Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #36

[misty48]

Apologies if this has been posted before (it's 13 days old) but would one of our German speakers please confirm that HCW is saying the reservoir search is not related to CB?

 

[Mex]

So are you saying that collecting soil was the primary reason for the search.

Immediately prior to the search, I think we were all expecting they were searching for the gravesite (apart from JC who thought they’d found a graveyard!).

Why in retrospect are we thinking it is something else? HCW has said in the past “no body parts,” they could have info that suggests she was dismembered or cremated.

Immediately prior to the search I was expecting lots of activity under the waters of the dam and lots of divers. We knew there would be some land based searching, but I wonder how many of us were expecting the volume we witnessed. I certainly wasn’t. And I didn’t see any of the activity I thought I would see on the water.

I wasn’t holding out any hope for the remains of a petite three year old being findable after sixteen years. Particularly if she had fallen into the hands of a forensics savvy beast intent on her disposal and with a vast area from which to choose for a deposition site.

The expert investigators have decided the best course of action to help in solving this case involves testing the soil. To do that, they had to dig it up first. We may have found that a bit unusual. But there was a time when lifting fingerprints was unusual. It isn’t now so I think horses for courses is the motivation you are asking for.

The poignancy that we think that what may be happening here is a search for a stain in the ground which might be all that is left of a fragile and much loved child is incomprehensible.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Apologies if this has been posted before (it's 13 days old) but would one of our German speakers please confirm that HCW is saying the reservoir search is not related to CB?

According to google translate, he is saying that the search is not based on clues or a tip-off from CB. He did say that CB is still under suspicion for MM's disappearance. He essentially said the same as has been reported in English MSM.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Immediately prior to the search I was expecting lots of activity under the waters of the dam and lots of divers. We knew there would be some land based searching, but I wonder how many of us were expecting the volume we witnessed. I certainly wasn’t. And I didn’t see any of the activity I thought I would see on the water.

I wasn’t holding out any hope for the remains of a petite three year old being findable after sixteen years. Particularly if she had fallen into the hands of a forensics savvy beast intent on her disposal and with a vast area from which to choose for a deposition site.

The expert investigators have decided the best course of action to help in solving this case involves testing the soil. To do that, they had to dig it up first. We may have found that a bit unusual. But there was a time when lifting fingerprints was unusual. It isn’t now so I think horses for courses is the motivation you are asking for.

The poignancy that we think that what may be happening here is a search for a stain in the ground which might be all that is left of a fragile and much loved child is incomprehensible.

Watch the above clip. He gives very little away but states that bones and fragments of clothing could be found after 16 years.

I'm certain they were hopeful of finding the body, it makes no sense to have such a large operation for soil samples.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Did he have anywhere inside to take her? The motor home was at Villa Bianco & NF’s daughter was close by.

Then there’s the cottage but he wasn’t renting that any more. Could he have gone back? Risk of being seen.

He may not have had any choice but to keep MM in the VW and go somewhere quiet. Arade seems a bit touristy. Risk of someone hearing a screaming child.

I wonder where that land is that DF said he & NF owned.

So we know from HCW's statements that no forensics were found in the VW.

The suggestion of soil samples likely means they are trying to find DNA evidence to link to MM, whether blood or bone fragments. These two points suggest that the crime scene was outdoors.

It's possible but seems unlikely. If you think a location is remote enough to abuse and murder a child but not remote enough as a disposal site. Why take the extra risk of transferring DNA from the crime scene to the van and then risk being spotted at the ultimate disposal site?

If this was the crime scene and the disposal site is elsewhere, I cannot for one second believe this was a planned crime.

 

[Mex]

Watch the above clip. He gives very little away but states that bones and fragments of clothing could be found after 16 years.

I'm certain they were hopeful of finding the body, it makes no sense to have such a large operation for soil samples.

It was too targeted for me to be a random search for bone fragments. They knew exactly the areas they wanted to excavate and probably what they were looking for. The holes they left behind were very localised. No sifting of the ground there for scattered remains, a pin pointed dig.

