Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #36

[Zuleika]

It must exist if more than I in here recall it?
It was a female child being tortured imo rather than specifically MM .

 

[RichardKimble]

It must exist if more than I in here recall it?
It was a female child being tortured imo rather than specifically MM .

I recall more than one person recalling they've seen UFO's, doesn't make it so.

 

[RichardKimble]

It absolutely exists. It was in the early stages when he was criticized for saying Maddie was dead...he explained that they did not have absolute proof of death but that death was the only conclusion that could be drawn from their evidence

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[Mex]

Well the HB case was being mentioned in 2007, so it wasn't the BKA who unearthed that. And one of the other cases led to CB being extradited by the Portuguese back to Germany. So the BKA didn't unearth that case either. I think it's important to not exaggerate.

And nobody's stopping the German, British and Portuguese investigators. Three years of space they've had now since they went public. It's been six years or so since they first associated CB with MM. It's been 7 1/2 years since they searched one of the locations he was associated with and found the large haul of digital material.

That's a lot of time and space, but they're still unable to bring the evidence Wolters talked about in 2020 to a court. People are entitled to ask questions about why they can't. People are entitled to wonder if the reason they can't is because what Wolters said in June 2020 was simply wrong.

(The jurisdiction issue probably hasn't helped. And it's likely pandemic restrictions slowed investigation also. That's all true but so is that even with these problems it has been a lot of time and questions can be asked. Imo they should be asked)

I’m not sure you have the 2007 date quite right: the first mention I can see of the HB rape is a lot later in the time frame than that.
__________________________________________
Kate Connolly, and Mia Alberti in Portimão
Wed 22 Jul 2020
HB was alerted to the police appeal for new evidence in connection with CB, who was recently named as a main suspect in MM’s 2007 disappearance. She discovered the 43-year-old had recently been convicted of the rape of a 72-year-old American woman in Praia da Luz in 2005.

She told the Guardian in an interview she had been shocked at the similarities between the attack on the American and her own experience.

“My mind was blown when I read how he had attacked a woman in 2005, both the tactics and the methods he used, how well he had planned it out,” she said. “I puked to be honest with you, as reading about it took me right back to my experience.”

Met officers working on Operation Grange, the investigation into MM’s disappearance, interviewed HB at length and said they would contact Portuguese police. The move to retrieve the archived files came late last week.

Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner denied parole in Germany – report

The convicted sex offender was declared an official suspect by Portuguese authorities last month.

www.independent.co.uk

If memory serves me well I think you’ve also got the circumstances of the extradition for the rape of DM a little bit mixed up too.
Wasn’t he on the run at the time? I thought for drug offences, but on checking it wasn’t that.
I do know that the extradition from Italy to Germany caused a bit of controversy with his lawyer appealing on a technicality to the ECHR about the extradition. Didn’t work that time though.

2013​

McCanns appeal to the German public on TV for evidence over Madeleine’s disappearance. Brückner’s name crops up in connection with the case.

2017​

Convicted of sexual abuse of a child in Germany and sentenced to 15 months in prison.

2018​

Arrested in Milan and returned to Germany.

2019​

August – charged with the rape of a US citizen.

Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brückner: a timeline

German suspect’s previous convictions include sexual abuse of child and rape of woman, 72

www.theguardian.com

 

[Mex]

Well the HB case was being mentioned in 2007, so it wasn't the BKA who unearthed that. And one of the other cases led to CB being extradited by the Portuguese back to Germany. So the BKA didn't unearth that case either. I think it's important to not exaggerate.

And nobody's stopping the German, British and Portuguese investigators. Three years of space they've had now since they went public. It's been six years or so since they first associated CB with MM. It's been 7 1/2 years since they searched one of the locations he was associated with and found the large haul of digital material.

That's a lot of time and space, but they're still unable to bring the evidence Wolters talked about in 2020 to a court. People are entitled to ask questions about why they can't. People are entitled to wonder if the reason they can't is because what Wolters said in June 2020 was simply wrong.

