Madeleine McCann general discussion thread #28

[haden]

Amaral gains nothing from leaking this story. He suspected and still suspects McCanns, so by spreading the story about Maddie's killer being a Tractorman he would only make an idiot out of himself.

Now, Eduardo Damaso is a witness in Amaral's libel trial, but remember, Correio da Manha is a tabloid, they would print anything, if that would make people to buy their newspaper. And, I suppose they would take the info even from Lucipher himself, because tabloids are like that.

So SY publishes the e-fits. The voices raise "Oy, this guy on the pic looks like Gerry McCann!". And like a rabbit from the magician's hat, from CM jumps out the story, that says the real perpetrator does not resemble the e-fits at all, duh, he's not even white! See? Here's the picture!

Isn't it a hell of a coincidence?

Well, if SY thinks the efit is Gerry McCann he would have been arrested long ago. But he hasn't.
Instead, DC Redwood has said the parents are not suspect.

 

[Hexe]

Well, if SY thinks the efit is Gerry McCann he would have been arrested long ago. But he hasn't.
Instead, DC Redwood has said the parents are not suspect.

The LE cannot arrest anybody only for his resemblance to e-fit. They need evidence. So the sole fact that Gerry McCann wasn't arrested yet means nothing, actually.

EDIT: I didn't write that SY thinks the man from e-fit is Gerry, as far as I remember.

 

[Pisces Cloud]

I personally think this e-fit business is a big, fat red-herring. It's obvious that Smith only put Gerry's face to the picture after he saw him getting off the plane. That was some months later, and when he'd also had time to see all sorts of guff written about this case on the Internet. It's even more obvious when you consider that the other picture looks nothing like Gerry. Comparing the way someone carried a child is not credible evidence, IMO.

 

[~n/t~]

I personally think this e-fit business is a big, fat red-herring. It's obvious that Smith only put Gerry's face to the picture after he saw him getting off the plane. That was some months later, and when he'd also had time to see all sorts of guff written about this case on the Internet. It's even more obvious when you consider that the other picture looks nothing like Gerry. Comparing the way someone carried a child is not credible evidence, IMO.

No the way someone carries a child is not credible evidence. However the efit does have a resemblance to GM. What motive would the Smiths have to pin it on GM? They could've kept their mouths shut and gone on with their lives. If it wasn't such a big deal why did the McCanns suppress the efits for 6 years? People say they are actively and desperately looking for their daughter but yet the most crucial part of any investigation was not released. Why?

 

[~n/t~]

Well, if SY thinks the efit is Gerry McCann he would have been arrested long ago. But he hasn't.
Instead, DC Redwood has said the parents are not suspect.

Sometimes LE does say a certain person is not a suspect until they have enough to make an arrest. Not saying that's the case here but it has happened in other cases.

 

[~n/t~]

Tractorman is PJs suspect, nothing to do with the McCanns.

Nothing official.

 

[~n/t~]

There are 3 teams working on the case now, SY and two Portuguese teams.
One of the PJ teams is helping the SY, other working independently.

It was claimed in Portuguese media that the independent PJ team researching files came up with the tractorman and that helped them to have the case reopened in Portugal.
We don't know if they have anything else on the tractorman, seems that for the reopening of the case they have to have some more info.

Tractorman has nothing to do with the SY.

Where did you get this information regarding 3 teams? This is the first I've heard of an independent team working the case. Who are they?

 

[Pisces Cloud]

No the way someone carries a child is not credible evidence. However the efit does have a resemblance to GM. What motive would the Smiths have to pin it on GM? They could've kept their mouths shut and gone on with their lives. If it wasn't such a big deal why did the McCanns suppress the efits for 6 years? People say they are actively and desperately looking for their daughter but yet the most crucial part of any investigation was not released. Why?

I thought it was just one of the Smith's with regards to the Gerry lookalike? The other e-fit is completely different. I'm not saying that he's deliberately trying to pin it on Gerry. I'm just saying that after seeing Gerry carrying the child it's influenced the portrait more than what it would have done otherwise. If it was suppressed, perhaps that was the reasoning behind it, because it wasn't very credible. Now it might have been released in the hope that someone will come forward like they've done with the Tanner sighting. If the Smiths' sighting person can be ruled out too, then they know the abduction could have been earlier.

 

[Donjeta]

I thought it was just one of the Smith's with regards to the Gerry lookalike? The other e-fit is completely different. I'm not saying that he's deliberately trying to pin it on Gerry. I'm just saying that after seeing Gerry carrying the child it's influenced the portrait more than what it would have done otherwise. If it was suppressed, perhaps that was the reasoning behind it, because it wasn't very credible. Now it might have been released in the hope that someone will come forward like they've done with the Tanner sighting. If the Smith sighting person can be ruled out too, then they know the abduction could have been earlier.

No reason it couldn't have been earlier now, IMO. Is there any evidence that the abductor walked the straightest route the fastest possible way from 5A to the sighting? He could have hidden somewhere for a while to do whatever.

