I agree they must have had something solid to get all that signed off.
Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #36
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I agree they must have had something solid to get all that signed off.
No it doesn't because at the time he gave the statement the event hadn't happened.
Is there any mention of it prior to the links we have from 2014? I definitely can't find one. There is just so much deliberate misinformation surrounding this case everything has to be taken with a pinch of salt unless verified.
Again what came first - the chicken or the egg? The information given was already in the public domain thanks to MC funding divers at the dam location so no cross check there.
I don't know if there is anything to wonder about that the information given in this letter and in MC's tip off makes reference to a different dam from the one searched in the current investigation.
Denis R Tandib
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Right.
I don’t know if there is a source before 2014 but that could just mean the gardener didn’t speak to the media before this date.
In my opinion, these two allegations about a dam are unrelated. The dam in the letter is Bravura and I think the lake is Oxiadere (Spelling??), that’s the area - @onemoremiletogo ? It’s probably no surprise to anyone on this forum that CB has been linked to this dam too. It was reported that he camped there regularly with a blonde haired friend around the time MM went missing.
It should also be remembered that MC was not given the Arafe location by name, rather, he was given a description, something along the lines of a lake with a beach. From the description he deduced that it was Arade but that doesn’t mean that it was.
To me, all this could mean nothing. Equally, where there is smoke there is fire. It sounds as though people (probably dodgy people) know what happened to MM, more than likely through rumours. I think it might well be that she will be found in or near a lake. Purely from the location point of view, it would most likely be Bravura.
Someone once asked asked what prompted Rebelo to order a second, more thorough search of Barragem da Bravura in mid October 2007. I believe they also said that it didn't rain on 2nd or 3rd May 2008 when the note was reportedly left outside 5a.
POLICE SEARCH LAKE FOR BODY
www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk
Okapi
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Aha. I’ve been mulling over this possibility lately, after the pictures and discussions about the holes and soil sampling. It seemed quite plausible that the investigators are searching for a site matching existing soil evidence acquired from CB’s vehicles, clothes or property. Which might then lead to a search zone and warrant to search for forensic evidence. As has been discussed here.mystery ( kind of ) solved!? "Cops hope to link soil found at the reservoir to Bruckner's van"
so they have his van (we know they examined it forensically a few months/ a year ago...), soil from his van, and photos all relating to MM jmo
Madeleine McCann cops testing key evidence for link to suspect's camper van
Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann think they have a good chance of proving Christian Bruckner's VW camper van was at the reservoirwww.mirror.co.uk
I wonder if Portugal has digital maps of the country’s soil types which LE has access to?
Other countries have developed these virtual maps/databases of soil systems to support land management stakeholders including agriculture and mineral resources. They can contain datasets of literally hundreds of soil profiles, across very specific locations. Down to metres as opposed to kilometres, it would seem.
In general (ie not specifically regarding this case) it is theoretically possible that LE could refer to these systems to rule out large tracts of land for searches (according to links). It’s an interesting subject. Apologies if it has already been discussed on earlier threads.
Meanwhile the drought continues and I see water restrictions have been instigated in the Algarve. The reservoirs are expected to be at minimum levels in the coming months, perhaps they will give up their ghosts.
Anyway, some links/excerpts including the KB case in Scotland, where this soil database approach was utilised.
“The INFOSOLO legacy database is the first effort to develop a soil information system in Portugal, suitable to compile soil data produced in the country, and to support stakeholders and land managers in decision-making. The current version includes soil data from a set of 9934 horizons/layers studied in 3461 soil profiles across the country between 1966 and 2014.
https://data.isric.org/geonetwork/srv/api/records/25d0cf4d-1865-4d2a-be32-40a1b2483936
“De Caritat said predictive provenancing using existing digital soil maps has never been put forward before in a forensic application and offers an “effective desktop method of ruling out vast areas of territory for forensic search” as soon as a soil analysis is available. The research builds on an earlier paper he coauthored in which the method reduced the search area for soil samples by up to 90%.”
Predictive Forensics Helps Determine Where Soil Samples Came From - Eos
“A few years ago, scientists might only have been be able to say that someone had walked in an area the size of a square mile whereas today— thanks to Lorna’s work—it’s down to a few feet. In Scotland, scientists are using increasingly sophisticated technology to create virtual maps of the country’s 300,000 (and counting) different soil characteristics”.
Meet the soil detective solving Britain's coldest cases - Reader's Digest
Adelaidean -- Making soil talk: New forensics discipline helps solve major crime
Plants have helped detectives catch murderers including serial killer Ted Bundy
“Scientists at the National Centre for Forensic Studies at the University of Canberra have taken the first steps in developing a new method of identifying the movements of criminals using chemical analysis of soil and dust found on equipment, clothing and cars. The locating system allows police or security services to match soil remnants found on personal items to regional soil samples, to either implicate or eliminate presence at a crime scene.
