MA MA - Molly Bish, 16, Warren, 27 Jun 2000

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When you research New England cases online you often see speculation as to whether Molly's case is possibly connected to another vile child murder that of Holly Piirainen. Of course the girls almost connected the cases themselves with Molly's letter to Holly. Here is a comparison of the two composite sketches in the cases and of course Holly's brother composed the sketch in his sisters case out of his nightmares:

91e03a5c9baa0bbcb5249cbb760b8cce.jpg


Local Missing Girls to be Featured on Investigation Discovery


Here is the Dark Minds episode about unsolved New England child murders which features both cases. My suspect would be the Connecticut River Valley Killer who was definitely active in New England in the 1980s. It is my view that this kind of Serial Killer is unlikely to have any kind of moral compass so would kill children as well if the opportunity arose:

 
In the 48 hours episode about Molly Bish's case back in 2003/2004, it looks like they show a picture of Molly Bish's stuff as left on Commins Pond Beach. Maybe what I am about to write means nothing if the scene is just a "re-creation" picture for 48 hours and not the actual picture.

There is something very important missing from Molly Bish's stuff. It is an important piece of equipment. Do you see it?

No rescue tube.
 
Here is the Molly Bish Digitour I found done by a resident who lives on Commins Pond Road. He did a nice job, but fast forwards a lot so it is hard to get a sense of timing. Supposedly, according to her mom, there was some little barn that Molly would have to go to in order to get the rest of her lifeguard stuff that needed to be set up before her shift. I am guessing this is where her rescue tube would have been located. I could not find the little barn in the video so maybe it is the Commins Pond building in the video or maybe the little barn/shed has been taken down since June 2000?

 
The Criminology true crime podcast did a great job discussing Molly Bish's case. It is a great listen if you want a good overview of the Molly Bish case.

About the only thing I wondered was if Molly Bish got the lawn chair from the shed with the lifeguard stuff, why did she not also get the rescue tube? I always thought you had to have a rescue tube to lifeguard, but maybe I am wrong? So it looks like since the lawn chair was obviously found out on the beach the day of the kidnapping that Molly Bish had already been to this lifeguard shed to get her stuff. So my theory about getting latex gloves from the first aid kit is probably wrong since she would have been around her stuff theoretically.

I guess I was always hoping that the kidnapper/murderer would not be the person in the white car because that means that unless the white car belongs to one of the persons of interest in Molly Bish's case, then the murderer is basically a ghost. No one has any idea who he is.

Hopefully someday science can answer the questions about this case that people could not answer.
 
weepingangel said:
Cape woman eyes new measures to identify sister's killer
Click to expand...
"The Molly Bish case is one of the unsolved homicides in Worcester County that District Attorney Joseph Early Jr. is continuing to investigate, including through the use of DNA evidence left at the crime scenes. In 2016, Early announced he was submitting to a lab 24 pieces of evidence in the Bish case for enhanced DNA analysis, but so far his office has not publicly announced the results of the analysis.

Now, Early is interested in pursuing what is called familial DNA search — also known as FDS — to generate leads in the Bish murder and other violent crimes in his jurisdiction.

“We have 12 states that employ the use of familial DNA,” Early said. “I’d like to see us take a real good look at it in Massachusetts because it can help us obtain convictions. It could help us narrow down a lot of unnecessary police work, but it can also exonerate the innocent.”

When asked by investigators, Bish-Martin said she turned to state Sen. Anne Gobi, D-Spencer, and others to write legislation to allow familial DNA search in Massachusetts. In the draft legislation, as of July 10, the bill would permit “familial searches and partial DNA matches in investigating certain unsolved crimes” as an amendment to the state law that governs the use of the state DNA database. The state DNA database is managed by the director of the state crime lab within the department of the state police."
 
Im going to sound like a broken record here , but In most abduction/murders of children the killer is in the area of the abduction for legitimate reasons, he usually works, or lives, or traverses that area regularly. In this case however i feel this may be a case, of someone watching the area because he knows the objects of his desires are there (young females)

In most abduction/Murder cases of children the victim is chosen purely due to opportunity , the abduction is a spur of the moment unplanned event, however I feel different about this case.

I feel there was planning involved, I feel there was some sort of surveillance done prior to the event. However Molly individually may have not been an intended target the offender may have just been lying in wait for a lone female . If indeed however he man in the car seen my Magi Bish the previous day of her disappearance was involved that may change things a bit however.

Most Abduction murders of children initiate contact with the victim through deceptive means, or direct assault (grabbing) however the older the victim the higher the likelihood the use of deception, older kids are bigger, heavier, stronger, more likely to put up a fight.

Not much can be gleaned from the open first aid kit , that could reflect that she was approached and the offender asked for help, that could mean she injured herself and he approached to offer assistance, or that she was simply checking out the first aid kit and he approached her be it seen or unseen .

