Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #35

[Mex]

We all had sight of it, in various TV progs shown in June or July 2020. That was obviously part of the prosecutor office's strategy.

With respect we most definitely have not had sight of the evidence which convinced those who have that CB is a suspect in MM's murder.
As far as I can tell - the only one.

At the conclusion of the search of the Arade dam we were promised immediate information if nothing was found and nothing if something was. To date we have been told nothing. Which is suggestive of the latter circumstance and results of forensics being awaited.

I think that is more important than cryptic letters to the editor from the only suspect in murder and attempts at misinterpreting the bias reported in the MSM which starts and ends with CB.

 

[Davieson]

I don’t think the alibi will be important. None of us could prove where we were 9-10pm on 3.5.07. (Maybe with a laptop from the time.) It would only be significant if he was questioned within a week of the crime.

The Defence won’t put CB on the stand to give evidence of his movements. They will put Lena on the stand to question her about his activities & demeanour in that time. She will be asked if there was a night she expected him and he didn’t come.

What will be more significant is what his mobile phone records show. Can they plot his movements that week? They have witness evidence of him stalking the apartment. Will the phone evidence support that?

The Prosecution may wish to focus on murder but they will also be conscious of setting out a narrative that is persuasive to the Judge, McCanns and the public.

Are these records available? Has his phone even been positively identified?

 

[Davieson]

I agree. Giving a recorded interview, even a softball MWT interview, is potentially a very stupid thing to do - especially because it gives insight into demeanour and other intangibles.

Would CB be allowed to do a recorded interview while in prison ?

 

[Mex]

There is no reasonable basis to claim police expected to find 2-3 bodies in the lake unless police told the journalist that, based on evidence in the investigation.

Certainly there is no reason to think Inga Gehricke and others would be found there. As has been discussed before, there is no actual evidence linking CB to those cases. IIRC police do not believe CB is involved in them.

Thank you for expressing your opinion which is apparently at variance with police investigators from one end of Europe to the other over quite a long period.

 

[mrjitty]

Are these records available? Has his phone even bee positively identified?

This perfectly illustrates one of the issues, if CB were actually innocent.

High chance the defence does not have these phone records, so might, from memory, lay out a timeline with inaccuracies which the prosecution can then pounce on due to discrepancy with phone records.

Whereas via discovery, the defence gets access to the records as a memory prompt - which is fair after 16 years.

An example of why we don't allow trial by ambush

 

[mrjitty]

Thank you for expressing your opinion which is apparently at variance with police investigators from one end of Europe to the other over quite a long period.

So are you saying investigators said to Olive Press that they did expect to find 2-3 bodies?

Seems to be quite a big miss then.

Or do we think the claim was not well sourced?

 

[mrjitty]

I an bemused that the suspect who you think has no incentive to avoid arrest because he is already in jail, is showing herculean effort in avoiding his court date for the crimes for which he is already indicted.

The difference being he was charged in the latter 5 cases, but not in the MM case. So of course in a case where you are actually charged, your defence team start in on procedural arguments.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

If it's the pic of two letters I've seen next to one another, I don't think either of them are the ones written to MWT. One is in German, written I think to Nick Pisa and the one in English is to BS and IM.

That’s what I wanted to check. The media use any old image to support what’s being said.

 

[mrjitty]

What's odd to me about last week is investigators are only just doing this search now when surely the criminal associates we are familiar with have known about this connection all along?

Also the new rent-a-quote stuff about the sinister lair generated by the publicity is not new - reported years back.

So why did this only recently become a solid idea?

I also think it is pretty clear they need the body, or some trace of her, to connect CB to the murder. Was this the break in the case they have been after?

 

[RichardKimble]

What's odd to me about last week is investigators are only just doing this search now when surely the criminal associates we are familiar with have known about this connection all along?

Also the new rent-a-quote stuff about the sinister lair generated by the publicity is not new - reported years back.

So why did this only recently become a solid idea?

I also think it is pretty clear they need the body, or some trace of her, to connect CB to the murder. Was this the break in the case they have been after?

This is why I suspect it's the last throw, four searches now, Grange, wells, allotments and now the latest, there are a multitude of deposition sites at ones disposal, all cannot be searched.

 

[jbinator]

If you read back through HW comments two to three years ago. It’s clear he bought this case to public attention needing to know locations CB lived so they can search there.

I imagine that is due to the evidence they have.

 

[RichardKimble]

If you read back through HW comments two to three years ago. It’s clear he bought this case to public attention needing to know locations CB lived so they can search there.

I imagine that is due to the evidence they have.

Or places that evidence might be there.

 

[Pixie Child]

Are these records available? Has his phone even been positively identified?