 

[Mex]

So we know from HCW's statements that no forensics were found in the VW.

The suggestion of soil samples likely means they are trying to find DNA evidence to link to MM, whether blood or bone fragments. These two points suggest that the crime scene was outdoors.

It's possible but seems unlikely. If you think a location is remote enough to abuse and murder a child but not remote enough as a disposal site. Why take the extra risk of transferring DNA from the crime scene to the van and then risk being spotted at the ultimate disposal site?

If this was the crime scene and the disposal site is elsewhere, I cannot for one second believe this was a planned crime.

My opinion leaned towards the crime against MM being a planned one very shortly after becoming familiar with the case.

My opinion is that the location was a factor determining that sooner or later a child would be taken from there when the child and the circumstances dictated.

Unfortunately that happened with the unwitting help of the child care arrangement of that week in May.

The admission of RH that he had seen MM on two occasions is an interesting one particularly as his wife was German.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

HCW: We assume the girl is dead.
Was there any news reporting HCW has commented that there is no chance the girl would have resisted? To what? If they have a photo, what that could be?
I do not find anything, maybe just a turbid thought.

 

[Chiatos]

Apologies if this has been posted before (it's 13 days old) but would one of our German speakers please confirm that HCW is saying the reservoir search is not related to CB?

HCW said that CB was not the one who had provided information for which they are searching in that area.
(Therefore someone else had led them to that area.)
For the rest HCW would not disclose what exactly they were looking for.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

It was too targeted for me to be a random search for bone fragments. They knew exactly the areas they wanted to excavate and probably what they were looking for. The holes they left behind were very localised. No sifting of the ground there for scattered remains, a pin pointed dig.

You don’t think they were looking for the body then?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

My opinion leaned towards the crime against MM being a planned one very shortly after becoming familiar with the case.

My opinion is that the location was a factor determining that sooner or later a child would be taken from there when the child and the circumstances dictated.

Unfortunately that happened with the unwitting help of the child care arrangement of that week in May.

The admission of RH that he had seen MM on two occasions is an interesting one particularly as his wife was German.

IMO, if it was a planned abduction we can rule out exit of 5A by the window, escape on foot and outside crime scene.

The only thing that suggest it was planned IMO, is that the body hasn’t been found which could be luck.

 

[Chiatos]

Has this already been posted?

In December 2007 a British couple found a memorial site for Maddie at the lake (fresh flowers+photo of Maddie+stone). They shot some photos and reported to PJ but received no response from PJ.

A few days after their find, the couple returned to the site and discovered that the memorial had been removed.

In 2020, after BKA's appeal they reported their find to German LE, who promptly responded.

Fall Maddie McCann: Paar entdeckte schon 2007 mysteriösen Maddie-Schrein am Arade-Stausee

Sie schießen Fotos und geben der portugiesischen Polizei Bescheid, danach hören sie nie wieder etwas von den Beamten. Doch jetzt ein Anruf aus Deutschland.

www.rtl.de

 

[JB1510]

From Jutta Rabe.

Maddie McCann suspect Christian B compared himself to a terrorist in cartoon

THE prime suspect in the Madeleine McCann case compared himself to a terrorist in a vile cartoon. Rapist Christian B’s sketch gives an insight into his warped mind. His scribble of a twisted …

www.thescottishsun.co.uk

With reference to the documentary in the link is this a new one coming out or the one previous from Jetta Rabe ?

He has been communicating with producer Jutta Rabe, the lead investigator on German channel SAT1’s documentary The Case of Madeleine McCann : New Leads.

 

[mrjitty]

Anything is possible but I doubt Arade is appropriate for 2. If you were going to subject a child to abuse, I think you would do it somewhere inside. People may disagree but his known serious crimes occurred indoors, only the opportunist offences happened outside.

