MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #4

[k-mac]

This is similar to where I’m at. Not the hysterical behavior because I’m not sure why that’s questioned but for me I question how does one immediately go to him being dead in the snow and hit by a plow (vehicle) and for that to be actually the circumstances.

However, I stay on the fence because I’ve always said I’d wait on forensics and experts. It’s especially compelling that it’s confirmed the Fed investigation concluded he was not hit by a vehicle, which I’ve questioned anyway given the injuries and lack thereof to the lower body. And the “ furrows.” Also, aside from that, I just can’t reconcile all the lying! It’s obvious lying. Why? Why would you need to see your testimony before answering a question if you’re simply telling the truth?

Long way to go, so fence I sit for now.

I think Jen is very smart and taking care of herself.

Why should she uneasily answer a question knowing full well the defense is trying to nail her back to the wall and use anything possible out of context.

AJ is insisting on technicality answers.
She has every right to answer back in the technical reply he commands.

I would want to hold him to my words and see it too.
In a tragedy you remember the big stuff.....the wording...(i did i may...possibly....yes.....)
are very grey and inconsequencal to memory.
of course she is doing the right thing.
For everyone.
No misinterpretation of her words allowed.
Her lawyers have prepped her excellently to handle her own.
Clear concise and no fear or intimidation by the bullying.

 

[ch_13]

A crazy jealous person who picked up the tab for everyone’s dinner the first night, and then both apologized and offered to pay for the sister’s room after she realized she’d been mistaken about the situation.

I wonder why we never heard whether or not Karen actually paid for Etta's room. We heard a lot about cabanas and martinis and other irrelevancies from that trip, but not if the apology/payment offer was accepted.

 

[Weki]

I’m at the buttdial section of cross. Geez! Why can’t this man make a point and move on? He has to ask the same question 15 times. She stopped by at Lenk’s house the day after and forgot to tell LE about it. Okaaaaay, and? She stayed in the car for 45 mins and talked to Lenk’s wife with Roberts. Okaaaaay, and? These people are friends. Their friend had just died, possibly murdered. Them speaking about it is evidence of a murder cover up conspiracy?? They were probably speculating about what happened and saying KR probably hit him on purpose. I know I’d be wanting to discuss what happened over and over with everyone. This defense is such a monumental reach. I hope the jury is seeing through this.

JMO

 

[themonk]

I’m at the buttdial section of cross. Geez! Why can’t this man make a point and move on? He has to ask the same question 15 times. She stopped by at Lenk’s house the day after and forgot to tell LE about it. Okaaaaay, and? She stayed in the car for 45 mins and talked to Lenk’s wife with Roberts. Okaaaaay, and? These people are friends. Their friend had just died, possibly murdered. Them speaking about it is evidence of a murder cover up conspiracy?? They were probably speculating about what happened and saying KR probably hit him on purpose. I know I’d be wanting to discuss what happened over and over with everyone. This defense is such a monumental reach. I hope the jury is seeing through this.

JMO

Just for the record, do you buy the 'butt dial' excuse?

 

[Weki]

On Wednesday, she clarified that she overheard Roberts say something like, “John really loved Amy, and in my eyes, Karen was just a babysitter with benefits.”

Snipped by me.

Very interesting. The dynamics of the relationship all go to motive. CW doesn’t have to prove motive beyond a reasonable doubt but it’s important to present motive in this case. Aruba is important in that regard. A middle-aged woman, unlucky in love, possibly wants marriage, instead feels used, is drunk and angry about to be dumped soon, and tensions have been building. Yep! That tracks. JMO

 

[maamager]

McCabe also testified further about Kerry Roberts, who accompanied McCabe and Read on their search for O’Keefe on Jan. 29, 2022. McCabe previously said Roberts made a statement to investigators that “horrified” her. On Wednesday, she clarified that she overheard Roberts say something like, “John really loved Amy, and in my eyes, Karen was just a babysitter with benefits.”

bbm moo but i almost choked on my grape when i heard this during testimony. it just STRUCK me for whatever reason. my coworker said something to the effect: "even if she's guilty, that is ROUGH to hear."

agreed. yikes. just struck me as so unnecessarily mean.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Every single damn person who's been a witness in this case should seriously rethink their relationship with alcohol.

edit - Except for that one woman who was only drinking water that night.

