MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #4

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Weki said:
You’re right Alex Murdaugh is another good example. No evidence of physical abuse but things were spiraling out of control in his life when he committed the murders. Jodi was losing control of Travis. I would argue there are many indications KR was losing control of John. He was ready to move on. Loss of control is a big triggering factor in this type of crime.
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Weki said:
I was called for jury duty a year ago and they called us all separately to do the voir dire and they put me on the stand. It was a nerve wrecking experience being up there. I couldn’t remember the answers to a couple basic questions. I can’t EVEN IMAGINE what it’s like for these witnesses under these circumstances.
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They seem on point. More to come though and no, I'd fall apart like a fool in a few minutes.
 
Dre said:
Excellent theory.
I keep finding myself wondering about what John knew about the texting going on between BH and KR. Did I hear that BH texted her that day?

Am I correct in thinking that the McCabe’s are possibly fabricating something against BH with his Jeep/plow being allegedly spotted parked on the street?
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It sounds like BH and KR had some sort of flirtation going on. Not to be superficial, but I can't imagine her finding him attractive, but she wouldn't be the first person to try to make their SO a bit jealous, especially if they thought that SO was not fully faithful themselves. So it remains to seen if this is just a random bit of info or if it's somehow connected. Maybe we'll learn more tomorrow when BH takes the stand.

And yes, Higgins did text Karen that night. I don't think she responded, and they did not speak at the Waterfall.

Not sure what the McCabes are trying to do here. Some think its just a way of negating the testimony of the people in the Nagle vehicle. How could they see Karen alone in the car with the dome light on if Higgins' Jeep was blocking their view? Others think they're trying to set Higgins up as an alternative suspect to keep attention off of themselves if Read is acquitted.
 
nodamselindistress said:
I do not believe that JO was "set up" and that an assault was pre-planned, not at all. They had no way of knowing ahead of time that KR would stay in the car and not go to the house with JO. What would have been the motive anyway?

I believe what happened was that JO was approaching the house as CA was leaving the house and words were exchanged and CA started throwing punches. In his inebriated state, JO fell and hit his head on the steps or some other structure, knocking him unconscious. He dropped his phone during the fight. CA panicked, his ride came, he hopped in AM's car and off they went. He or she somehow got in touch with their parents and explained what happened, and good 'ol mom JM came to the rescue.

They had seen where KR was parked along the street waiting for JO and that is where they decided to dump his body after they found him unconscious and thought he was dead. Then JM called his phone to find it and put it under him.

That is the best I can come up with right now considering the evidence presented thus far.
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It's a thought!
 
Weki said:
You’re right Alex Murdaugh is another good example. No evidence of physical abuse but things were spiraling out of control in his life when he committed the murders. Jodi was losing control of Travis. I would argue there are many indications KR was losing control of John. He was ready to move on. Loss of control is a big triggering factor in this type of crime.

JMO
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I can't speak about Jodi Arias, as I never followed that trial.

However, Murdaugh had a long history of being physical with others, going back to his college days. He's a big guy who loves throwing punches and getting into scraps. The article below describes how he started a brawl at a strip club way back in 1993. And there are reports from just this week that he was in another fight in jail.

As far as we know he never hit his wife or sons. But of course two of his three family members are now dead, so they can't tell us what he was really like.

www.fitsnews.com

Alex Murdaugh Charged In 1993 Strip Club Brawl On Hilton Head Island

Latest in the Murdaugh Murders: Police report from 1993 shows Alex Murdaugh got driven home after instigating strip club brawl on Hilton Head.
www.fitsnews.com www.fitsnews.com
 
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HarmonyE. said:
It sounds like BH and KR had some sort of flirtation going on. Not to be superficial, but I can't imagine her finding him attractive, but she wouldn't be the first person to try to make their SO a bit jealous, especially if they thought that SO was not fully faithful themselves. So it remains to seen if this is just a random bit of info or if it's somehow connected. Maybe we'll learn more tomorrow when BH takes the stand.

And yes, Higgins did text Karen that night. I don't think she responded, and they did not speak at the Waterfall.