(The jurisdiction issue probably hasn't helped. And it's likely pandemic restrictions slowed investigation also. That's all true but so is that even with these problems it has been a lot of time and questions can be asked. Imo they should be asked)

With reference to the other paragraphs of your post it is quite obvious that no one is stopping the international police investigations taking place.
We have all watched them in action and we are reliably informed there will be other phases of that strand of enquiry.

I wonder ~ why the impatience you display regarding a case which is still actively evidence gathering.
A lot of water has passed under the bridge since GA flagged up CB’s involvement as prime suspect in this case to which the jurisdiction issue is probably neither here nor there. Since there is obviously still work to be done with the time and space to do it. Pressure off.

The people who are directly affected by it are the victims of the five non-related cases where the work is finished ready for trial.
It seems that a facet of this case is that the victims having suffered will always have to suffer and continue to suffer.

The wonder too is that a case which was abandoned for lack of evidence in 2008 is still literally digging for evidence in 2023. It is noticeable that some of the five cases currently held up in the jurisdiction queue were also abandoned in their turn (I don't know about the two aggravated rapes) as was DM's.

My opinion

 

[Consider Dudley]

I agree. People should ask questions. How else would we ever get close to the truth about anything?

Believing what HCW has said despite how the investigation has unfolded is akin to continuing to drink the Koolaid IMO.

It’s not “drinking the kookaid” (derogatory inference) to be prepared as I am to give the Germans the benefit of the doubt until or unless there are solid reasons for not doing so. You will not get the answers you seek until the Germans choose to give them to you anyway so I don’t see the point in endlessly belittling or second guessing the investigation in the meantime.

 

[Anxala]

Not to undermine the seriousness of the alleged crime but two of those case don’t have identified victims… victims that haven’t come forward despite the global appeal. I can understand the difficulty victims of rape may have in coming forward but the facts, as we know them, are that CB was visible on the footage and we only know about these offences from two criminals - one of which is a convicted people smuggler and has a conviction for publicly assaulting a woman.

To say there are victims of five crime awaiting justice is inaccurate IMO.

Yes, I've always thought that too. 2 unknown females, no names, ages, nationalities, with dates of assault for both unknown (a 6yr timespan IIRC for when the assaults were carried out), and both on heresay only. No pics, videos, audio, nothing.

How do you take that to court?

 

[Anxala]

I think this is a case of Chinese whispers, and the meaning has been incorrectly inferred from statements paraphrased in media down the years.

Rather than ‘there’s no way she could have survived’ (inference: a horrific ordeal), I suspect it alludes more to ‘based on our corroborative evidence implicating CB in MM’s abduction, we think there is no chance she could have survived’ (inference: statistically speaking).

Because the odds of survival after abduction by an unknown paedophile are well known to be vanishingly small.

“We have no body and no DNA but we have other evidence. Based on the evidence we have, it leads to no other conclusion.

“I can’t tell you on which basis we assume she is dead. But for us, there’s no other possibility. There is no hope she is alive.”


Prosecutor '100% convinced' suspect abducted and murdered Madeleine McCann

I think you're correct. Another quote here which backs your Chinese whispers theory up as to what he actually said and how it's probably evolved over tabloid time -

Asked about saying Madeleine was killed quickly, he said: “That was private opinion and speculation... without facts. I said ‘I believe’ because in cases where children were kidnapped, they made a sexual crime then killed.’”

Madeleine McCann could be alive admits German prosecutor who said she was dead

EXCLUSIVE: Hans Wolters has confirmed that there is no forensic evidence to show Maddie is dead, days after devastated Kate and Gerry McCann begged for proof

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Mex]

I see both pov here, regarding the comparison between the OG and the German investigation.

Something JG said during OG’s investigation that struck me:

“It is important the Met don't share too much to put words in people's mouths because the evidence has to be sufficiently independent in order to be put before a court."

Madeleine McCann: German suspect profiled by former NI cop Gamble ... 'an end could be in sight' for heartbroken parents Gerry and Kate

And HCW’s stance:

‘Mr Wolters added: “The sooner we get evidence, the better for us to avoid the risk of him ever being released.

"If we find nothing new against him it could be that in seven years at the latest he may be released and leaves Germany for a country that doesn’t extradite."

