MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #4

[HarmonyE.]

any chance that politically, for the judge, it would be best if a jury of her peers acquits KR so the whole damn thing is just out of her hands?

As judges are appointed in Massachusetts and not elected, she has no worries about being voted out of office. She can stay until she turns 70.

It's different for DA Morrissey. His next election is in 2026 and I'll be surprised if he runs again. I can't see him winning another election if he does.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I don't know if the judge is corrupt per se, but I think she's a townie through and through and doesn't like having these carpetbagger defense lawyers show up in her cozy little world. She's likely a player in local politics, knows all the important people in Norfolk County and may have further political ambitions.

See my post above about judges and politics. I seriously doubt Bev has any other ambitions beyond staying on the bench until she's 70. I'm going to guess she's in her early 60s now. She hasn't been involved in politics and spent her entire pre-judgeship career as a public defender. Believe it or not.

She's not a Canton townie; she's a Quincy native. Quincy is large city that borders Boston to the south. But I 100% agree she has nothing but contempt for the California lawyers, Little and Jackson. Yannetti, the local Boston attorney, gets way more respect. He's probably come before her in the past, even though he's mostly a Suffolk County lawyer.

 

[turaj]

As judges are appointed in Massachusetts and not elected, she has no worries about being voted out of office. She can stay until she turns 70.

It's different for DA Morrissey. His next election is in 2026 and I'll be surprised if he runs again. I can't see him winning another election if he does.

I think most watching this CW case so far are trying to figure how the Grand Jury indicted KR on second degree murder or even manslaughter with evidence as presented to this point. Also I think this case should have been tightened up to a limit of 3-4 weeks not this disjointed never ending parade of witnesses.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I think most watching this CW case so far are trying to figure how the Grand Jury indicted KR on second degree murder or even manslaughter with evidence as presented to this point. Also I think this case should have been tightened up to a limit of 3-4 weeks not this disjointed never ending parade of witnesses.

Beyond the fact that it's very easy to get a Grand Jury to indict anywhere, (ham sandwich, anyone?) pretty much all of the info the defense is putting up on cross now had not yet been developed when the indictments came down. In fact, Yannetti originally said this was an unfortunate accident and not second degree murder when she was up-charged with second degree in 2022.

What happened? Really important question. I think it was a combination of things. First, there had been local chatter before John's funeral that this was no car accident. I heard it very early on. But I think more importantly, the defense got their hands on those autopsy photos and everything changed. This really was no car accident from that point forward.

 

[jepop]

I've seen a lot of cases where the defendant claims that their electronic devices are somehow wrong: GPS, texts, emails, phone calls, browser searches, etc.

I don't think I've ever seen one where it was the prosecution that was claiming the electronic devices are wrong. And not just once, but several different commonwealth witnesses claim to have malfunctioning phones.

I think this point really needs to be hammered home as much as possible by the defense. I mean if they were ever able to show the average functioning of all these witnesses' phones in prior months, and then the exponential increase in out-of-the norm abberrations ocurring from Jan 28th 2022 and during the 'investigation'...

 

[nodamselindistress]

It really IS hard to fathom so many players conspiring behind the scenes to frame KR. I get it. Would not believe it if I had not seen the lies, can't remembers, butt dials, butt answers, etc.

Just wish it were easier to figure out who or what they are hiding. Brian Higgins just does not figure into it for me, except in the aftermath and his alleged help in the cover-up. Just because he is good friends with Brian Albert? or is there more? The whole texting w/KR was a non-factor for me, it did not go anywhere and neither party pushed it to go further.

While I find those marks on JO's arm very suspicious and do not put it past dog bites (I have dogs, I have seen dog bites and scratches up close and personal), I just can't see this all being a cover-up because Chloe bit JO. That does not explain all his other injuries. Besides, homeowner's insurance would cover dog bites that occurred on the property.

So I end up back to my favorite suspect, Colin Albert. He is the only one who makes sense to me.

Just hypothesizing here, nothing more. All JMHO.

