MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #4

[nodamselindistress]

JMO: if he is a federal agent who accidentally got involved in an accident in a policeman's house, would you expect him to enter a conspiracy plot or hand over the information about the whole conspiracy plot, trying to save own skin? I think, the latter. Usually people of such level prefer to save their own skin, they won't lie with the conspirators. The theory that BH offer JO because of KR makes no sense.

IMO, what makes sense... I assume BH is unmarried and has no kids, only because KR mentioned it. But - i am not sure. However, if he does have someone living with him, close, and the person is jealous, then I'd expect him to divert some of personal calls to work number. Because, see, calls to/from personal phone can always be tracked. There are carriers. But a business number is another thing. It is stupid, but if BH were married and cheating on his wife, this is exactly the level of stupidity I'd expect from him. Bigger men, generals, fell over similar sidekicks.

Higgins said in the texts he is not married and has no kids. Also, KR got his number from a friend at the Hillside bar, so I seriously doubt their texts were on his work phone. JMHO.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I keep wondering if JO made a snide comment to BH about Karen (or I suppose vice versa) and it escalated quickly because of the toxic combustion that is anger, pride and alcohol.

Perhaps in the heat of the moment, Colin and Chloe immediately joined in, believing they were defending BA and BH.

Jmo

I think it was something along these lines, and that it happened as soon as John arrived. Because of the obvious efforts to protect Colin, I suspect he's the one who ended John's life with that blow to the back of his head with a heavy object. After some punches from someone else and some lacerations from Chloe.

One of problems I had accepting this at first was the why the young people in the house never spoke up. Especially someone like Sara Levinson, a young nurse with zero family connections. They didn't kill anyone. But there are a few things to keep in mind.

First, Yannetti has said emphatically they have proof the victim was attacked in the basement. Looking at the blueprint of the house, it's very possible people in the kitchen dining area never saw John enter from the main front door or go downstairs. But surely they were aware something bad happened in the basement? The house is big, but it's not a mansion.

I can imagine Brian Albert gathering up these young people and reading them the riot act. You saw nothing. You heard nothing. You know nothing. No one else ever entered this house. And if you say otherwise, you and your family will be very, very sorry. He's a powerful guy in the little kingdom of Canton.

Now, if the State troopers had come knocking and asking probing questions as one would expect, someone like Sara Levinson might have tipped them off immediately. It's a horrible thing to cover up a murder. But lead trooper and good Albert friend Michael Proctor made sure that never happened. And no one was brave enough to come forward on their own.

And it worked for a nice long time. No law enforcement agent asked the young party goers anything. Heck, no one knew all their names. Think about that. Not until the involvement of the FBI considerably later did anyone start asking questions about these people.

Is simply sticking with "didn't see anything" easier than admitting you knew about a murder and kept your mouth shut for a very long time? Less fraught with danger in the minds of these twenty-somethings? Here's the definition of "accessory after the fact".

In Massachusetts, an accessory after the fact is someone who helps a criminal after a felony has been committed, and the crime is defined in Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 274, Section 4. To convict someone of this crime, a prosecutor must prove the following beyond a reasonable doubt:

• The defendant helped the principal felon or accessory after the crime was committed
• The defendant knew the person they helped had committed or been an accessory to the crime
• The defendant helped the offender with the intent that they avoid or escape arrest, trial, punishment, or detention

Isn't failure to come forward here and tell what you know helping murderers avoid arrest?

Just my rambles, of course.

 

[waldojabba]

Turns out JO DID know about or had that thought about it per the K and Higgins texts. He wasn't 'worried,' but , you know. So something along those lines maybeee as obv it would have been said, K not coming in.... Colin and Chloe are the hidden ones, along with JOs cap, why and his shoe. I did think shoe would have been some kind of give away perhaps, so it was taken and destroyed, same with cap. Higgins was being super wary and asking K the right questions with her clearly 'setting her sights on him, BUT unfortunately for that night and him prob still waiting to see what was really UP with her and JO and himself. She didn't go in, all drinking a lot, testosterone and PLAIN stupidness could have easily been a factor, too. WHY such ending though instead of seeing what had been done to him, through maybe falling and hitting his head on something, or someone bashing him from behind, (colin mode), not CALL AN AMBULANCE. That's the COLIN angle and it never had to end like this, if JO survived.. I mean NOT tossed outside, them knowing the likely outcome, along with clearly JMc.

