MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #5

[KMouse]

What was her plan with Brian Higgins? It’s a very curious thing. She just out of the blue starts texting him days before she killed John. Calling him “hot” repeatedly and planting a kiss on him. She wasn’t interested in him romantically because he made sure to ask her what she wanted repeatedly and she was quite vague. He was on to her manipulation but was also flattered and curious.

JMO

KR & JO's relationship was obviously on the outs. If they were a happy couple this wouldn't have happened. This was attention seeking and needing male attention to pump her ego. It was also a possible back up for when things completely ended with JO. She's probably afraid to be alone. I really wish they could have just broken up and gone their own ways and we wouldn't be watching this dumpster fire play out in court.

 

[housewife]

BA and BH both got new phones the day before they were to receive the order to preserve their phones.

So the preservation order was issued
Sept 23. They destroyed their phones the 29th, and claim they didn't get the order until Sept 30.

That's what I don't understand. Lally should have immediately notified everyone Sept 23.

 

[shotgun09]

Now I am back to Higgins being responsible. Putting Chloe, Colin Albert and Brian Albert on the side as co-conspirators in the death of JOK.

Dude was known for his drinking. His female trysts were note-worthy....see love texts.

Testified to in court, by BH:
He was drinking extensively on Jan 28-29th.
He was at the scene of the crime, early am 29th.
He denied the proven calls to Brian Albert at 2:22.
He stayed at the CPD for the most of the day. ( 29th) to assist in the cover-up. ( Tail light pieces, missing CCC video)

On the 30th, he admits to enlisting the help of his friend ( FBI lab) to download and 'recover' his love messages to KR...to assist in the cover up.

Not sure when exactly he pulled his "Get outta Dodge" move and skidaddled to Rehab....but me thinks it was when KR obtained a defense attorney. Dude was scared straight. Just my mere musings

 

[ch_13]

What was her plan with Brian Higgins? It’s a very curious thing.

rsbm.

It is a curious thing. And in my opinion it presents a big problem for the prosecution. What was Karen Read's motive? Now, I know that technically the commonwealth doesn't need a motive. But I think jurors are going to want to understand why Karen committed the act she is accused of "with malice aforethought" as the lawbooks say. Murders of one's partner usually don't happen on a whim. In every case I can think of, there's always been a reason.

Sometimes it's because of a history of domestic violence in the relationship. But there's none of that here from either Karen or from John.

Sometimes religious issues preclude a divorce. But these were both single people with a long history of dating relationships. They had both been through break-ups many times in the past.

Sometimes it's because of money or because one partner wants full custody of the kids. Again neither applies here. Karen's finances were separate and she was self-reliant. She wasn't entitled to any insurance money or to John's benefits. And the kids would have always gone to one of John's family members.

Until we heard the texts, the operating theory expressed in this thread and on social media was the "Jodi Arias motive". Seething jealousy, anger and hatred after she was rejected by her boyfriend. But that certainly wasn't the woman in the texts. Karen seemed fully ready to move on and likely would have had no shortage of male attention.

Now the kids still have to testify, so maybe we'll hear something that will shed light on the situation. But right now, after four weeks of testimony, I still don't know what the commonwealth believes. Do they think she just snapped because she heard Jenn McCabe mention "Bella's mom"? Was this all planned out and she was faking being "lovey-dovey" with John that evening? Is she some kind of late-blooming thrill killer?

As you say, it's very curious.

 

[PamCake]

Can state police search a military base? Either way, did Higgins think they couldn't?

I'm pretty sure that trash is very carefully handled on military bases for purposes of national security. Some bases have burn pits where trash is totally obliterated, and others have burial areas that are carefully monitored. Someone who does not want his/her phone EVER found might consider a military base the best place for disposal.

Anyone think that BH’s ATF digital forensics friend explained to him that destroying devices on a military base would hinder any timely search/seizure/records requests?

I'm pretty sure that trash is very carefully handled on military bases for purposes of national security. Some bases have burn pits where trash is totally obliterated, and others have burial areas that are carefully monitored. Someone who does not want his/her phone EVER found might consider a military base the best place for disposal.

 

[housewife]

I don't think this has been posted. CourtTV drives by the house and discusses what people would see from different viewpoints.

I want them to go back at night with the headlights illuminating the ground.
Headlight height and strength adjusted for each model car the witnesses drove that night.

 

[turaj]

reading here is enlightening...had no idea BH went to rehab soon after all of this. Very interesting.

 

[shotgun09]

reading here is enlightening...had no idea BH went to rehab soon after all of this. Very interesting.

To clarify: I do not 'know' that he went to rehab. I feel it was suggested, by the questioning of Jackson. And, it makes sense to me, why the question allowed was so vague, and that others were not allowed to be asked. Such as, " Where exactly were you interviewed?" We know where BA, NA, Jen and Matt McCabe were interviewed exactly. But, due to HIPPA I imagine, we cannot " Know" that in B Higgins case

ETA: added the 'r' to clarify.