Police would have to request metadata info from Vodafone. Phone companies are only required to keep data for 2 years so it’s a long shot. If BKA got them from BND, then they wouldn’t use them in Court. They may just have whatever was downloaded from the Luz tower at the time. I don’t know what might be got from a SIM.

They have 2 numbers - the -683 number and the one he gave to police at the airport on 9/5.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

What's odd to me about last week is investigators are only just doing this search now when surely the criminal associates we are familiar with have known about this connection all along?

Also the new rent-a-quote stuff about the sinister lair generated by the publicity is not new - reported years back.

So why did this only recently become a solid idea?

I also think it is pretty clear they need the body, or some trace of her, to connect CB to the murder. Was this the break in the case they have been after?

I think Superdad’s observation on the timing was good - one year clear of the statute of limitations.

It’s said MC’s tip off was from the criminal underworld. CB did mix in criminal circles. It stands to reason that someone with info may have had self protection in mind, which is no longer an issue.

I don’t think any evidence of the body will ever be found so I doubt CB will face trial.

 

[RichardKimble]

It's all well and good arguing his defence case for him. Probably best to leave that to Fulscher... and Schwenn... and Marquot... and whomever else he's got waiting in the wings to argue reasonable doubt over the Prosecutors case though.

How about bringing it back to basics and just giving a personal opinion based on what we know. Yes, none of us "know" whether CB is guilty. Yes, none of us "know" if CB has an alibi for the 3rd May 2007 between 9 and 10 pm. But based on all the things that we do "know", we all must have formed some "opinion". Whether we lean towards CB being guilty or innocent and (independently of that) whether we believe CB does or doesn't have an alibi for the quoted time period.

I know plenty of people "believe" CB is innocent and they would 100% put their name to that, but who here actually "believes" CB has a verifiable alibi for that time period (that he's just holding back until he gets charged)? Anyone...? Nobody...? Thought so.

Back to the very beginning, how was Madeleine secreted out of 5a, even Wolters hasn't come up with an answer, which child being seen carried around was Madeleine if any or was there an unseen carrier ,does the investigation gloss over this in only concentrating on the alleged murder and deposition site ?

 

[mrjitty]

Back to the very beginning, how was Madeleine secreted out of 5a, even Wolters hasn't come up with an answer, which child being seen carried around was Madeleine if any or was there an unseen carrier ,does the investigation gloss over this in only concentrating on the alleged murder and deposition site ?

Yes IMO - you have to because otherwise you have 2 abductor sightings and other theories to deal with and ruling those out is hard. Focussing on the murder short circuits all of that. e.g if they found evidence of the child in his camper van then you don't have to worry about 5a

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Police would have to request metadata info from Vodafone. Phone companies are only required to keep data for 2 years so it’s a long shot. If BKA got them from BND, then they wouldn’t use them in Court. They may just have whatever was downloaded from the Luz tower at the time. I don’t know what might be got from a SIM.

They have 2 numbers - the -683 number and the one he gave to police at the airport on 9/5.

The airport number was Augsburg Germany, probably AB’s number.

I think the only numbers they have are the ones for 2-4 May. IMO, there are probably more calls from 680 number during that period - probably prior to the 7:30pm call.

I don’t think SIM cards store call data but they may provide other useful info.

 

[C.greek]

The airport number was Augsburg Germany, probably AB’s number.

I think the only numbers they have are the ones for 2-4 May. IMO, there are probably more calls from 680 number during that period - probably prior to the 7:30pm call.

I don’t think SIM cards store call data but they may provide other useful info.

I think the 680 number has been corroborated by plenty of his 'friends'/associates. there was a while back a discussion on this, even articles in MSM saying that he always carried his mobile with him if I remember correctly, as quoted from MT

 

[mrjitty]

I think the 680 number has been corroborated by plenty of his 'friends'/associates. there was a while back a discussion on this, even articles in MSM saying that he always carried his mobile with him if I remember correctly, as quoted from MT

I wonder if they have been able to get all the call data for that phone?

Maybe tower data as well?

SMS data?

In the McStay family murders, they got the tower azimuths for calls 4 years later, but it turned out basic pings (i.e phone connects to tower but no call/sms) were only stored for 6 mths.

 

[Davieson]

Yes IMO - you have to because otherwise you have 2 abductor sightings and other theories to deal with and ruling those out is hard. Focussing on the murder short circuits all of that. e.g if they found evidence of the child in his camper van then you don't have to worry about 5a

That seems a bit short=sighted as there could potential be other people involved in removal of MM who would then go unpunished.
Even if CB did kill her, he might just be the last link in the chain of criminality