I can see all of this occurring. And if so it definitely did not have to end like this.
Why not call an ambulance? Booze and who
knows what other mind altering substances.
Bad decisions bc too much booze too much testosterone and after all they were the cops - tight with the chief. They had this covered. They controlled the narrative just like always they could contain it. No scandals no fallout.
No inquiries.
Makes me wonder if true, how many other times they covered up or planted evidence etc.
I feel like I know the answer to that question already unfortunately
But then in the back of my mind .. I still wrestle with whether JOK uncovered something about the the Albert “ inner circle” - maybe drug related - and told the wrong person - so they made him disappear.
I still don’t like the missing hat sneaker and belt. And the defensive wounds/marks on his arms. But esp the belt. I’ve seen that only on twitter - that he has a belt on at the waterfall but was discovered without one. And the fbi is onto something that is bigger than this case but I believe related.
Something is rotten
JMO.

 

[Charlot123]

As this is trial is apparently real life and not a movie, I'm not spoiler warning.

There is much more to come with BH on Tuesday with regard to the sallyport, Kenny the Canton Police Chief, and Karen's car. AJ was setting it up yesterday.

He ain't no unfortunate one.

Thanks for the alert.

However, I lose a lot because of time difference and work hours. So what is the best way to watch it after hours?

 

[HarmonyE.]

Thanks for the alert.

However, I lose a lot because of time difference and work hours. So what is the best way to watch it after hours?

If you don't mind a little attorney chatter, I love Emily D. Baker and her law nerds YouTube channel. She has not followed the case prior to the trial and is watching as a juror with a legal background. She's usually a little behind the live streams, but she's funny, spot-on, and wicked smart. I catch up on the stuff I missed watching her at night.

 

[nodamselindistress]

YouTube, Law&Crime and CourtTV both carry it on YouTube and you don't have to watch live, it is there later

 

[Wishbone]

If you don't mind a little attorney chatter, I love Emily D. Baker and her law nerds YouTube channel. She has not followed the case prior to the trial and is watching as a juror with a legal background. She's usually a little behind the live streams, but she's funny, spot-on, and wicked smart. I catch up on the stuff I missed watching her at night.

Curious as to what she is thinking about KR being guilty at this point or does she see a cover up and other guilty parties. Like the idea of hearing it from a juror's perspective.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Curious as to what she is thinking about KR being guilty at this point or does she see a cover up and other guilty parties. Like the idea of hearing it from a juror's perspective.

She's appalled by the prosecution. Keeping an open mind, but presently appalled.

 

[nodamselindistress]

Only thing I can think is the Prosecution is getting their worst witnesses out of the way first, hoping the jury doesn't remember them by the end?

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Oh wow, did not know chief Berkowitz retired too.

So let me get this straight, since "the incident", BA retired from Boston PD, BH got put on desk duty with the ATF, Chief Berkowitz retired from Canton PD, BA "rehomed" his dog Chloe, BA sold his house. I do not believe they are all retirement age, either. Hmmmm.

Yikes! I would have wanted lawyers from outside Canton, Boston, and MA too! IIUC KR has some counsel from CA? Good for her! MOO

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Only thing I can think is the Prosecution is getting their worst witnesses out of the way first, hoping the jury doesn't remember them by the end?

I hope not. That’s a horrible strategy JMO but IANAL.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Great theory and accident is high on my list at present. Only in relation to your last sentence, I'm now almost 100 per cent convinced there was no damage to KR's car until 5 am that morning and then only minor damage to passenger tail light. So I really am thinking' there's no chance she reversed into him with the lexus.Jmo

I need to understand the arm wounds and so far have only two candidates 1). a large dog 2) arm impacting with either a stationary or moving snow plow. Face impacting with a snow plow might also account for facial injuries but just guessing. Need expert testimony Moo

Yes! ^… and on the latter candidate, possibly a plow scraping the arm across an asphalt, concrete, or gravel / stone surface? When he was perhaps already prone?

I mean all the gouges / furrows are parallel and of varying depth and length! Seems there can’t be a single surface or structure on or under a Lexus of that type to cause that? If I was working with the defense, I’d try to have Toyota/Lexus model those cuts / furrows with all known structures and surfaces of that vehicle! (Oh wait, NVM….. that is already part of the prosecution’s case, right?/sarc.)

I earlier asked if known whether JOK was clad in either a coat or sleeved shirt, and seems that is not known. And the follow to that was, if he was clad with some clothing before / during the incident how was it affected? Torn, sliced, other? Were those clothing items (if used) ever recovered or part of evidence? And if not investigated that is appalling IMO. As we have already indicated, no apparent testing of JOK wounds for canine DNA, nor do I expect oil, dirt, grime? How about gravel? MOO

 

[housewife]

I haven't seen any of that information addressed. I would have to add some items that appear to be missing. One shoe, one ball cap, and I've also heard possibly a belt, not sure. JMO

RE: JO's clothing

1. The state said they submitted the clothing to the state lab.
2. Defense requested multiple times for the clothing to be given to them for their own independent testing.
3. The state claimed they would not release the clothing until all testing was done and they blamed the defense for the delay.
4. The state claimed testing was delayed because the defense didn't provide a request or their own expert or something fast enough (?)