 

[~n/t~]

I thought it was just one of the Smith's with regards to the Gerry lookalike? The other e-fit is completely different. I'm not saying that he's deliberately trying to pin it on Gerry. I'm just saying that after seeing Gerry carrying the child it's influenced the portrait more than what it would have done otherwise. If it was suppressed, perhaps that was the reasoning behind it, because it wasn't very credible. Now it might have been released in the hope that someone will come forward like they've done with the Tanner sighting. If the Smiths' sighting person can be ruled out too, then they know the abduction could have been earlier.

How credible were these other efits? http://www.findmadeleine.com. I think they were there before the new one was released. Who decides what's credible or not? The McCanns? Obviously SY thinks it's credible. What other info was suppressed by the McCanns when M15 was investigating? This is where SY got their efit.

 

[~n/t~]

No reason it couldn't have been earlier now, IMO. Is there any evidence that the abductor walked the straightest route the fastest possible way from 5A to the sighting? He could have hidden somewhere for a while to do whatever.

Good point.

 

[haden]

Where did you get this information regarding 3 teams? This is the first I've heard of an independent team working the case. Who are they?

There are few news reports about this, from Portugal.

There is Scotland Yard team, then the PJ team of 6 people working with Scotland Yard. So, that is two teams.
On the side there is another independent PJ team in Oporto, which was researching the case files in past 2 years and lead to reopening the case, this team is under the supervision of inspector Helena Monteiro.

Info here
http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/portugal-orders-re-opening-of-madeleine-case/29711

Portugal orders re-opening of Madeleine case

BY BRENDAN DE BEER, IN NEWS · 24-10-2013 07:46:00 · 6 COMMENTS

Interest in the case of Madeleine McCann, missing since 3 May 2007, has gained renewed impetus following news on Thursday that the Portuguese Attorney-General’s office had ordered the re-opening of the case it shelved in July 2008 due to lack of evidence.

Portugal orders re-opening of Madeleine case

Portuguese authorities have ordered the re-opening of the case into disappearance of Madeleine McCann. It has also emerged that police in Portugal have excluded the possibility of Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, of having had any involvement in their daughter's disappearance.

A statement sent to The Portugal News explained: “The Public Prosecutor’s Office has determined the re-opening of the inquiry relating to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann following a proposal by the Polícia Judiciária and due to the presentation of new elements which justify the continuation of the investigation.”

While a case review has been underway in Portugal since January 2012, led by leading missing persons detective Helena Monteiro and her team in Oporto, official lines of inquiry were closed in the summer of 2008 by the Attorney-General’s office. At the time, the office said that the case would only be re-opened “should new evidence emerge.”

Reports this week had indicated that the PJ Police, perhaps as a result of headway made following last week’s Crimewatch programme on the BBC, felt they now had enough new evidence to initiate an official line of inquiry that could include the questioning of persons of interest and possible suspects.


It is believed the PJ team in Oporto uncovered shortcomings in the initial investigation conducted by their counterparts in the Algarve and were now actively pursuing the theory that Madeleine McCann was abducted from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz. Helena Monteiro and her four-man team of detectives, who were handed the case due to their expertise and neutrality, having never worked on it before, are also reported to be keen on speaking to a number of people who were never questioned during the first investigation led by inspectors in the Algarve.

At the time, sources close to the case in Portugal told The Portugal News that they support the Portuguese review in that they hope it will conclude “an investigation which was ended while still in its infancy.”

Any new leads into Madeleine’s disappearance can only be considered by Portuguese police detectives once the case is active once again, which might explain the call by the PJ to have the case re-opened.

While Oporto detectives have been working on a review of existing evidence, six detectives from the PJ’s branch in Faro have been assisting their colleagues from Scotland Yard in the ambit of an international co-operation request based on the issuing of rogatory letters. PJ police in Lisbon stressed in comments to The Portugal News that at this stage of the review, the PJ branches in Oporto and Faro are “working independently.”

Following the heightened interest in Madeleine McCann’s disappearance following last Monday’s Crimewatch programme, detectives from Operation Grange said this week they had received over 2,400 calls and emails into the Incident Room since their appeal for information. Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood travelled to Holland and Germany to appear on programmes there to repeat the appeal he issued in the UK.

He said on Monday: “I appeared on the programmes to directly appeal for the public’s help on the significant lines of enquiry. Over 350 people have phoned into the studio of Opsporing Verzocht in Holland and 500 in Germany through Aktenzeichen XY. He added: “Those enquiries are now being assessed and prioritised. Any deemed high being actioned. We have been very pleased with the information that is coming into the Incident Room. All of that material will be prioritised and actioned by the Operation Grange team.

The next stage of the appeal will be in Ireland later in the month.” It is estimated that Operation Grange has cost British taxpayers more than five million pounds and reportedly boasts 37 officials who are working on the review. According to the remit issued at its launch, investigators were told “to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter. Whilst ordinarily a review has no investigative remit whatsoever - the scale and extent of this enquiry cannot permit for such an approach.”