Yes!!! And reviewing overall, it almost seems that anyone associated with or involved tangentially or otherwise with this case should probably join that club. Including those that didn’t make it to testify. MOO

 

[Wishbone]

Snipped by me.

Very interesting. The dynamics of the relationship all go to motive. CW doesn’t have to prove motive beyond a reasonable doubt but it’s important to present motive in this case. Aruba is important in that regard. A middle-aged woman, unlucky in love, possibly wants marriage, instead feels used, is drunk and angry about to be dumped soon, and tensions have been building. Yep! That tracks. JMO

See your point. But the statement Roberts made seemed to be her own opinion and it appeared she only associated with KR when it involved the children. In fact, if I remember correctly she said her husband spent time with JO but as far as both couples meeting up and such, that didn't happen. Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know about KR's previous love life except that she and JO had been in a relationship years before and they reconnected. She must have spent a lot of her time getting an education and then establishing a successful career. I don't know that she would have wanted marriage with all the health problems she has. MS, colitis, and I believe I heard a brain tumor as well. And as far as I know JO seemed to be the bachelor that everyone loved. I don't where I'm going with this, but there is no telling what kind of arrangement those two wanted except it seemed alcohol played a large part. They did seem to responsibly care for the children and spent much time interacting and loving them . But in the end who knows where either of them wanted their relationship to go.jmo

 

[k-mac]

I don't know that she would have wanted marriage with all the health problems she has. MS, colitis, and I believe I heard a brain tumor as well. And as far as I know JO seemed to be the bachelor that everyone loved. I don't where I'm going with this, but there is no telling what kind of arrangement those two wanted except it seemed alcohol played a large part. They did seem to responsibly care for the children and spent much time interacting and loving them . But in the end who knows where either of them wanted their relationship to go.jmo

respectfully snipped and bolded me

These things are all very serious health issues and as anyone who suffers from any of these conditions will tell you, just being well is hard to do.

Its a big contradiction the seriousness of all these debilitating conditions drinking alcohol on the reg. Thats a lot.

Its pretty fanciful at minimum and characterizing reckless at best. Which either way doesn't show her in a good light.

 

[jepop]

bbm moo but i almost choked on my grape when i heard this during testimony. it just STRUCK me for whatever reason. my coworker said something to the effect: "even if she's guilty, that is ROUGH to hear."

agreed. yikes. just struck me as so unnecessarily mean.

yea, I was like on a personal level 'what a b****' (female canine; no offence intended to female canines in general).

 

[ch_13]

bbm moo but i almost choked on my grape when i heard this during testimony. it just STRUCK me for whatever reason. my coworker said something to the effect: "even if she's guilty, that is ROUGH to hear."

agreed. yikes. just struck me as so unnecessarily mean.

And despite Jen's claim that she was horrified by that statement, the way she hissed it out I think she was just champing at the bit to say it in open court.

I don't know what she hoped to gain from it, I can't believe that she thought it made her testimony more credible or made the commonwealth's case stronger.

It was very "Real Housewife-esque", where you say stuff like that on-camera to cause drama and bring attention to yourself.

 

[jepop]

I agree with everything written here; I also think that her emotion about John's death was credible and probably moving to the jury, so the defense would rather not elicit more of that with their questioning.

Agree. I also think Kerry R's testimony did just fine, without further unpacking, in contradicting some of Jen McCabe's ie the 'I hit hims' lies (imo). And imo unfortunately for the P, I also think KerryR's testimony humanised KR and showed up JM as vindicative. I think at least partially the D probably decided on balance that it speaks for itself. Jmo

ETA her testimony showed that KR loved JO imo and was absolutely distraught. Imo it could easily be construed by jury as grief and horror not guilt. Especially given the lack of evidence so far that KR reversed her lexus into him deliberately at 24mp/h or whatever it is being contended. Moo

 

[GoBuckeyes]

If he had an accident and fell, I think concerned trained people would try to help and if necessary call for medical help instead of throwing him outside and saying he was never in the house? JMO

Maybe the accident occurred outside?? Slip and fall? (But that doesn't explain the marks on his arm.)

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

New to this case, but deleted Google search = not guilty. Am I right?

 

[jepop]

The odds of butt answering a butt dial are even more astronomical.

hahaha butt to butt?! Sounds unlikely

 

[jepop]

I am going to believe Julie's brother and friend more than these "insiders" as to where the white jeep w/plow owned by Higgins was.