 

[shotgun09]

Beyond the fact that it's very easy to get a Grand Jury to indict anywhere, (ham sandwich, anyone?) pretty much all of the info the defense is putting up on cross now had not yet been developed when the indictments came down. In fact, Yannetti originally said this was an unfortunate accident and not second degree murder when she was up-charged with second degree in 2022.

What happened? Really important question. I think it was a combination of things. First, there had been local chatter before John's funeral that this was no car accident. I heard it very early on. But I think more importantly, the defense got their hands on those autopsy photos and everything changed. This really was no car accident from that point forward.

It surely was the picture of JOK's arm at autopsy that had me in the aww hell no camp. The additional story of cover up and SODDI defense was interesting at Opening statements, but my doubts were highly raised with the picture.

I knew absolutely nothing about this case until the first day of trial. I had seen the thread here on ' Professor Karen Read.." for over a year, but never was interested. I had just assumed the case was another slam dunk 'suitcase murderess'. Until I peaked in at the trial live stream. Wow, was I ever wrong !!

 

[jepop]

It is HUGE.

And it screams GUILT.

There's something up with Higgins.Keeping me awake at night. Timelines and parked cars and german shepherds and snow plows endlessly rotating. Need to switch off!

 

[Dre]

It really IS hard to fathom so many players conspiring behind the scenes to frame KR. I get it. Would not believe it if I had not seen the lies, can't remembers, butt dials, butt answers, etc.

Just wish it were easier to figure out who or what they are hiding. Brian Higgins just does not figure into it for me, except in the aftermath and his alleged help in the cover-up. Just because he is good friends with Brian Albert? or is there more? The whole texting w/KR was a non-factor for me, it did not go anywhere and neither party pushed it to go further.

While I find those marks on JO's arm very suspicious and do not put it past dog bites (I have dogs, I have seen dog bites and scratches up close and personal), I just can't see this all being a cover-up because Chloe bit JO. That does not explain all his other injuries. Besides, homeowner's insurance would cover dog bites that occurred on the property.

So I end up back to my favorite suspect, Colin Albert. He is the only one who makes sense to me.

Just hypothesizing here, nothing more. All JMHO.

I keep wondering if JO made a snide comment to BH about Karen (or I suppose vice versa) and it escalated quickly because of the toxic combustion that is anger, pride and alcohol.

Perhaps in the heat of the moment, Colin and Chloe immediately joined in, believing they were defending BA and BH.

Jmo

 

[pavlovsdaughter]

I thought for sure BH was a prime suspect in this case but he really “won me over” with his testimony.

I agree his texts with KR are mostly a nothing burger - both of them seemed pretty ambivalent about it. When he was telling the story about the one time she came over his house, she stayed for not even one drink then left and nothing happened - that rang very true to me. I’ve had similar things happen where you do too much of the flirting via text beforehand then when you finally meet up there’s no flirting left to do and it’s just awkward. Lol.

So I don’t think it goes to a motive for either of them. It is most definitely terrible for KR’s character though - some people really hate cheaters with a vitriol that shocks me, and if anyone on the jury feels that way, it’s tough to come back from.

He just really didn’t strike me as a killer, idk. He seemed like a not super bright, sensitive guy.

That said - I think it’s totally possible he participated in some kind of cover up, possibly out of loyalty to BA. He obviously holds the thin blue line (going to NY for the funeral of a cop he didn’t even know, mentioned to KR going to another cop’s funeral). Maybe he felt it was a lesser evil to help cover up the crime than to see a good cop (BA) taken off the street.

However, I’m still not convinced this wasn’t an accident. JO would be far from the first man to die from misadventure due to a combination of drinking and poor weather. A theory I’ve been kicking around is this:

-KR drops JO off and he slips, hits his head, passes out, something happens. Possibly gets hit by a plow or other vehicle afterward to cause some of his other injuries.
-The next morning when the McAlberts are gathered at Fairview, JM relates the “I hit him” story.
-The attendees decide they need to get justice for JO and that they won’t let KR get away with it. The “cover up” begins - but from their perspective they’re just helping LE uncover the truth and thinking they’re making an ironclad case against KR.
-The last point could also be true even if KR did hit JO, that they tampered with the scene and evidence to ensure her arrest and conviction.