In a related story, Met Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe has this week admitted it would have been “very difficult” for officers in Praia da Luz to know whether they were dealing with a serious crime immediately after the little girl vanished. Speaking on LBC 97.3, he said: “I think sometimes these things at the beginning can be very difficult to deal with, you don’t know exactly if the child has just wandered off. It can be very difficult to know if you’ve got a very serious crime. “I’m sure for them that must have been a challenge. Anybody can go back after two, three, five, six years and say ‘why didn’t you do that’? That’s easy in hindsight. “We don’t like it when it happens to the Met, and I’m certainly not going to do it to the Portuguese. What I’m determined to do is to work together to make sure we’ve got the best chance to now try to get to the bottom of this terrible tragedy.

“There is a poor family there who’ve got the torture of not knowing whether their daughter is alive or not.” Madeleine McCann disappeared from Praia da Luz on 3 May 2007 from an apartment where she was sleeping with her younger twin brother and sister while her parents dined at a nearby restaurant.

 

[Pisces Cloud]

How credible were these other efits? http://www.findmadeleine.com. I think they were there before the new one was released. Who decides what's credible or not? The McCanns? Obviously SY thinks it's credible. What other info was suppressed by the McCanns when M15 was investigating? This is where SY got their efit.

I thought the e-fit was done sometime after Smith caught sight of Gerry carrying his child off the plane? Smith contacted the police about this some months after his initial statement. Now, all of a sudden the e-fit is beginning to look like Gerry, after he sees Gerry carrying the child in a similar way. If I was a police officer that would make me feel sceptical too, especially as he seems to be the only Smith who's described him as being a Gerry lookalike. We've now got a new investigation, no nearer to finding out the truth and so the picture's been released again. Probably to see if anyone comes forward like they've done with regards to the Tanner sighting.

 

[Inana]

Thought I'd add this little bit of info about the Smith sighting, although I know there are those who will not believe it.

"Smith has since stressed that he does not believe the man he saw was Gerry, and Scotland Yard do not consider this a possibility. Last week the McCanns were told officially by the Portuguese authorities that they are not suspects." 10-27-1013


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id232.html http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/National/article1332689.ece

 

[Inana]

I've always believed that both Tanner and Smith were being truthful and that both saw a man with Madeleine.

Now I'm turning to the belief that both saw a man with a child, but NEITHER were Madeleine and both were simply a man with his own child. We now know Tanner did see a man who has been since been identified and discounted. Maybe the same can be said for the Smith sighting. In a tourist town, it is quite possible.

Just my own opinion. Any thoughts?

 

[~n/t~]

I thought the e-fit was done sometime after Smith caught sight of Gerry carrying his child off the plane? Smith contacted the police about this some months after his initial statement. Now, all of a sudden the e-fit is beginning to look like Gerry, after he sees Gerry carrying the child in a similar way. If I was a police officer that would make me feel sceptical too, especially as he seems to be the only Smith who's described him as being a Gerry lookalike. We've now got a new investigation, no nearer to finding out the truth and so the picture's been released again. Probably to see if anyone comes forward like they've done with regards to the Tanner sighting.

Yes it was done after but was suppressed for all these years. My question remains as to why? Also why did SY release it? Obviously they thought it was important to do so regardless of whether one thinks it looks like Gerry or not. The got hundreds of tips from releasing it ( I don't recall the exact number). They concluded that it needed to be released whereas the McCanns didn't think it was credible or important. Why?

 

[~n/t~]

Thought I'd add this little bit of info about the Smith sighting, although I know there are those who will not believe it.

"Smith has since stressed that he does not believe the man he saw was Gerry, and Scotland Yard do not consider this a possibility. Last week the McCanns were told officially by the Portuguese authorities that they are not suspects." 10-27-1013


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id232.html http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/National/article1332689.ece

So he retracted his statement so it was ok to release the efit That's how I'm interpreting it. The McCanns are ok with it now, apparently.

 

[haden]

I've always believed that both Tanner and Smith were being truthful and that both saw a man with Madeleine.

Now I'm turning to the belief that both saw a man with a child, but NEITHER were Madeleine and both were simply a man with his own child. We now know Tanner did see a man who has been since been identified and discounted. Maybe the same can be said for the Smith sighting. In a tourist town, it is quite possible.

Just my own opinion. Any thoughts?

There was lots of talks in the media about the person with the child.
If anyone has carried a child that night, they should come forward there and then.
Person not coming forward to say 'it was me' is just very odd.
It is not like it was happening in New York, it happened in a small village.
Why anyone carrying a child would simply not say they were there with a child that night? That would help the investigation a lot!

 

[Pisces Cloud]

I've always believed that both Tanner and Smith were being truthful and that both saw a man with Madeleine.

Now I'm turning to the belief that both saw a man with a child, but NEITHER were Madeleine and both were simply a man with his own child. We now know Tanner did see a man who has been since been identified and discounted. Maybe the same can be said for the Smith sighting. In a tourist town, it is quite possible.

Just my own opinion. Any thoughts?

For me, it would depend on whether or not the Smith sighting was anywhere near the car-park, as I think that is where Madeleine was taken to.

 

[Inana]

So he retracted his statement so it was ok to release the efit That's how I'm interpreting it. The McCanns are ok with it now, apparently.

I don't understand your meaning. ?