How did her get her out of Comins? did he get her to willfully leave through ruse? did he grab her and physically drag her out of there ?(unlikely) did he assault her render unconscious and carry her out? or did he threaten her produce a weapon or "something else"(badge? possibly a fake crisis "my friend needs help over here") to get her to leave with him ?

Was the mysterious man in the white car the offender?, was there a chance he returned the following day to see if the pretty blonde lifeguard would be there in the AM before anyone else?, I tend to feel he did but he knew he couldn't park in the parking area therefore he parked in the adjacent cemetery and staked out the area.

Sexual assault is almost always the governing factor in abduction/murders with murder secondary to conceal the act.

Victims clothes were apparently cut off , which we can surmise the offender at least had a knife, possibly the murder weapon (cause of death could not be determined however manual /ligature strangulation is the most common method as many of these events go unplanned) and what he possibly used to force her to leave.

The body recover site is often less than 200 feet from the murder site, and the offender is usually most familiar with the site where the victim is recovered.

The killing of the victim (barring evidence of any unusual acts by the offender) is usually done in the quickest manner possible then the victim is often left in the area where they succumb. Minor movement by the offender to conceal the body are often taken. then the offender beats his escape

Many offenders return to the body recovery site prior to the discovery of the body, in this case I would not rule it out at all .

Other possibilities:
Could the offender just happen to be there ?
Could this have been unplanned ?
Could it be someone who knew she would be there, possibly someone she knew and was ok leaving the area with ?

Were left pondering these unless more information is ever released
 
Kell1 said:
Im going to sound like a broken record here , but In most abduction/murders of children the killer is in the area of the abduction for legitimate reasons, he usually works, or lives, or traverses that area regularly. In this case however i feel this may be a case, of someone watching the area because he knows the objects of his desires are there (young females)

In most abduction/Murder cases of children the victim is chosen purely due to opportunity , the abduction is a spur of the moment unplanned event, however I feel different about this case.

I feel there was planning involved, I feel there was some sort of surveillance done prior to the event. However Molly individually may have not been an intended target the offender may have just been lying in wait for a lone female . If indeed however he man in the car seen my Magi Bish the previous day of her disappearance was involved that may change things a bit however.

Most Abduction murders of children initiate contact with the victim through deceptive means, or direct assault (grabbing) however the older the victim the higher the likelihood the use of deception, older kids are bigger, heavier, stronger, more likely to put up a fight.

Not much can be gleaned from the open first aid kit , that could reflect that she was approached and the offender asked for help, that could mean she injured herself and he approached to offer assistance, or that she was simply checking out the first aid kit and he approached her be it seen or unseen .

How did her get her out of Comins? did he get her to willfully leave through ruse? did he grab her and physically drag her out of there ?(unlikely) did he assault her render unconscious and carry her out? or did he threaten her produce a weapon or "something else"(badge? possibly a fake crisis "my friend needs help over here") to get her to leave with him ?

Was the mysterious man in the white car the offender?, was there a chance he returned the following day to see if the pretty blonde lifeguard would be there in the AM before anyone else?, I tend to feel he did but he knew he couldn't park in the parking area therefore he parked in the adjacent cemetery and staked out the area.

Sexual assault is almost always the governing factor in abduction/murders with murder secondary to conceal the act.

Victims clothes were apparently cut off , which we can surmise the offender at least had a knife, possibly the murder weapon (cause of death could not be determined however manual /ligature strangulation is the most common method as many of these events go unplanned) and what he possibly used to force her to leave.

The body recover site is often less than 200 feet from the murder site, and the offender is usually most familiar with the site where the victim is recovered.

The killing of the victim (barring evidence of any unusual acts by the offender) is usually done in the quickest manner possible then the victim is often left in the area where they succumb. Minor movement by the offender to conceal the body are often taken. then the offender beats his escape

Many offenders return to the body recovery site prior to the discovery of the body, in this case I would not rule it out at all .

Other possibilities:
Could the offender just happen to be there ?
Could this have been unplanned ?
Could it be someone who knew she would be there, possibly someone she knew and was ok leaving the area with ?

Were left pondering these unless more information is ever released
Click to expand...

Very good points. good information, and keen observations by you as always.

I'll add this...I don't believe she left there voluntarily. From what I have read about her, she seemed to be a very responsible young lady. Knowing she was there to work that day and the people coming to the pond to swim, I don't think she would have abandoned her job-not even for a few minutes with someone she knew, much less a stranger.
 
TedMac said:
Very good points. good information, and keen observations by you as always.

I'll add this...I don't believe she left there voluntarily. From what I have read about her, she seemed to be a very responsible young lady. Knowing she was there to work that day and the people coming to the pond to swim, I don't think she would have abandoned her job-not even for a few minutes with someone she knew, much less a stranger.
Click to expand...