All moo!

 

[waldojabba]

Higgins isn't just "some guy". He's a federal agent. That means that that he has a responsibility to not just avoid wrongdoing, but also the appearance of wrongdoing. He went to a military base and destroyed his phone. No matter how that's spun, it is extremely suspect behavior.

And the fact that his superiors have apparently put him on desk duty suggests that this isn't just some conspiracy theory, but they have a real concern about the actions he has taken.

edit - And let's be real. If Karen Read had destroyed her phone, the people defending Higgins would have been jumping all over this as proof she was guilty.

Totally true. Karen handed over her phone. She probably had all the same concerns as all of us if LE wants our phone - what about my banking info/personal things etc. If you happen to be involved in something like this, just by your mere presence at the scene, you hand over your phone - that just what you do - it helps the investigation rule you out - that is if you have nothing to hide. As a Fed you have an absolute obligation imo.
Was BH involved in JOK murder. I don’t know. But it looks to me that he is Big Time involved in something/ very used to thinking the rules don’t apply to him/ he and BA very tight with the chief.
(Btw That very same chief Berkowitz who found those tail gate shards supposedly from KA’s vehicle while driving by BA’s house on a “whim” a week or so later. That very same chief who retired in June of 2022. )
BH is pretty big on swagger - used to being dominant - and harbors s lot of anger imo.
Wonder what’s in that medical file?
JMO

 

[keek]

I keep wondering if JO made a snide comment to BH about Karen (or I suppose vice versa) and it escalated quickly because of the toxic combustion that is anger, pride and alcohol.

Perhaps in the heat of the moment, Colin and Chloe immediately joined in, believing they were defending BA and BH.

Jmo

Turns out JO DID know about or had that thought about it per the K and Higgins texts. He wasn't 'worried,' but , you know. So something along those lines maybeee as obv it would of been said, K not coming in.... Colin and Chloe are the hidden ones, along with JOs cap, why and his shoe. I did think shoe would of been some kind of give away perhaps, so it was taken and destroyed, same with cap. Higgins was being super wary and asking K the right questions with her clearly 'setting her sights on him, BUT unfortunately for that night and him prob still waiting to see what was really UP with her and JO and himself. She didn't go in, all drinking a lot, testosterone and PLAIN stupidness could of easily been a factor, too. WHY such ending though instead of seeing what had been done to him, through maybe falling and hitting his head on something, or someone bashing him from behind, (colin mode), not CALL AN AMBULANCE. That's the COLIN angle and it never had to end like this, if JO survived.. I mean NOT tossed outside, them knowing the likely outcome, along with clearly JMc.

 

[nodamselindistress]

I keep wondering if JO made a snide comment to BH about Karen (or I suppose vice versa) and it escalated quickly because of the toxic combustion that is anger, pride and alcohol.

Perhaps in the heat of the moment, Colin and Chloe immediately joined in, believing they were defending BA and BH.

Jmo

That is possible, I could see that happening with this group. Whatever happened, there was proof on the phones of BA and BH such that both had to get new phones and get rid of the old ones. Way too coincidental and suspicious to be nothing.

 

[keek]

Turns out JO DID know about or had that thought about it per the K and Higgins texts. He wasn't 'worried,' but , you know. So something along those lines maybeee as obv it would of been said, K not coming in.... Colin and Chloe are the hidden ones, along with JOs cap, why and his shoe. I did think shoe would of been some kind of give away perhaps, so it was taken and destroyed, same with cap. Higgins was being super wary and asking K the right questions with her clearly 'setting her sights on him, BUT unfortunately for that night and him prob still waiting to see what was really UP with her and JO and himself. She didn't go in, all drinking a lot, testosterone and PLAIN stupidness could of easily been a factor, too. WHY such ending though instead of seeing what had been done to him, through maybe falling and hitting his head on something, or someone bashing him from behind, (colin mode), not CALL AN AMBULANCE. That's the COLIN angle and it never had to end like this, if JO survived.. I mean NOT tossed outside, them knowing the likely outcome, along with clearly JMc.