Not sure what the McCabes are trying to do here. Some think its just a way of negating the testimony of the people in the Nagle vehicle. How could they see Karen alone in the car with the dome light on if Higgins' Jeep was blocking their view? Others think they're trying to set Higgins up as an alternative suspect to keep attention off of themselves if Read is acquitted.
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I choose the alternative re setting up Higgins to take the fall. They now know what the FBI released as far as Higgins info....and IMO it must not prove well for the McCabes and Alberts.

See Also: Re-homing dog, Re-homing phone, Re-homing home, and also RE-tiring from job all while you and your family are now under an intense spotlight. Coincidence? I think not.

MOO
 
shotgun09 said:
I choose the alternative re setting up Higgins to take the fall. They now know what the FBI released as far as Higgins info....and IMO it must not prove well for the McCabes and Alberts.
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I'm not sure what anyone knows about the FBI's investigation, but we do know Higgins approached the Feds with a proffer. For those not familiar with the term, here's a legal definition:

A proffer agreement is a written contract between a federal prosecutor and a defendant or someone under a criminal investigation. The person will agree to give the prosecutor helpful information, and their statements will not be used against them later in a criminal proceeding.

What we don't know is whether the Feds took him up on his offer to provide helpful information in exchange for not having his statements used against him. A hint may be that his attorney is on record saying Higgins is not a target of the FBI. But we really have no idea.
 
shotgun09 said:
I choose the alternative re setting up Higgins to take the fall. They now know what the FBI released as far as Higgins info....and IMO it must not prove well for the McCabes and Alberts.

See Also: Re-homing dog, Re-homing phone, Re-homing home, and also RE-tiring from job all while you and your family are now under an intense spotlight. Coincidence? I think not.

MOO
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I'm all about can't wait to see Higgins on the stand and questions and answers, due to most likely being there, knowing about JO and some lame answer why he went to 'the office' at that time. He shouldn't say to work as that sounds def not truthful. He could of said, I wanted to wait till the snow stopped or I needed a bit of nap as I have a drive to get home. Prob not say sober up and FREAK out with ALBERT about what happened and what to do next and don't be dragging me into it or YOU SURE YOU GOT MY BACK? Lay down with dogs and get up with fleas. OH, but I do not remember what the picking up with his friend brother said about seeing a jeep or not or what time. I feel I remember that the brother/friend said they saw the female as they passed BY her leaving, sitting with her hands on the steering wheel and thought she was alone.
 
Weki said:
I was called for jury duty a year ago and they called us all separately to do the voir dire and they put me on the stand. It was a nerve wrecking experience being up there. I couldn’t remember the answers to a couple basic questions. I can’t EVEN IMAGINE what it’s like for these witnesses under these circumstances.
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Having been a witness in an attempted murder case I can say I felt no anxiety whatsoever testifying because I was telling the truth of what I personally observed and the impression it had on me. Different strokes for different folks. JMOO
 
keek said:
I'm all about can't wait to see Higgins on the stand and questions and answers, due to most likely being there, knowing about JO and some lame answer why he went to 'the office' at that time. He shouldn't say to work as that sounds def not truthful. He could of said, I wanted to wait till the snow stopped or I needed a bit of nap as I have a drive to get home. Prob not say sober up and FREAK out with ALBERT about what happened and what to do next and don't be dragging me into it or YOU SURE YOU GOT MY BACK? Lay down with dogs and get up with fleas. OH, but I do not remember what the picking up with his friend brother said about seeing a jeep or not or what time. I feel I remember that the brother/friend said they saw the female as they passed BY her leaving, sitting with her hands on the steering wheel and thought she was alone.
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Nagles and Co saw no jeep according to their testimony and then hammered home in the cross examinations. moo

eta time was around 12.30am. not clear on preciseness as this is all mixed up with the screen shots of text messages between Nagle bros and sis which JM apparently asked for and then, quelle surprise, were accidently deleted from JM's phone at some point (possibly by her butt though I don't recall testimony directly speaking to that in this instance). Or ICBW and mixing up with other witnesses? It's all a bit muddled atm.
 