 

[KMouse]

That's a possible scenario. But the defense needs to get their story straight.

They're going with 'throw everything and see what sticks'. Unfortunately I think it backfires on them to have the culprit being CA no wait it's BH or could it be the plow driver...wait it's BA....now it's the dog! It's ridiculous but will be enough for reasonable doubt and KR will walk free.

 

[PamCake]

The thing I don't like about that clip is that the reporter says that the street was pitch black. You can clearly see street lights on the streets that he is driving thru. I counted at least 3 of them. There is no accounting for any secondary lights that may have been coming from other properties such as porch lights, indoor lights, and spot or flood lamps, which may have been left on for the night during a snowstorm so that anyone plowing the driveway doesn't run over the lawn, or hit any cars that may be in the driveway.

Also, snow on the ground creates a backdrop from which items that are darker are seen in contrast with the snow, therefore making them easier to see. Of course, once the body was mostly covered with snow, it would be much less visible.

 

[Wishbone]

They're going with 'throw everything and see what sticks'. Unfortunately I think it backfires on them to have the culprit being CA no wait it's BH or could it be the plow driver...wait it's BA....now it's the dog! It's ridiculous but will be enough for reasonable doubt and KR will walk free.

Following this trial, I find there are plenty of reasons to suspect three, one of them unnamed in your post, plus want more confirmation on if the "it" dog has any relevance. JMOO

 

[nodamselindistress]

To claify: I do not 'know' that he went to rehab. I feel it was suggested, by the questioning of Jackson. And, it makes sense to me, why the question allowed was so vague, and that others were not allowed to be asked. Such as, " Where exactly were you interviewed?" We know where BA, NA, Jen and Matt McCabe were interviewed exactly. But, due to HIPPA I imagine, we cannot " Know" that in B Higgins case

I find this very believable, the good old Murdaugh way out of trouble! It totally makes sense to me. I found that line of questioning strange at the time, when he answered Sharon, I was wondering if that means something to locals which of course I am not. I expected a follow-up question "Where in Sharon" but none came.

 

[Aquarian]

To clarify: I do not 'know' that he went to rehab. I feel it was suggested, by the questioning of Jackson. And, it makes sense to me, why the question allowed was so vague, and that others were not allowed to be asked. Such as, " Where exactly were you interviewed?" We know where BA, NA, Jen and Matt McCabe were interviewed exactly. But, due to HIPPA I imagine, we cannot " Know" that in B Higgins case

ETA: added the 'r' to clarify.

If true, that’s the medical records that are coming in I bet.

 

[housewife]

snipped.

Alan Jackson | Werksman Jackson & Quinn LLP

Alan Jackson is a partner at Werksman Jackson & Quinn LLP and a legal analyst. Call Mr. Jackson at (213) 688-0460 to discuss your criminal matter.

werksmanjackson.com

Alan is a veteran of the U.S. Air Force, where he served honorably as a jet engine mechanic.

I guess I don't understand what a military background has to do with anything in this case (except using a military base to destroy evidence)?

BH understands that 13:00 and 1pm are the same thing. He can acknowledge his previous testimony while also answering questions AJ asked. He was being purposely obstinate on the stand.

BH seemed menacing to me when he leaned forward in the witness box and stared down AJ, towards the end of his testimony. I saw his face become red and thought he was going to blurt out something unexpected.
He lost all credibility when he said he had every right to destroy his phone.

 

[shotgun09]

On Butt Dials:

Is there a Guinness record for how many butt dials occurring in the same town at the 2 am time frame with said butt dial participants all being at the same crime scene within hours?

Because I mean, seriously people?
Somebody(s) thought this was a good explanation. Really...

 

[HarmonyE.]

IMO only, I wonder if she googled how long it would take for someone to die in the cold before they dumped him out there to die? If it was just being discussed as a possible way to deal with the “problem”, but it would make sense they wanted to know how long it would take for someone to freeze to death. If it would take too long, they would need a different plan. If that’s what happened, the timeline makes sense. Googling just before 2:30am, snow plow comes through at 2:30, body dumped outside at some point after.

The snow plow time is approximate. I'm not sure if the police ever checked GPS for the plow, but my guess is they did not. Because that would have been a normal investigative thing to do.

But I think it's safe to say whenever Lucky the Plow Guy first went by, John was still in the house, as Lucky has been emphatic he would have seen a body. The McCabes left Fairview at around 1:30 am and dropped off their two passengers locally, so Jen was home before 2:27. As far as we know, Jen didn't have further communication with anyone in the house, so her googling would have been in anticipation of the plan to dump him that had been discussed before she left Fairview.

