MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #4

[Charlot123]

McCabe also testified further about Kerry Roberts, who accompanied McCabe and Read on their search for O’Keefe on Jan. 29, 2022. McCabe previously said Roberts made a statement to investigators that “horrified” her. On Wednesday, she clarified that she overheard Roberts say something like, “John really loved Amy, and in my eyes, Karen was just a babysitter with benefits.”

‘You’re going to get a DUI,’ Kerry Roberts says she warned Karen Read before search

Roberts was one of four witnesses on the stand Wednesday in Read's murder trial.

www.boston.com

I miss a lot. Who was Amy?

 

[turaj]

New to this case, but deleted Google search = not guilty. Am I right?

there is far too much reasonable doubt for a guilty verdict...way too much.

 

[turaj]

Since the last time I’ve been on this thread the list of KR’s diseases has multiplied. On top of MS, now it’s being said she has colitis and possibly a brain tumor. Wow. All these diseases and being framed for murder by the police, the judge and the entire city of Canton…..she has to be the unluckiest woman alive! I’ll ask the same question I asked previously, is there any proof of her illnesses or is this just what the defense/KR/KR supporters have said?

JMO

i have heard about the MS and it has been mentioned during trial..where did the other conditions come from?

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Snipped by me.

Very interesting. The dynamics of the relationship all go to motive. CW doesn’t have to prove motive beyond a reasonable doubt but it’s important to present motive in this case. Aruba is important in that regard. A middle-aged woman, unlucky in love, possibly wants marriage, instead feels used, is drunk and angry about to be dumped soon, and tensions have been building. Yep! That tracks. JMO

How are you inferring she was about to be dumped soon? Testimony was that everything seemed great the night this accident happened. We ae using some third party female's opinion to determine JOK was going to dump her? That's quite a reach. JMO

 

[Weki]

Reasonable doubt is a doubt based on reason not speculation. ‘What if’ is not reasonable doubt. Also, it’s not ‘beyond a shadow of a doubt.’ Neither is it, ‘must be proven with 100% certainty.’

Speculation about a murder coverup by the police and about 8 people is not a doubt based on reason. Interpreting everything these people did or didn’t do in a way to fit a conspiracy theory is just fantastical. There is no evidence that John O’Keefe entered that house and that he got beat up once there and was dragged outside and left to die. If these conjectures and wild accusations were enough to create reasonable doubt, no one would ever get convicted because you could come up with a speculative and fabricated theory for every defendant on trial.

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

there is far too much reasonable doubt for a guilty verdict...way too much.

I don’t think KR is not guilty. Maybe a hung jury would be better.

And - someone has to answer for witnesses intimidation, if even half of what JMc said was right.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

I don’t think KR is not guilty. Maybe a hung jury would be better.

And - someone has to answer for witnesses intimidation, if even half of what JMc said was right.

She's not on trial for witness intimidation. Is the implication that she should be convicted of murder because a blogger encouraged people to harass someone else?

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Reasonable doubt is a doubt based on reason not speculation. Also it’s not beyond a shadow of a doubt. It’s not —- must be proven with 100% certainty.

Speculation about a murder coverup by the police and about 8 people is not a doubt based on reason. Interpreting everything these people did or didn’t do in a way to fit a conspiracy theory is just fantastical. There is no evidence that John O’Keefe entered that house and that he got beat up once there and was dragged outside and left to die. If these conjectures and wild accusations were enough to create reasonable doubt, no one would ever get convicted because you could come up with a speculative and fabricated theory for every defendant on trial.

JMO

You know how they can put an end to any speculation? Actually present some evidence.

 

[turaj]

.


I assume that she has them, because if she doesn’t, her affect is raising a lot of questions

I don’t think KR is not guilty. Maybe a hung jury would be better.

And - someone has to answer for witnesses intimidation, if even half of what JMc said was right.

At the end of this trial if CW has not come up with any more convincing evidence of KR's guilt and there is a hung jury (a real possibility) then CW. going to have to think long and hard before doing this all over again expecting different results.

 

[Soulmagent]

Since the last time I’ve been on this thread the list of KR’s diseases has multiplied. On top of MS, now it’s being said she has colitis and possibly a brain tumor. Wow. All these diseases and being framed for murder by the police, the judge and the entire city of Canton…..she has to be the unluckiest woman alive! I’ll ask the same question I asked previously, is there any proof of her illnesses or is this just what the defense/KR/KR supporters have said?

JMO

i KNOW !
Unfortunately I also know autoimmune issues really do act this way. MS . The more you talk about your health issues the worse ya sounds. People just say your crazy. Not saying she is not ,just saying .

 

[DeDee]

It makes one wonder why he didn’t end the relationship when they returned home.

Do we know that John did not try to break it off but she refused? It seems he possessed a good heart so he was trying to let her down easy but it wasn't working. Many SOs die when they've trying to get away from their abuser. Suzanne Morphew is one prime example. moo

APR 22, 2024 From the niece and nephew, so far, we've learned this:
"They both described a recent argument, within two weeks of O’Keefe’s death, where he had asked [Ms. Read] to leave his house, but she refused to leave," said the statement. "O’Keefe’s niece described a second argument within a week of his death where she heard O’Keefe tell [Ms. Read] that he wanted to end the relationship, that it had run its course, that it was not healthy, and that they argued too often. [Ms. Read] did not want the relationship to end and again refused to leave the house."

