her husband on the phone while he shopped at a pharmacy just moments before she strangled their three children, prosecutors claim. This alleged phone call …

www.the-sun.com

I could see that undermining her defense. I mean, either she was in a state of desperation, and she couldn't control herself, or she was collected enough to appear calm when she sent her husband off and when she talked to him on the phone.

JMOO but this case bothers me because despite her depression and jumping from the window, she seemed as though she was in control of her senses there.

MOO

 

[IDK]

Here is an interesting article (from 2015) that highlights 62 cases in MA where the defense used insanity as a legal defense. According to the article, nationally an insanity defense is successful only 25% of the time. One case involved the med Ritalin, but the jury found him guilty. Couldn’t find anything more up to date, so posting because it gives some good background.

Insanity defense in Massachusetts: Does it ever work?

In an insanity defense, the defense argues the person did not appreciate the nature or quality or wrongfulness of the acts.

www.wcvb.com

 

[MissSuzie]

I've not personally seen anything that didn't seem to entail after the birth of the last child. It would definitely be interesting to know more about this, as well as the general timeline of her treatment, diagnoses, etc. It's not been readily clear to me if all of the medications and diagnoses she received before the murders that have been mentioned were in a matter of weeks or months beforehand. MOO

This is from today in local media. Nothing really new, although it’s interesting that it suggests that LC’s MH issues surfaced 3 months after birth of the youngest and are described as anxiety about heading back to work, which I suppose is understandable with 3 small children, may they RIP. It doesn’t say that there were not issues prior to this, but it doesn’t mention anything about it. Lindsay Clancy timeline: What court records, attorney statements reveal about the Duxbury mother’s mental health

 

[steeltowngirl]

This case somewhat reminds me of a local case where a mother, Laurel Schlemmer, drowned her two sons. She said ‘crazy voices and thoughts’ drove her to it. Eventually, after multiple attempts to determine her competency to stand trial, Judge Manning decided to convict Schlemmer, 43, of “Third Degree Murder but Mentally Ill.”

Mom Found Guilty of Murder For Drowning Sons in Bathtub

Laurel Michelle Schlemmer will receive mental health treatment while she is incarcerated

people.com

Pennsylvania Mom Allegedly Drowned Two Sons in Bathtub

Laurel Schlemmer is accused of drowning two youngest boys, ages 3 and 6, in bathtub in 2014

people.com

 

[IDK]

From the Boston globe— opinion piece by writer who was able to view photos of the Clancy home afterwards, but before it was professionally cleaned ( I had to open in a private browser in order to not hit a paywall):

The little boots inside Lindsay Clancy’s house make clear none of it makes any sense at all - The Boston Globe

A photo of the boots arrived on my phone one night last week, part of a batch of more than two dozen pictures of the inside of the Clancy’s house taken a few days after the children’s deaths.

www.bostonglobe.com

“A photo of the boots arrived on my phone one night last week, part of a batch of more than two dozen pictures of the inside of the Clancy’s house taken a few days after the deaths. The brief backstory: Lindsay Clancy is represented by Kevin Reddington, a Brockton-based lawyer who has spent the better part of his career bearing witness to the dark side of humanity yet, somehow, still finding the good.”

“They show a couple, a family, trying to hold things together in the face of overwhelming forces. And they show that they didn’t get the help that they sought — maybe for good reasons, maybe not. Right now, we don’t know why.”

Then near the end of the piece:
“The prosecution might think it has the answers it needs. But any reasonable person, anyone who has ever dealt with any kind of mental illness, knows one true thing: None of it makes any sense at all.”

 

[Cedars]

Then near the end of the piece:
“The prosecution might think it has the answers it needs. But any reasonable person, anyone who has ever dealt with any kind of mental illness, knows one true thing: None of it makes any sense at all.”

My opinion is the prosecutor is just doing their job. The letter of the law is very clear, the prosecutor would not be doing their job if they were to pick and choose which cases to prosecute, based on what tugs on their heartstrings. (The author acknowledges this in the column)

Then, it seems to me that, obviously, the defense lawyer is also doing their job, defending their client by sending the media photos of little booties, etc, trying to persuade them to cover this story sympathetically to the defense, and hostile towards the prosecution.

I also think the opinion-piece writer is just doing a job, writing a story that will absorb people and get them to feel a certain way, that the author presumably feels. So far, so good.

However, I object to the authoritative tone the opinion-writer takes in that last paragraph, when they took a cheap shot at the prosecutor as the only one to blame for this whole sorry mess.

I think he should have been honest, and stated that he is personally confused by how it doesn't make sense.

IMO, every case can be seen with compassion, and as not making sense. For some strange reason, people like be on one side or the other, creating villians and victims.like in old-fashioned melodramas.

JMO