I see others have covered this, but frequently the victim is abducted to a secluded outdoor location. This is likely because the offender does not have an indoor location, and/or is worried about forensics. The location will be an area that the offender knows well, and is comfortable there. I agree it does not fit with his MO in the rape case(s)

I can’t understand why he would drive for 50 mins to a remote location to abuse and/or murder MM outside and then pack her body up and take her somewhere else for disposal.

Arcade makes more sense as location 3 or location 2 and 3 combined IMO.

Whoever Fights Monsters is a really interesting book on the development of FBI profiling, and is worth a read on these topics.

The thing is the body is often simply dumped. There is an assumption in this case that the offender conceals the body like some kind of forensic expert, simply because it is not found. But often bodies are not found simply by bad luck, and the fact that the wilderness is a big place.

So he may have driven the 50km because it made sense to him, but then wanted to dump the body in a place not connected to him. For example, if he simply put the body in a dumpster, it likely would never be found.

 

[Okapi]

You don’t think they were looking for the body then?

It may not have been either/or, but both.

Going back to the search for rags, the ‘she did not scream’ comment and the possibility of photos at the dam. A rag used as a gag may have been sighted in a photo. It’s a pitiful image, apologies.

 

[Tekno]

With reference to the documentary in the link is this a new one coming out or the one previous from Jetta Rabe ?

He has been communicating with producer Jutta Rabe, the lead investigator on German channel SAT1’s documentary The Case of Madeleine McCann : New Leads.

I think both. It’s referring to the Sat1 documentary in 2021 but also that she’s working on a new documentary.

 

[mrjitty]

Did he have anywhere inside to take her? The motor home was at Villa Bianco & NF’s daughter was close by.

Then there’s the cottage but he wasn’t renting that any more. Could he have gone back? Risk of being seen.

He may not have had any choice but to keep MM in the VW and go somewhere quiet. Arade seems a bit touristy. Risk of someone hearing a screaming child.

I wonder where that land is that DF said he & NF owned.

Right.

If you look at it as HCW creating a theory of the case, it makes some sense. CB doesn't appear to have had a fixed abode at the time. He went somewhere late at night where he believed he would be safe. But maybe he did not dispose of the body there because it is a place connected to him.

In a case I have mentioned here a few times, police had the correct theory that the body was dumped in water, but mistakenly assumed it must be a river or old quarry close at hand. In fact it was over 100km away. Without knowing exactly where to look, the body would not be found except by accident.

If CB was travelling somewhere else, the disposal site could actually be quite far from 5a

 

[Mex]

You don’t think they were looking for the body then?

When the tents went up initially the indication was there. But as a result of watching the procedures followed during the search, not specifically.

What about you? Animal, vegetable, mineral?

 

[RichardKimble]

HCW said that CB was not the one who had provided information for which they are searching in that area.
(Therefore someone else had led them to that area.)
For the rest HCW would not disclose what exactly they were looking for.

The reason for the other persons knowledge is possibly threefold, 1 an accomplish, 2 CB told this person, 3 this person is responsible for whatever they were looking for.imo

 

[Mex]

IMO, if it was a planned abduction we can rule out exit of 5A by the window, escape on foot and outside crime scene.

The only thing that suggest it was planned IMO, is that the body hasn’t been found which could be luck.

If the perpetrator acted alone, there are a few reasons for the window to be opened. Particularly if s/he were an agile young person for whom it was an MO.

If the perpetrator had an accomplice the child could have been passed through the window in an action lasting seconds.

The point you have made regarding the fact that MM vanished without trace is a valid one in the circumstances. When one remembers that JC also vanished without trace from a village in very close proximity to Luz the similarities in the conduct of both investigations are startling.

How Is The Disappearance Of Joana Cipriano Connected To Madeleine McCann? | Oxygen Official Site

Joana Cipriano was an 8-year-old girl with a playful smile and a tomboy haircut. One summer afternoon in 2004, she left her home in the small Portuguese village of Figueira to go to the store. She was never seen again.

www.oxygen.com