 

[turaj]

She's not on trial for witness intimidation. Is the implication that she should be convicted of murder because a blogger encouraged people to harass someone else?

that testimony should never have been allowed..judge may regret letting that in...what has happened in the community is not KR's fault...it happened due to some deep seeded feelings in Canton about police behavior..and an investigation that was so flawed .

 

[Weki]

Absolutely - ending a relationship is a major triggering event for people and many DV cases turn into homicide at that point. We’ve seen this time and time again. The perpetrators are predominantly men but women do it too. Jodi Arias is an obvious and notorious example. Arias was also manipulative/controlling and refused to accept the relationship wasn’t working and he wanted to move on. She wasn’t physically abusive until she slaughtered and shot Travis Alexander.

JMO

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Do we know that John did not try to break it off but she refused? It seems he possessed a good heart so he was trying to let her down easy but it wasn't working. Many SOs die when they've trying to get away from their abuser. Suzanne Morphew is one prime example. moo

APR 22, 2024 From the niece and nephew, so far, we've learned this:
"They both described a recent argument, within two weeks of O’Keefe’s death, where he had asked [Ms. Read] to leave his house, but she refused to leave," said the statement. "O’Keefe’s niece described a second argument within a week of his death where she heard O’Keefe tell [Ms. Read] that he wanted to end the relationship, that it had run its course, that it was not healthy, and that they argued too often. [Ms. Read] did not want the relationship to end and again refused to leave the house."

Where was there testimony that there was any abuse? Any police reports? Any instances of the police having to intervene?

 

[Weki]

She's not on trial for witness intimidation. Is the implication that she should be convicted of murder because a blogger encouraged people to harass someone else?

The jury has to judge the credibility of witnesses. Credibility of witnesses is crucial in all cases but esp in this case where many witnesses are being accused by the defense of conspiring to cover up a murder and frame KR. If the witnesses have been continually harassed by KR supporters leading up to their testimony, they may be nervous, defensive or even hostile towards the defense when on the stand. IOW, their demeanor will or could be impacted. A jury could read that as ‘oh they have something to hide.’ The state has the right to put forth evidence to explain these witnesses’ demeanor. A defendant doesn’t get to influence/intimidate witnesses outside of court then come to trial and argue ‘see they were so hostile and defensive they’re hiding something.’

JMO

 

[DeDee]

Where was there testimony that there was any abuse? Any police reports? Any instances of the police having to intervene?

There are many ways that people will be abusive in relationships. Verbal abuse is one of them. Emotional abuse is another. A cycle of abuse kills a person slowly whereas a bullet is quicker much like a hit and run would be quicker.

We heard testimony that Karen Read screamed "F you!" across the lobby in Aruba. Surely John was humiliated by her slinging abusive language at his Godchild's aunt.

MOO

 

[Charlot123]

How are you inferring she was about to be dumped soon? Testimony was that everything seemed great the night this accident happened. We ae using some third party female's opinion to determine JOK was going to dump her? That's quite a reach. JMO

I don’t know about her relationship with JO. Her reaction to the situation in Aruba - first use profanity towards an unknown woman, then try to pay off - tells a lot about her personality, IMO. First, unprovoked anger, then paying exorbitant amount to undo the damage. The Sullivans were classy, “a mere sorry would do”. JMO.

 

[Weki]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed> No evidence of physical abuse but things were spiraling out of control in his life when he committed the murders. Jodi was losing control of Travis. I would argue there are many indications KR was losing control of John. He was ready to move on. Loss of control is a big triggering factor in this type of crime.

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

She's not on trial for witness intimidation. Is the implication that she should be convicted of murder because a blogger encouraged people to harass someone else?

So the blogger didn’t materialize out of thin air. Someone found him, fed him the information, maybe paid him. KR, or her lawyers. One of two. I think following the money would be interesting, but hope that the CW will take care of it, it is their case and their citizens, after all.

 

[KMouse]

Reasonable doubt is a doubt based on reason not speculation. ‘What if’ is not reasonable doubt. Also, it’s not ‘beyond a shadow of a doubt.’ Neither is it, ‘must be proven with 100% certainty.’

Speculation about a murder coverup by the police and about 8 people is not a doubt based on reason. Interpreting everything these people did or didn’t do in a way to fit a conspiracy theory is just fantastical. There is no evidence that John O’Keefe entered that house and that he got beat up once there and was dragged outside and left to die. If these conjectures and wild accusations were enough to create reasonable doubt, no one would ever get convicted because you could come up with a speculative and fabricated theory for every defendant on trial.

JMO

I am really bothered by how this case has turned into a circus fueled by speculation and wild accusations. I do not know why people have latched themselves onto people like TB (he doesn't seem like an upstanding citizen) and allow people like him to drive the narrative. It's like people WANT to believe that there is a giant conspiracy because it makes for good TV. There's some shoddy police work that happened but that doesn't mean it's a massive conspiracy. There's been shoddy police work in a lot of cases unfortunately. I'll get flamed for this but imagine your friend is killed and internet sleuths & social media accuse you of murder and harass you non stop. The most these people are guilty of IMO is driving home from the bar after drinking.
Conspiracy theories sells social media hits.