…
“We've done the first trials to see if geochemical analysis could narrow down a search area. We took a 260 km2 area of North Canberra and divided it into cells (squares) of 1 km x 1 km, and sampled the soil in each cell. We were then given 3 samples from within the survey area, and asked to identify which grid cells they came from. This was a 'blind' experiment, in other words we did not know where the samples came from until the end of the experiment. For comparison, Manhattan Island is around 60 km2, so that shows that we looked at a pretty big area," Dr. Patrice de Caritat, lead author of the open access study published in the Journal of Forensic Sciences, said.
“Using these methods, they were able to eliminate 60% of the territory under investigation.
…
"Much of forensics is about elimination, so being able to rule out 60% of an area is a substantial contribution toward successfully locating a sample. You can reduce the time, risk and investment of the ongoing investigation. The more parameters we look at, the more accurate the system is. We have reached 90% detection in some cases, although we think that would involve too many factors for real-world crime detection."
“The team also notes the great potential of environmental DNA in tracking the provenance of soil samples. Derived from plants growing or animals living in the upper layers of a soil profile, traces of preserved DNA can help to pinpoint the provenance of samples besides chemical and mineralogical analysis.
“In the past, investigators were limited in the number of soil samples they can collect in the field and process. However, using special software, modern computer networks, and relying on existing databases, with samples derived from mineral exploration, agriculture, environmental monitoring, or land use development, researchers now can compare multiple samples of unknown origin with many data points covering larger areas.
"This shows that our systems work, and that we have a potential new tool for criminal and intelligence investigations. It's the next stage which is potentially most interesting. Most developed countries have existing soil databases, used for such things as mineral exploration or land use decision support. We're plugging our methods into these databases to see if we can locate samples from the database information, rather than needing to collect samples specifically for each investigation."
New Method To Identify Dirt Helps Track Criminals
Predictive Forensics Helps Determine Where Soil Samples Came From - Eos
How soil expert helped police catch evil killer of Glasgow student
onemoremiletogo
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It's Odiáxere. Small village on the N125 (national road) that runs west<->east through the whole Algarve region. Odi from river.
Barragem da Bravura is also known as Barragem de Odiáxere and is a stunning lake.
From what I recall, I guess the letter, written in portuguese, in 5A door was in May 2008(?!) referring Barragem da Bravura ("again" from Correia?).
I'm a little confused about other lake or lakes?
In 2007, I'm not sure if that letter sent to the newspaper De Telegraaf was really related with MM, allegedly identifying where the girl's body had been buried. Under rocks in deserted area, in Odiáxere, northeast and about nine miles from PdL.
I don't think there can ever have been a case more polluted by factoids than this one. Even the link you have provided on the dam Misty, repeats some of the prevailing ones of that time, including
_____________________
Today a forensic expert is expected to reveal that a bloody footprint was discovered in the McC apartment, outside MM's bedroom, matching a mark on their hire car.
******
Portuguese police believe the mark on the vehicle, which had no trace of blood on it, could be consistent with someone loading something heavy into the boot.
*****
The reservoir at the centre of the latest search, reported in the Diario de Noticias newspaper yesterday, is in scrubland close to the town of Odiaxere - where a hunt for MM was carried out in June.
The search followed a tip-off to a Dutch newspaper that her body was hidden in undergrowth and buried under a pile of rocks. Police found nothing.
_____________________
POLICE SEARCH LAKE FOR BODY
www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk
There was no bloody footprint outside the bedroom door and no way for police to know if informants were acting in good faith until they'd spent a lot of time chasing information up.
My suspicion is that the letter outside five A is out of the 'bloody footprint' stable.
Police investigating Madeleine McCann's disappearance 'to compare soil samples from Algarve reservoir with dirt found in prime suspect Christian Brueckner's van' after last month's large-scale hunt
- Police hope soil analysis will prove Christian Brueckner's VW was at the reservoir
- Sources say it would be a 'slight setback' if the lab does not find a sample match
Investigators are comparing soil samples collected during the recent search for Madeleine McCann with dirt found on the prime suspect's camper van, it has emerged. Police dug eight deep holes (pictured) to collect samples of soil during their search last month
Investigators conducting soil sample analysis in Madeleine McCann case
Investigators are comparing soil samples collected during the recent search for Madeleine McCann with dirt found on the prime suspect's camper van, it has emerged.
Denis R Tandib
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I don’t want to sound too pessimistic but getting any credible evidence by linking the soil at Arade to CB’s VW appears to be a long shot.
Not sure about the reporting but wasn’t it 2015 when CB sold the van and 2020 before the BKA acquired it. That’s 13 years of rain and washing, five of which CB didn’t even own the van? How could anything have survived let alone be linked to CB? Even if there is evidence, he could just say that if didn’t get there when he owned the car!
On another note, I am reminded on when @Superdad mentioned that he could see blonde hair in the wheel arch of CB’s van and that he was convinced that the wheel itself had been doctored by Photoshop. It was the three-fingered salute image of CB published (then quickly removed) by Bild. If there is potentially blood on the underside of CB’s van, there could be more to this.
