MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #4

[Elliot_Alderson]

d

There are many ways that people will be abusive in relationships. Verbal abuse is one of them. Emotional abuse is another. A cycle of abuse kills a person slowly whereas a bullet is quicker much like a hit and run would be quicker.

We heard testimony that Karen Read screamed "F you!" across the lobby in Aruba. Surely John was humiliated by her slinging abusive language at his Godchild's aunt.

MOO

That was one instance. Nothing was testified to about what had happened between her and JOK prior to her yelling F you at the lady. I've yelled F you at plenty of people and it's never from a place of abuse or a part of an abusive relationship. That is quite a leap being made from one phrase but we'll just agree to disagree.

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

You’re right Alex Murdaugh is another good example. No evidence of physical abuse but things were spiraling out of control in his life when he committed the murders. Jodi was losing control of Travis. I would argue there are many indications KR was losing control of John. He was ready to move on. Loss of control is a big triggering factor in this type of crime.

JMO

I think it is a different situation. I don’t remember the case of Jodi Arias in details, but with the rest, money was a significant factor. Not here - KR did not get anything out of her situation, financially. She comes across as a person with severe temper issues, be it her fault or misfortune or both, but it would seem that she did not use JO financially, in any way. Not even close.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

So the blogger didn’t materialize out of thin air. Someone found him, fed him the information, maybe paid him. KR, or her lawyers. One of two. I think following the money would be interesting, but hope that the CW will take care of it, it is their case and their citizens, after all.

And TB has been charged and is awaiting trial, correct?

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

You’re right Alex Murdaugh is another good example. No evidence of physical abuse but things were spiraling out of control in his life when he committed the murders. Jodi was losing control of Travis. I would argue there are many indications KR was losing control of John. He was ready to move on. Loss of control is a big triggering factor in this type of crime.

JMO

How do you know he was ready to move on? Testimony that night is that KR and John were in good spirits and appeared very much in love. Must be the hidden insidious nature of their relationship that only you are privy to. There's been ZERO evidence of abuse other than she yelled the F word at a lady one time she thought was putting moves on her partner. MOO

 

[nodamselindistress]

I don’t know about her relationship with JO. Her reaction to the situation in Aruba - first use profanity towards an unknown woman, then try to pay off - tells a lot about her personality, IMO. First, unprovoked anger, then paying exorbitant amount to undo the damage. The Sullivans were classy, “a mere sorry would do”. JMO.

This behavior bothers me, too. It seems like KR threw money around to get people to like her (buying dinner for everyone the first night in Aruba) and then to make up for jumping to conclusions that JO was kissing someone in the lobby.

I can excuse some of her behavior but when I start seeing a pattern it becomes problematic.

On KR's behalf, however, I see that she was in a position of constantly being around his friends in Canton, where he also had a history of prior girlfriends that everyone seemed to know about, and then again in Aruba with JO's friends/godchild. Marietta Sullivan described JO as a life of the party type, going from one cabana to the next, talking to everyone. I stand by my earlier opinion that he and KR were not well suited for each other.

 

[themonk]

It's interesting to see some attempts to connect KR's behavior in Aruba with the death of JOK while dismissing or ignoring Jennifer McCabe's actions the night/morning in question.

I asked before but I will ask again. Who deletes a 911 call?

Oh, wait I know the answer. Jennifer McCabe

 

[shotgun09]

Setting aside all the drama that this poor jury has to deal with, the fact that the sloppy, one-sided and questionable investigation led by a highly conflicted Troopah has been shown in court. Trooper Proctor, or Proctor Trooper , was working on THE MOTIVE ( Sullivan sistahs) on Feb 8th, 2022 !! What on earth? The guy had not even KNOWN who all was at the home of the party at Fairview by then, because he was so conflicted and led by the nose to look the other way.

That is what I see. Hopefully the jury does. And I believe that is what the citizens of Canton see as well. Whether they march with TB or not, there is surely something brewing in Canton MA. IMO, the defense has successfully shown conflict and coercion and selective targeting/charging. If I was a citizen there, I would be very alarmed.


Justice for John O'Keefe ! No matter how we get there.