At this point I don't know if the actual clothing ever made it to the defense for their own tests.
If anyone has info, I would appreciate it. I've gone through so many court documents and can't find info.
Also: There was a claim that JO's clothing was seen on the hospital floor, but I can't verify this.

 

[ch_13]

JMO: if he is a federal agent who accidentally got involved in an accident in a policeman's house, would you expect him to enter a conspiracy plot or hand over the information about the whole conspiracy plot, trying to save own skin? I think, the latter. Usually people of such level prefer to save their own skin, they won't lie with the conspirators. The theory that BH offer JO because of KR makes no sense.

IMO, what makes sense... I assume BH is unmarried and has no kids, only because KR mentioned it. But - i am not sure. However, if he does have someone living with him, close, and the person is jealous, then I'd expect him to divert some of personal calls to work number. Because, see, calls to/from personal phone can always be tracked. There are carriers. But a business number is another thing. It is stupid, but if BH were married and cheating on his wife, this is exactly the level of stupidity I'd expect from him. Bigger men, generals, fell over similar sidekicks.

I never said that Higgins is part of a conspiracy. Simply that his behavior is sketchy. Maybe he's protecting his friends, maybe he's hiding something unrelated by getting rid of his phone. And it's possible that by destroying the evidence, he did "save his skin" because he knew there was something on it that the Feds would be able to use against him. We know Higgins is currently on desk duty. In all likelihood he will have to resign and even if he's able to hang on to his job, it's a virtual certainty he will never be promoted or trusted with line duty again. His career with ATF is for all intents and purposes over.

Did you notice how carefully he answered certain questions on the stand? He never admitted or denied that he destroyed the SIM, instead answering it as "if I did it" (shades of OJ). He said that two or three times. Clearly he was coached to answer that way by his attorney to avoid a charge of perjury. And he only remembers passing through the sally port yet the defense has an eyewitness that puts him and Chief Berkowitz with Karen's SUV for an extended period of time. Why do you think he was at Canton PD for the whole day when he had the day off? And I'm not even going to get into the ridiculousness of the 2:30 AM "butt dials". Whatever his motivation, much of what he said on the stand under cross-examination was just not credible, IMO.

 

[nodamselindistress]

Pictures of JO leaving the Waterfall Bar show him in a sweatshirt and jeans, no coat. As far as I have heard, they cut his shirt off in the ambulance and threw it on the floor. I believe other of his clothes might be missing, including the shoe/hat/belt.

 

[housewife]

.

Let us take "conspiracy" out of equation and discuss other possible practical reasons.

All I know about BH and that comes from his communication with KR, is that he was unmarried and seemingly unattached in January of 2022. And then he was asked to forward his cellphone. Why didn't he? JMO:

- he might have had personal communications with several people via his phone and didn't want anyone to see them
- he could have ordered something via his phone and didn't want people to see the nature of the order?
- he did not know how much could be extracted from his phone and had some apps (nothing wrong - finances, for example) and didn't want random people to get access to them or passwords.

- last to type, but first thing that came to mind when i put myself in his shoes. He may have friends living outside of Canton and totally unrelated to KR's case. Imagine these friends sharing their deeply personal information with him via texts. Sometimes we protect friends' secrets better than own.

If BH is uninvolved in any conspiracy (and I suspect he isn't), he knows that his alibi can be established. But as any human, he doesnt want all his life to be out there because he had the misfortune to be in BA's house that night.

I agree that Higgins destruction of his phone after receiving the preservation order is most likely due to protecting secrets.
And Higgins wasn't submitting his phone to random people, it was going to the investigators.
He had nothing to worry about complying to the court... unless Higgins knows the investigators leak information to random people...

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Thanks wishbone…. appreciate it!

Those arm injuries…… very confusing. And also wanted to add that after working on cars etc. for over 50 years (personal hobby and repairs) those injuries sure are puzzling. And we already know what the FBI says of them, and what did not apparently contribute to them, and I concur with their assessment.

And if those other items are missing, one might surmise the victim was moved perhaps from a location of an earlier incident? Did a snowplow possibly hit or run over the victim?