Not sure about the reporting but wasn’t it 2015 when CB sold the van and 2020 before the BKA acquired it. That’s 13 years of rain and washing, five of which CB didn’t even own the van? How could anything have survived let alone be linked to CB? Even if there is evidence, he could just say that if didn’t get there when he owned the car!
On another note, I am reminded on when @Superdad mentioned that he could see blonde hair in the wheel arch of CB’s van and that he was convinced that the wheel itself had been doctored by Photoshop. It was the three-fingered salute image of CB published (then quickly removed) by Bild. If there is potentially blood on the underside of CB’s van, there could be more to this.
Denis R Tandib
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Re the above, this was one of the original posts including the Der Spiegel photo. Front wheel arch at two o’clock.
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Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #20
The thing is, CB is a known burglar who had a cache of stolen goods and various passports up in the rafters that his mates destroyed at his request. Any media footage that LE may now have, CB could say as an alibi that the footage is linked to a device that he had stolen at some point. As...
www.websleuths.com
Chiatos
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Isn't it curious to see that 3 out of 8 holes have been made very near to each other and that the holes are actually not that deep?Police investigating Madeleine McCann's disappearance 'to compare soil samples from Algarve reservoir with dirt found in prime suspect Christian Brueckner's van' after last month's large-scale hunt
View attachment 426638Investigators are comparing soil samples collected during the recent search for Madeleine McCann with dirt found on the prime suspect's camper van, it has emerged. Police dug eight deep holes (pictured) to collect samples of soil during their search last month
- Police hope soil analysis will prove Christian Brueckner's VW was at the reservoir
- Sources say it would be a 'slight setback' if the lab does not find a sample match
Investigators conducting soil sample analysis in Madeleine McCann case
Investigators are comparing soil samples collected during the recent search for Madeleine McCann with dirt found on the prime suspect's camper van, it has emerged.www.dailymail.co.uk
Yes because they are going back to only 16 years . They dug even deeper than required lmo to be on the safe side.
soil is accumulated in levels that can be seen as well in these pics if you look closer.
Soil samples can be dated quite precisely nowadays. I am sure BKA know that when they got permission to dig and search in the Arade.
Perhaps in the soil they have found in his van there are specific traces that allow them to date the soil...
In quite plain language
Mud can be thought of as a slice of Battenberg cake in which layers of inorganic material, including base rock minerals and organic matter such as fallen leaves, twigs and vegetation, build up in identifiable components. This information acts like signatures, which can be read to reveal what was at the site yesterday, last week and as far back as 200 years ago.
Meet the soil detective solving Britain's coldest cases - Reader's Digest
Could mud be the key to solving the country’s coldest murder cases? One forensic soil scientist certainly thinks so…
www.google.com
RSBM
I don't think that is the reason to dig so deep. Soil is built up or eroded by geophysical processes e.g. like rivers and wind.
Seems unlikely much if any soil is built up in that area - more likely eroded.
Tekno
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‘Mud can be thought of as a slice of Battenberg cake in which layers of inorganic material, including base rock minerals and organic matter such as fallen leaves, twigs and vegetation, build up in identifiable components. This information acts like signatures, which can be read to reveal what was at the site yesterday, last week and as far back as 200 years ago.’Yes because they are going back to only 16 years . They dug even deeper than required lmo to be on the safe side.
soil is accumulated in levels that can be seen as well in these pics if you look closer.
Soil samples can be dated quite precisely nowadays. I am sure BKA know that when they got permission to dig and search in the Arade.
Perhaps in the soil they have found in his van there are specific traces that allow them to date the soil...
In quite plain language
Mud can be thought of as a slice of Battenberg cake in which layers of inorganic material, including base rock minerals and organic matter such as fallen leaves, twigs and vegetation, build up in identifiable components. This information acts like signatures, which can be read to reveal what was at the site yesterday, last week and as far back as 200 years ago.
Meet the soil detective solving Britain's coldest cases - Reader's Digest
Could mud be the key to solving the country’s coldest murder cases? One forensic soil scientist certainly thinks so…
Yes, in the same way Archeologists approach excavation sites.
Not really. The fact they have dug at the same depth signifies they were going down layers. You can even see the layers in the pics - I can identify at least two (look for the colour and grain difference)
Indeed, and having trained as an archaeologist I think I can understand the process of soil sampling though 16 years is very modern!
Maybe - but those layers were unlikely to be created in the last 16 years unless the lake was up that far
Building layers of sediment requires a physical process like waves, water, wind
e.g in 16 years a dune can easily be built on a beach by wind and wave action
I doubt a foot of soil was added in that location over 2 decades - how would it happen
that's why I said they dug too deep in my opinion.
eta this area was supposedly covered with trees and shrubs, so difficult to have erosion there, much more possible to have deposition
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Not necessarily, as if something they found at the box factory has soil samples on it they may be testing to see if it has been moved.
Same with clothing etc,
Soil sampling on fabric can even show if a body has been dragged or placed.
CB wouldn’t have accounted for that and liked keeping trophy’s…
Same with clothing etc,
Soil sampling on fabric can even show if a body has been dragged or placed.
CB wouldn’t have accounted for that and liked keeping trophy’s…
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