 

[Charlot123]

And TB has been charged and is awaiting trial, correct?

Let us see how it ends. A blogger is an aspiring journalist, essentially. Looking for the freshest scoop. Organizing pickets and protest is another thing - who did it, where the money came from, who was involved?

 

[Dre]

I’ve been following this case only since trial day 1- a coverup is indeed fantastical but damn if it isn’t unfolding right before our eyes!
I’ve always been open to KR being culpable, but all I’m seeing is LOTS of conflict within the prosecution itself.

Fabrications, evasion, sketchy texts, deletions, way too many butt dials…
None of that would have been done because of harassment, but rather is the reason why there has been harassment. (Not condoning the disgusting actions of idiots, just making a point since it’s being discussed so much)

Not to mention the FBI still investigating, which that fact alone shows there’s enough substance there to render some doubt.

I’ll wait patiently for more concrete evidence against KR but I’m certainly not betting on it at this point, what a train wreck of a trial so far. SMH

Moo

 

[thebedbug]

I am really bothered by how this case has turned into a circus fueled by speculation and wild accusations. I do not know why people have latched themselves onto people like TB (he doesn't seem like an upstanding citizen) and allow people like him to drive the narrative. It's like people WANT to believe that there is a giant conspiracy because it makes for good TV. There's some shoddy police work that happened but that doesn't mean it's a massive conspiracy. There's been shoddy police work in a lot of cases unfortunately. I'll get flamed for this but imagine your friend is killed and internet sleuths & social media accuse you of murder and harass you non stop. The most these people are guilty of IMO is driving home from the bar after drinking.
Conspiracy theories sells social media hits.

It's a really good question. I think the thrill of feeling like they're part of a group... an actual part of the story... uncovering a conspiracy is attractive to many. To that end, the pieces as they have been put out there, are enticing! You've got the cliche of a small insular New England town (even if that isn't really accurate). You've got local cops bumbling around a bit. You've got implications of a cover-up. You've got an interesting femme-fatale-esque main character.

Let's admit it... the story you can create from those points is FAR more interesting than "angry girlfriend runs over boyfriend in a moment of late-night alcohol-assisted anger."

 

[themonk]

'angry girlfriend did not run over boyfriend in a moment of late-night alcohol-assisted anger'
- the actual experts

 

[Weki]

This behavior bothers me, too. It seems like KR threw money around to get people to like her (buying dinner for everyone the first night in Aruba) and then to make up for jumping to conclusions that JO was kissing someone in the lobby.

I can excuse some of her behavior but when I start seeing a pattern it becomes problematic.

On KR's behalf, however, I see that she was in a position of constantly being around his friends in Canton, where he also had a history of prior girlfriends that everyone seemed to know about, and then again in Aruba with JO's friends/godchild. Marietta Sullivan described JO as a life of the party type, going from one cabana to the next, talking to everyone. I stand by my earlier opinion that he and KR were not well suited for each other.

A lot of parallels with Jodi Arias. People may dismiss these comparisons but for avid trial watchers and those of us who are interested in criminal psychology, you eventually see the same patterns emerge in all these trials. The names and jurisdictions are different but the motives and personalities of the perpetrators are quite typical. Defense has done a good job of distracting people from a very tried and true pattern of intimate relationship violence.

JMO

 

[Dre]

A lot of parallels with Jodi Arias. People may dismiss these comparisons but for avid trial watchers and those of us who are interested in criminal psychology, you eventually see the same patterns emerge in all these trials. The names and jurisdictions are different but the motives and personalities of the perpetrators are quite typical. Defense has done a good job of distracting people from a very tried and true pattern of intimate relationship violence.

JMO

To liken this case to Jodi Arias is the most extreme comment I’ve read on this thread to date. Absolutely wild.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

To liken this case to Jodi Arias is the most extreme comment I’ve read on this thread to date. Absolutely wild.

Agreed. Where are all the parallels between this and Jodi Arias? A good majority of Travis' friends said he wanted to end the relationship. Is that the parallel here? No wait, it can't be that, because nobody has testified to that. Must just be that they are both females.