OH, and yes, I do not mean his injuries are caused by just a fall and hitting his head on something solid and able to make that deep gouge in his head. He was already getting beat up on.

 

[nodamselindistress]

Totally true. Karen handed over her phone. She probably had all the same concerns as all of us if LE wants our phone - what about my banking info/personal things etc. If you happen to be involved in something like this, just by your mere presence at the scene, you hand over your phone - that just what you do - it helps the investigation rule you out - that is if you have nothing to hide. As a Fed you have an absolute obligation imo.
Was BH involved in JOK murder. I don’t know. But it looks to me that he is Big Time involved in something/ very used to thinking the rules don’t apply to him/ he and BA very tight with the chief.
(Btw That very same chief Berkowitz who found those tail gate shards supposedly from KA’s vehicle while driving by BA’s house on a “whim” a week or so later. That very same chief who retired in June of 2022. )
BH is pretty big on swagger - used to being dominant - and harbors s lot of anger imo.
Wonder what’s in that medical file?
JMO

Oh wow, did not know chief Berkowitz retired too.

So let me get this straight, since "the incident", BA retired from Boston PD, BH got put on desk duty with the ATF, Chief Berkowitz retired from Canton PD, BA "rehomed" his dog Chloe, BA sold his house. I do not believe they are all retirement age, either. Hmmmm.

 

[Wishbone]

It really IS hard to fathom so many players conspiring behind the scenes to frame KR. I get it. Would not believe it if I had not seen the lies, can't remembers, butt dials, butt answers, etc.

Just wish it were easier to figure out who or what they are hiding. Brian Higgins just does not figure into it for me, except in the aftermath and his alleged help in the cover-up. Just because he is good friends with Brian Albert? or is there more? The whole texting w/KR was a non-factor for me, it did not go anywhere and neither party pushed it to go further.

While I find those marks on JO's arm very suspicious and do not put it past dog bites (I have dogs, I have seen dog bites and scratches up close and personal), I just can't see this all being a cover-up because Chloe bit JO. That does not explain all his other injuries. Besides, homeowner's insurance would cover dog bites that occurred on the property.

So I end up back to my favorite suspect, Colin Albert. He is the only one who makes sense to me.

Just hypothesizing here, nothing more. All JMHO.

I can't give BH a pass. IMO he knows it all, at least saw it all, and may have participated in it all. In other words, I believe him complicit. His desperate attempts to hide and destroy evidence or information and also by being physically in places he shouldn't have been at suspicious times does not equal uninvolved in my eyes. He put his job and his current lifestyle at risk and then involved his FBI best friend and put his job in jeopardy as well. And it appears the defense may present more as to his involvement. I'm waiting for it.

 

[jepop]

I thought for sure BH was a prime suspect in this case but he really “won me over” with his testimony.

I agree his texts with KR are mostly a nothing burger - both of them seemed pretty ambivalent about it. When he was telling the story about the one time she came over his house, she stayed for not even one drink then left and nothing happened - that rang very true to me. I’ve had similar things happen where you do too much of the flirting via text beforehand then when you finally meet up there’s no flirting left to do and it’s just awkward. Lol.

So I don’t think it goes to a motive for either of them. It is most definitely terrible for KR’s character though - some people really hate cheaters with a vitriol that shocks me, and if anyone on the jury feels that way, it’s tough to come back from.

He just really didn’t strike me as a killer, idk. He seemed like a not super bright, sensitive guy.

That said - I think it’s totally possible he participated in some kind of cover up, possibly out of loyalty to BA. He obviously holds the thin blue line (going to NY for the funeral of a cop he didn’t even know, mentioned to KR going to another cop’s funeral). Maybe he felt it was a lesser evil to help cover up the crime than to see a good cop (BA) taken off the street.