Nor do I, my feeling is he approached and presented a weapon or even possibly a badge, and forced her to walk out of there

but the "can you help me" approach is also possible
 
Kell1 said:
Im going to sound like a broken record here , but In most abduction/murders of children the killer is in the area of the abduction for legitimate reasons, he usually works, or lives, or traverses that area regularly. In this case however i feel this may be a case, of someone watching the area because he knows the objects of his desires are there (young females)

In most abduction/Murder cases of children the victim is chosen purely due to opportunity , the abduction is a spur of the moment unplanned event, however I feel different about this case.

I feel there was planning involved, I feel there was some sort of surveillance done prior to the event. However Molly individually may have not been an intended target the offender may have just been lying in wait for a lone female . If indeed however he man in the car seen my Magi Bish the previous day of her disappearance was involved that may change things a bit however.

Most Abduction murders of children initiate contact with the victim through deceptive means, or direct assault (grabbing) however the older the victim the higher the likelihood the use of deception, older kids are bigger, heavier, stronger, more likely to put up a fight.

Not much can be gleaned from the open first aid kit , that could reflect that she was approached and the offender asked for help, that could mean she injured herself and he approached to offer assistance, or that she was simply checking out the first aid kit and he approached her be it seen or unseen .

How did her get her out of Comins? did he get her to willfully leave through ruse? did he grab her and physically drag her out of there ?(unlikely) did he assault her render unconscious and carry her out? or did he threaten her produce a weapon or "something else"(badge? possibly a fake crisis "my friend needs help over here") to get her to leave with him ?

Was the mysterious man in the white car the offender?, was there a chance he returned the following day to see if the pretty blonde lifeguard would be there in the AM before anyone else?, I tend to feel he did but he knew he couldn't park in the parking area therefore he parked in the adjacent cemetery and staked out the area.

Sexual assault is almost always the governing factor in abduction/murders with murder secondary to conceal the act.

Victims clothes were apparently cut off , which we can surmise the offender at least had a knife, possibly the murder weapon (cause of death could not be determined however manual /ligature strangulation is the most common method as many of these events go unplanned) and what he possibly used to force her to leave.

The body recover site is often less than 200 feet from the murder site, and the offender is usually most familiar with the site where the victim is recovered.

The killing of the victim (barring evidence of any unusual acts by the offender) is usually done in the quickest manner possible then the victim is often left in the area where they succumb. Minor movement by the offender to conceal the body are often taken. then the offender beats his escape

Many offenders return to the body recovery site prior to the discovery of the body, in this case I would not rule it out at all .

Other possibilities:
Could the offender just happen to be there ?
Could this have been unplanned ?
Could it be someone who knew she would be there, possibly someone she knew and was ok leaving the area with ?

Were left pondering these unless more information is ever released
Click to expand...

All anyone can do is ponder in this case and speculate endlessly about what might have happened. I cannot think of one solid piece of factual/opinionated evidence to focus on in Molly Bish's case. Maybe there is some physical evidence?

The one thing I think comes closest to factual evidence for me is where her body was found on the side of Whiskey Hill in Palmer, MA. In my opinion, I think when people take the time to do something like take a body or even a living human up a large hill like that, there is probably a reason. The reason for me is because they are familiar with that area and have been there before.
So about the only way I can think of to solve Molly Bish's case(absent physical evidence) is guilt by association. I am sure the question, "Have you ever been to Whiskey Hill in Palmer, MA?" has been asked during the course of the investigation. Then hope the killer lies. Then be able to prove they have been to Whiskey Hill before June 2003.
 
somequestions said:
All anyone can do is ponder in this case and speculate endlessly about what might have happened. I cannot think of one solid piece of factual/opinionated evidence to focus on in Molly Bish's case. Maybe there is some physical evidence?

The one thing I think comes closest to factual evidence for me is where her body was found on the side of Whiskey Hill in Palmer, MA. In my opinion, I think when people take the time to do something like take a body or even a living human up a large hill like that, there is probably a reason. The reason for me is because they are familiar with that area and have been there before.
So about the only way I can think of to solve Molly Bish's case(absent physical evidence) is guilt by association. I am sure the question, "Have you ever been to Whiskey Hill in Palmer, MA?" has been asked during the course of the investigation. Then hope the killer lies. Then be able to prove they have been to Whiskey Hill before June 2003.
Click to expand...

I agree , They are usually most familiar with the murder/body recovery site

They won’t usually operate where they think they’ll get caught
 
Because it’s a wooded area he could simply approach it from the woods and watch unseen

I’d look for any reports of a suspicious individual in the woods particularly any reports of someone exposing themselves etc
 
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