Did Jen also say she say Karen's headlights pointed the opposite way of what everyone else said?

RBBM sorry, that was me who thought she said headlights to the left but I think I was probably wrong; she referred to headlights to the left from her vantage point at front door but was probably talking about Ryan Nagle and Co's lights not the lexus. It wasn't too clear and I think at the time Lally did a double take as well but he later made sure as to what direction she said lexus was facing. jmo

On another note at this point I'm definately leaning towards believing Ryan and the dude driving him re absence of white jeep with snow plow (writing off Julie Nagle's testimony she also didn't see jeep because too intoxicated). So am leaning towards JM and MM lying about seeing Jeep parked next to letter box, passenger side to curb, immediately to the left of drive (when facing house from street) ps may try to get a directional sense and start using north/south/east/west to make things easier. moo

 

[jepop]

This is similar to where I’m at. Not the hysterical behavior because I’m not sure why that’s questioned but for me I question how does one immediately go to him being dead in the snow and hit by a plow (vehicle) and for that to be actually the circumstances.

However, I stay on the fence because I’ve always said I’d wait on forensics and experts. It’s especially compelling that it’s confirmed the Fed investigation concluded he was not hit by a vehicle, which I’ve questioned anyway given the injuries and lack thereof to the lower body. And the “ furrows.” Also, aside from that, I just can’t reconcile all the lying! It’s obvious lying. Why? Why would you need to see your testimony before answering a question if you’re simply telling the truth?

Long way to go, so fence I sit for now.

The snow plow references interest me. I have some thoughts brewing but still mulling over atm.

 

[jepop]

So, it looks like we have the commonwealth's theory on intent now.

1. Based on what happened during the Aruba trip, Karen has a hair-trigger temper, especially when she suspects John is cheating.
2. On the night in question, Jen McCabe mentioned 'Bella's mom' when giving John directions.
3. This may have set Karen off and upset her to the point where she reversed into John.

We haven't yet heard from the kids so they may have additional info to add on point 1 and how much the couple argued in general. And of course Brian Higgins will be testifying to what, if any, relationship he had with Karen. But aside from them, we're pretty much at the end of the eyewitnesses. So, I don't think there's too much more to add.

In contrast to all that, the last time anyone saw the couple together they were acting "lovey-dovey". And of course we don't even know if Karen heard Jen mention the mother. For all we know John wasn't even on speaker.

And then we'll get the clashes over the speed and manner in which she allegedly hit him and what that says about her state of mind at the time.

Jmo it's risky. If the jury believes from the testimony (especially Kerry R's) that KR was really anxious or what not about JO possibly being at Bella's then logically she is not hiding guilty knowledge of hitting him. The jury might also take away from testimomy that KR was anxious and catastophising cos combo of JOs absence (not usual) and fears about another woman. Just saying don't think testimony necessarily goes very far towards proving motive as jealous rage. Is also set off by GENUINE imo evidence of KR's distress at the scene. Would she hurt him? If anything Aruba testimony suggests she's more likely to feel aggression towards a 'rival' not the man she loved. jmo

Good point; hard evidence of alleged reverse hit (accuracy and intention, no one heard or saw a thing it seems) and what that might suggest about KR's state of mind could put motive in question too. How could that happen if she is out of her mind jealous and highly pi**ed to boot. Jmo

 

[Weki]

Since the last time I’ve been on this thread the list of KR’s diseases has multiplied. On top of MS, now it’s being said she has colitis and possibly a brain tumor. Wow. All these diseases and being framed for murder by the police, the judge and the entire city of Canton…..she has to be the unluckiest woman alive! I’ll ask the same question I asked previously, is there any proof of her illnesses or is this just what the defense/KR/KR supporters have said?

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

.

Since the last time I’ve been on this thread the list of KR’s diseases has multiplied. On top of MS, now it’s being said she has colitis and possibly a brain tumor. Wow. All these diseases and being framed for murder by the police, the judge and the entire city of Canton…..she has to be the unluckiest woman alive! I’ll ask the same question I asked previously, is there any proof of her illnesses or is this just what the defense/KR/KR supporters have said?

JMO

I assume that she has them, because if she doesn’t, her affect is raising a lot of questions.