To your point, did she have had some concerns that this plan might not work? That John might not die quickly, or be found too soon and somehow survive and tell? Was it her anxiety over this what caused her to stupidly google "hos long to die in the cold"?

After Matt McCabe left, the only other man in the house aside from BA was BA Jr., who suffers from severe anxiety (testimony). Colin and Higgins were already gone. I think this is why young and able-bodied Tristan Morris (now Caitlyn Albert's fiancé) was called to come to the house around 3 am, despite the fact that he'd gone home early in anticipation of working soon. Not only could he help BH move a heavy body out of the basement through the bulkhead, past the gate and to the front yard, but his vehicle could be used to block anyone from seeing what was going on from the road. This is the vehicle Lucky saw on his second pass. Even if Tristan had opted to not park in the driveway, there was zero reason for any vehicle to be parked in front of the area of the flag pole.

I also think he and Caitlyn Albert took Chloe home with them when they left to return to Easton.

 

[ch_13]

They're going with 'throw everything and see what sticks'. Unfortunately I think it backfires on them to have the culprit being CA no wait it's BH or could it be the plow driver...wait it's BA....now it's the dog! It's ridiculous but will be enough for reasonable doubt and KR will walk free.

Keep in mind that the defense doesn't have investigatory power. They can't call witnesses in and question them. Nor can they subpoena phones and other records without the judge's approval. And in this case, the judge denied pretty much every one of their motions to gather more evidence. (Usually it's the prosecution which wants all the evidence they can gather, but in this case the DA was opposed to that.) Without being able to investigate the crime fully, it's impossible for the defense to present a fully-formed theory complete with evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that someone else did it.

The only reason we know as much as we do is because the Feds became interested. And the Feds couldn't care less about what some state judge thinks is relevant. They have their own subpoena power. Unfortunately by that time a lot of records were deleted or destroyed.

As an aside, I always wondered why the two Brians gave that ridiculous excuse about near-simultaneous butt-dials. Why not just say that BA called BH to see he got home safely. Or that BA thought he had left his water bottle in BH's car during the drive home from NYC. I only realized why during this week's testimony. The Feds had obtained their phone records without their knowledge and surprised them by asking about the calls during the Federal grand jury. So they panicked and claimed it was a butt dial.

 

[shotgun09]

If true, that’s the medical records that are coming in I bet.

I am not so sure Judge Bev will allow them in. Just guessing as well.

 

[PamCake]

This is my theory about what might have happened: JO was there at the house, downcellar with the men in the "home gym". BH maybe asked JO where KR was (after all, he did text JO to see if they were coming to BA's house), causing an argument between the two that then became a physical fight. As the fight became violent, the other men there tried to break up the fight with someone possibly hitting JO with a barbell on the back of the head, causing the cut there and knocking him out (wondering about the "crescent shape" there), and the dog might've joined in the fray causing the bites and scratches on his arm. The swollen right eye was possibly caused by a left-handed person hitting him hard. JO was beaten to unconsciousness, so then he was disposed of through the basement doors into the yard, eventually ending up on the front lawn. OR a badly beaten, but conscious JO was thrown out the door into the yard, and he might've stumbled onto the ground near the flagpole and passed out, or possibly hit by a plow. (maybe even BH's plow) Hmmm...

 

[Wishbone]

The snow plow time is approximate. I'm not sure if the police ever checked GPS for the plow, but my guess is they did not. Because that would have been a normal investigative thing to do.

But I think it's safe to say whenever Lucky the Plow Guy first went by, John was still in the house, as Lucky has been emphatic he would have seen a body. The McCabes left Fairview at around 1:30 am and dropped off their two passengers locally, so Jen was home before 2:27. As far as we know, Jen didn't have further communication with anyone in the house, so her googling would have been in anticipation of the plan to dump him that had been discussed before she left Fairview.

To your point, did she have had some concerns that this plan might not work? That John might not die quickly, or be found too soon and somehow survive and tell? Was it her anxiety over this what caused her to stupidly google "hos long to die in the cold"?

After Matt McCabe left, the only other man in the house aside from BH was BH Jr., who suffers from severe anxiety (testimony). Colin and Higgins were already gone. I think this is why young and able-bodied Tristan Morris (now Caitlyn Albert's fiancé) was called to come to the house around 3 am, despite the fact that he'd gone home early in anticipation of working soon. Not only could he help BH move a heavy body out of the basement through the bulkhead, past the gate and to the front yard, but his vehicle could be used to block anyone from seeing what was going on from the road. This is the vehicle Lucky saw on his second pass. Even if Tristan had opted to not park in the driveway, there was zero reason for any vehicle to be parked in front of the area of the flag pole.

I also think he and Caitlyn Albert took Chloe home with them when they left to return to Easton.

Lucky said the car he saw was a ford edge. BA happens to own one. And the henpecked boyfriend now fiance tristan drove the high maintenance caitlyn's jeep to the albert house. So they say. JMO