 

[Weki]

It's a really good question. I think the thrill of feeling like they're part of a group... an actual part of the story... uncovering a conspiracy is attractive to many. To that end, the pieces as they have been put out there, are enticing! You've got the cliche of a small insular New England town (even if that isn't really accurate). You've got local cops bumbling around a bit. You've got implications of a cover-up. You've got an interesting femme-fatale-esque main character.

Let's admit it... the story you can create from those points is FAR more interesting than "angry girlfriend runs over boyfriend in a moment of late-night alcohol-assisted anger."

I agree with this and would just add that there’s a disturbing pattern of detachment from reality going on here. As people spend more & more time online, I think it becomes easier to forget about the human cost involved in their actions. This is not a TV show. These people are not actors. They live in the community, they have kids, jobs, friends. They are also victims in that they’ve been traumatized by John’s death and to harass and intimidate them outside of court and then badger them on the stand as though they were beneath contempt is just reprehensible. I’ve seen actual inmates be treated better on the stand.

JMO

 

[2manyhorses]

I'm curious if the folks who cannot believe so many friends/family/fellow police officers could be involved in collusion/cover up/conspiracy as is alleged in this trial, believe that there was collusion/cover up/conspiracy in the Alex Murdaugh case. I believe throughout his life there were many more folks even less close to Alex who were involved in years of cover up and collusion. Why is it more believable that a man from a powerful family in a medium pond would be able to keep so many co-conspirators quiet and on board for such an extended period of time, yet a smaller group of people, both friends and family and police brothers, would never be able to collude to pull off a conspiracy/cover up over one incident. In both cases the local law enforcement appeared to go along with "the plan". It wasn't until the big guys who were out of the local good boy club came in that things appeared to fall apart.

So out of curiosity, what makes one conspiracy/collusion/cover up/ believable and another not?

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

It's a really good question. I think the thrill of feeling like they're part of a group... an actual part of the story... uncovering a conspiracy is attractive to many. To that end, the pieces as they have been put out there, are enticing! You've got the cliche of a small insular New England town (even if that isn't really accurate). You've got local cops bumbling around a bit. You've got implications of a cover-up. You've got an interesting femme-fatale-esque main character.

Let's admit it... the story you can create from those points is FAR more interesting than "angry girlfriend runs over boyfriend in a moment of late-night alcohol-assisted anger."

RBBM -- people don't believe that because they haven't been shown any evidence of that. Almost 3 weeks in. MOO

 

[nodamselindistress]

To liken this case to Jodi Arias is the most extreme comment I’ve read on this thread to date. Absolutely wild.

Not going there, not at all. We all see things from our own perspectives which have evolved over our own life experiences, and while I am not at all ready to condemn KR I also cannot ignore some problematic behavior that I see. That does not mean I am ignoring all the problematic behavior I see from the Canton clique, either.

The experts will help me make up my mind, I am sure!

 

[themonk]

I agree with this and would just add that there’s a disturbing pattern of detachment from reality going on here. As people spend more & more time online, I think it becomes easier to forget about the human cost involved in their actions. This is not a TV show. These people are not actors. They live in the community, they have kids, jobs, friends. They are also victims in that they’ve been traumatized by John’s death and to harass and intimidate them outside of court and then badger them on the stand as though they were beneath contempt is just reprehensible. I’ve seen actual inmates be treated better on the stand.

JMO

yes, yes indeed
RBBM

 

[shotgun09]

MOO

By the fact that Judge Bev allowed all the testimony of the victims of harassment ( Caitlyn and Jen McCabe ) which is currently in court awaiting trial, in THIS TRIAL, she allowed very prejudicial and harmful statements to come in regarding Karen Read. This should never have been allowed in. Her little speeches and admonishments and stipulations aside, the Bell has been rung. The poor jury heard it all. They saw it all. The tears, the scowls, the anger, the accusations all towards the defense and specifically Karen Read.
If KR somehow through this mess of a trial gets convicted, it will be turned over on appeal.

Think about this also. Judge Bev insisted on keeping the FBI investigation and current State IA investigation a secret. The poor jury has been left to their own imagination and inference on any of that business. But yet, This was allowed? Highly prejudicial.

MOO