I sure hope someone attempts to reconstruct how those injuries (and any others sustained by JOK) were sustained. To ‘prove’ or disprove the theory of the case. Or, illustrate what could not have done it. (I know….. not really possible to prove a negative.) MOO

He may have fallen backwards onto a snow plow but most snowplow hits involve the entire body and not just the head. That's what has everyone perplexed. Just the back of the head... and then the right arm. Think Jeremy Renner. He was hit by a snowplow and had so much trauma. I just can't imagine how so many coincidences could happen to have JO turned, bending over with his head facing backwards at that precise time a car was backing. The way Karen was parked, JO would have gotten out of the passenger side of the vehicle (Karen was driving) and walked directly to the home. He didn't have to walk around the vehicle. She pulled up with the passenger side facing the home. I'd love to know his ETOH level. Maybe he slipped by himself and fell backwards or was lightly hit but enough to make him fall backwards and smack his head on frozen ground? If KR, or anyone else, had performed a 3 point turn, JO would have had enough time to have made several strides toward the home thereby putting him out of harms way from vehicles.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

He may have fallen backwards onto a snow plow but most snowplow hits involve the entire body and not just the head. That's what has everyone perplexed. Just the back of the head... and then the right arm. Think Jeremy Renner. He was hit by a snowplow and had so much trauma. I just can't imagine how so many coincidences could happen to have JO turned, bending over with his head facing backwards at that precise time a car was backing. The way Karen was parked, JO would have gotten out of the passenger side of the vehicle (Karen was driving) and walked directly to the home. He didn't have to walk around the vehicle. She pulled up with the passenger side facing the home. I'd love to know his ETOH level. Maybe he slipped by himself and fell backwards or was lightly hit but enough to make him fall backwards and smack his head on frozen ground? If KR had performed a 3 point turn, JO would have had enough time to have made several strides toward the home thereby putting him out of harms way from vehicles.

Yes, and I don’t disagree. Setting aside the injuries to the head and upper surfaces is it? of JOK hands, I was just trying to understand the arm injuries. They are unusual and significant….. and if could be understood or modeled go a long ways to explaining things in some respect? Seemed to be upper and outer surface of the right arm IIRC…… and appears to have been heavily IMO scraped or drug across some surface…. not smooth…. perhaps asphalt, gravel, or stone? MOO

 

[jepop]

JMO: if he is a federal agent who accidentally got involved in an accident in a policeman's house, would you expect him to enter a conspiracy plot or hand over the information about the whole conspiracy plot, trying to save own skin? I think, the latter. Usually people of such level prefer to save their own skin, they won't lie with the conspirators. The theory that BH offer JO because of KR makes no sense.

IMO, what makes sense... I assume BH is unmarried and has no kids, only because KR mentioned it. But - i am not sure. However, if he does have someone living with him, close, and the person is jealous, then I'd expect him to divert some of personal calls to work number. Because, see, calls to/from personal phone can always be tracked. There are carriers. But a business number is another thing. It is stupid, but if BH were married and cheating on his wife, this is exactly the level of stupidity I'd expect from him. Bigger men, generals, fell over similar sidekicks.

Jmo but if you can you it might be useful to watch the trial testimony in order to consider what is already in evidence or expected to be admitted into evidence (via prelim or opening statements). We all have certain expectations from our personal experiences, but during a trial I feel it's more important to pay close attention to witness testimony and the evidence or expected evidence to inform speculation. Imoo.

Many,many after hours youtube streams; just search Karen Read trial youtube, you can't miss it. Jmo

 

[turaj]

It really IS hard to fathom so many players conspiring behind the scenes to frame KR. I get it. Would not believe it if I had not seen the lies, can't remembers, butt dials, butt answers, etc.

Just wish it were easier to figure out who or what they are hiding. Brian Higgins just does not figure into it for me, except in the aftermath and his alleged help in the cover-up. Just because he is good friends with Brian Albert? or is there more? The whole texting w/KR was a non-factor for me, it did not go anywhere and neither party pushed it to go further.

While I find those marks on JO's arm very suspicious and do not put it past dog bites (I have dogs, I have seen dog bites and scratches up close and personal), I just can't see this all being a cover-up because Chloe bit JO. That does not explain all his other injuries. Besides, homeowner's insurance would cover dog bites that occurred on the property.

So I end up back to my favorite suspect, Colin Albert. He is the only one who makes sense to me.

Just hypothesizing here, nothing more. All JMHO.

I am still looking at Colin myself. Might go back and listen to his testimony again now in the light of that of Higgins. Higgins is really only involved in the coverup to my mind....but who actually inflicted the injuries on JO that combined with the exposure to the winter weather killed him.