However, I’m still not convinced this wasn’t an accident. JO would be far from the first man to die from misadventure due to a combination of drinking and poor weather. A theory I’ve been kicking around is this:

-KR drops JO off and he slips, hits his head, passes out, something happens. Possibly gets hit by a plow or other vehicle afterward to cause some of his other injuries.
-The next morning when the McAlberts are gathered at Fairview, JM relates the “I hit him” story.
-The attendees decide they need to get justice for JO and that they won’t let KR get away with it. The “cover up” begins - but from their perspective they’re just helping LE uncover the truth and thinking they’re making an ironclad case against KR.
-The last point could also be true even if KR did hit JO, that they tampered with the scene and evidence to ensure her arrest and conviction.

All moo!

Great theory and accident is high on my list at present. Only in relation to your last sentence, I'm now almost 100 per cent convinced there was no damage to KR's car until 5 am that morning and then only minor damage to passenger tail light. So I really am thinking' there's no chance she reversed into him with the lexus.Jmo

I need to understand the arm wounds and so far have only two candidates 1). a large dog 2) arm impacting with either a stationary or moving snow plow. Face impacting with a snow plow might also account for facial injuries but just guessing. Need expert testimony Moo

 

[keek]

I can't give BH a pass. IMO he knows it all, at least saw it all, and may have participated in it all. In other words, I believe him complicit. His desperate attempts to hide and destroy evidence or information and also by being physically in places he shouldn't have been at suspicious times does not equal uninvolved in my eyes. He put his job and his current lifestyle at risk and then involved his FBI best friend and put his job in jeopardy as well. And it appears the defense may present more as to his involvement. I'm waiting for it.

Sadly, spot on.

 

[Charlot123]

Higgins isn't just "some guy". He's a federal agent. That means that that he has a responsibility to not just avoid wrongdoing, but also the appearance of wrongdoing. He went to a military base and destroyed his phone. No matter how that's spun, it is extremely suspect behavior.

And the fact that his superiors have apparently put him on desk duty suggests that this isn't just some conspiracy theory, but they have a real concern about the actions he has taken.

edit - And let's be real. If Karen Read had destroyed her phone, the people defending Higgins would have been jumping all over this as proof she was guilty.

JMO: if he is a federal agent who accidentally got involved in an accident in a policeman's house, would you expect him to enter a conspiracy plot or hand over the information about the whole conspiracy plot, trying to save own skin? I think, the latter. Usually people of such level prefer to save their own skin, they won't lie with the conspirators. The theory that BH offer JO because of KR makes no sense.

IMO, what makes sense... I assume BH is unmarried and has no kids, only because KR mentioned it. But - i am not sure. However, if he does have someone living with him, close, and the person is jealous, then I'd expect him to divert some of personal calls to work number. Because, see, calls to/from personal phone can always be tracked. There are carriers. But a business number is another thing. It is stupid, but if BH were married and cheating on his wife, this is exactly the level of stupidity I'd expect from him. Bigger men, generals, fell over similar sidekicks.

 

[nodamselindistress]

I can't give BH a pass. IMO he knows it all, at least saw it all, and may have participated in it all. In other words, I believe him complicit. His desperate attempts to hide and destroy evidence or information and also by being physically in places he shouldn't have been at suspicious times does not equal uninvolved in my eyes. He put his job and his current lifestyle at risk and then involved his FBI best friend and put his job in jeopardy as well. And it appears the defense may present more as to his involvement. I'm waiting for it.

One thing I do not remember seeing during his testimony Friday is what time he showed up at Canton PD on the 29th? I may have just missed it. For some reason I have 1:30 AM in my memory, but just not sure. If so, how long would it take him to drive from BA's house at 34 Fairview to the Canton PD? Certainly not 1/2 hr right? If these assumptions are correct, then BH left BA's house later than he said (12:30-1:00 am).