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Universecalling said:
I think you should re read my post.
The reason why I say this is because of your replay regarding the dog.
Considering they were hiding Chloe (and Colin), no investigation was done w the dog.
I asked a hypothetical question if the reverse happened, you don’t think Chloe wouldn’t have been taken into quarantine to swab her claws and jaw?
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So I've caught up on testimony and have some thoughts:

- Karen got in an argument with John in Aruba.
Therefore, Karen suddenly becomes murderous a month later?

Is this the only "evidence" that was shown in court these last two days of testimony?

Other thoughts:
- Hearsay attributes the deceased as describing Karen as "crazy" (THERE'S THAT WORD AGAIN). Why was hearsay allowed in the first place?
- Karen was very emotional upon finding John's body and the other two women... not so much.
- Did anybody say "officer down" or investigate John's death as intensively as they would fellow officers? WHY NOT??
- Jen McCabe's denial of answering calls, deleting calls, knowledge of where Allie was looked really bad.
- Jen McCabe's general recalcitrance on the stand and rolling her eyes looked really bad. I was looking forward to her testimony because she could have flipped my opinion as to KR's motive and guilt. Instead she confirmed to me the opposite.

Eagerly awaiting evidence...

edit: Forgot Jen McCabe also lying about the google search.
edit 2: Forgot Jen McCabe contacting LE after the incident because she suddenly remembered KR saying "I did it".
 
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Wishbone said:
Having been a witness in an attempted murder case I can say I felt no anxiety whatsoever testifying because I was telling the truth of what I personally observed and the impression it had on me. Different strokes for different folks. JMOO
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You're right in this, when I think of it. I rep'd myself against a weasel employer and I felt empowered just telling what had happened and let the chips fall where they may. I won. I had no axe to grind attitude in my manner either. OMG though being a witness for your own upset witnessing this.
 
Dre said:
Exactly why I’m wondering what explanation they have in store… the wound to the back of the head caused by falling into the plow blade or something?
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yes, I want to refrain re details of images and scenarios slowly emerging because still dynamic but snow plow refs in Kerry R's testimony yesterday also interest me for this reason. I wonder re any possible defense strategy relating to that testimony and the emphasis elicited via Nagles that snow plow was not where the McCabes ONLY NOW (not in prior GJ testimony and statements) claim it was. And Infact Nagles and driver claimed they saw no jeep at all. And prior to this trial Mc Cabes never mentioned it. moo
 
keek said:
Oh, is it only JMC that said the jeep was there at all? Do people besides her say Higgins was there at a certain time frame and or jeep.. ONLY if you remember from top of head, I just forget pages and pages later.
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both Jen and Matt McCabe said they saw the jeep with the plow in front, and that BH was there. I can’t recall now if others said BH was at the party, but they sure didn’t see his jeep.


Does anyone know if the other witnesses named BH as being at the party? I would rewatch but Lally’s style does not permit me to do so in a timely manner lol
 
@TedDanielnews

Hola X’ers. Not complaining about having a day to reset and catch up. But looking forward to the testimony of Brian Higgins when #KarenRead trial resumes. Over the last year, I have spoken by phone or in person with a number of key players in this case but not him. 30k flyover of some of the testimony Wednesday.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1793668837398679832
 
Karen Read's defense teams says "fireworks" should be expected when Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives special agent Brian Higgins takes the stand.


Defense says to expect ‘fireworks' when ATF agent Brian Higgins testifies in Karen Read trial

Updated 5 hours ago​


Who is Brian Higgins?​

Higgins is a friend of Albert and was present at the party at Albert's home on Fairview Road hours before O'Keefe was found dead outside, according to court filings and witness testimony. He had previously exchanged flirtatious text messages with Read, according to court filings from the prosecution.

He is one of three men that Read's defense team has said had motive, opportunity and means to attack O'Keefe that night.

Prosecutors have said the defense's statements about Higgins lack evidence and make for a "fanciful" story.
 
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