The prosecutor said investigators are attempting to build the strongest case possible before trying to interrogate their chief suspect.’

Maddie suspect who raped pensioner now 'in therapy to cope with media scrutiny'

I think the case has already been successfully made about the reasoning behind the ruling, to keep this individual safely under lock and key.
________________________
A spokesperson for the Oldenburg District Court told the paper: “The court ruled there were no grounds for suspending the remainder of the sentence.”
_______________________________________

Lead German prosecutor HCW told the Mirror: “His request was rejected on the grounds that he could not be given a positive social prognosis.

“In other words, the court has said it believes that the convict will commit further offences if released.”

Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner denied parole in Germany – report

Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner has had a parole application rejected in Germany, according to a report.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

 

[Lyall0814]

I think the case has already been successfully made about the reasoning behind the ruling, to keep this individual safely under lock and key.
________________________
A spokesperson for the Oldenburg District Court told the paper: “The court ruled there were no grounds for suspending the remainder of the sentence.”
_______________________________________

Lead German prosecutor HCW told the Mirror: “His request was rejected on the grounds that he could not be given a positive social prognosis.

“In other words, the court has said it believes that the convict will commit further offences if released.”

Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner denied parole in Germany – report

Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner has had a parole application rejected in Germany, according to a report.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

Even his lawyer admits what CB is. But he won't let his client be shoehorned into responsibility for a murder he denies/which can't be proved. The prosecutors were obviously hoping more crimes would be reported after their public appeal (maybe they have been but we just haven't heard about them yet?). Then they could have solved their problem. And the public's problem. But it can't be solved by miscarriage of justice.

 

[Mex]

Not to undermine the seriousness of the alleged crime but two of those case don’t have identified victims… victims that haven’t come forward despite the global appeal. I can understand the difficulty victims of rape may have in coming forward but the facts, as we know them, are that CB was visible on the footage and we only know about these offences from two criminals - one of which is a convicted people smuggler and has a conviction for publicly assaulting a woman.

To say there are victims of five crime awaiting justice is inaccurate IMO.

There is a procedure to be gone through before charges can be laid concerning the validity and weight of the evidence. In both of these cases the charge of aggravated rape has stood the test of being presented for trial.

Nota Bene, FF has not objected to either case being on the charge sheet having to rely on the procedural ploy of jurisdiction.

Tells me something that he has ignored the passage of these two alleged rapes through the legal system of which he is part.
We don't know what is going on but for sure the legal participants do, which reinforces my opinion that these are two victims whose cases will be heard. Which of us knows what complaints have been made, or if they are in police files already like so many more(eg HB). HB sought publicity for her ordeal the other two may retain anonymity because they asked for it.
We don't know but the judiciary do

 

[Mex]

Even his lawyer admits what CB is. But he won't let his client be shoehorned into responsibility for a murder he denies/which can't be proved. The prosecutors were obviously hoping more crimes would be reported after their public appeal (maybe they have been but we just haven't heard about them yet?). Then they could have solved their problem. And the public's problem. But it can't be solved by miscarriage of justice.

I see very little scope (none really) for "miscarriage of justice) occurring with lawyers of the calibre of FF on the job.
As well as the others, is it four or is it only three plus FF. Now that's an expensive bunch of lawyering when one gives it thought.

 

[Pixie Child]

There is a procedure to be gone through before charges can be laid concerning the validity and weight of the evidence. In both of these cases the charge of aggravated rape has stood the test of being presented for trial.

Nota Bene, FF has not objected to either case being on the charge sheet having to rely on the procedural ploy of jurisdiction.

Tells me something that he has ignored the passage of these two alleged rapes through the legal system of which he is part.
We don't know what is going on but for sure the legal participants do, which reinforces my opinion that these are two victims whose cases will be heard. Which of us knows what complaints have been made, or if they are in police files already like so many more(eg HB). HB sought publicity for her ordeal the other two may retain anonymity because they asked for it.
We don't know but the judiciary do

Any case re MM will rely on the credibility of HB. Because he has prior convictions, he’s open to attack. It will be important to bolster his credibility.

I imagine BKA identified the 2 ladies on tape and assuming that what happened wasn’t consensual, BKA will have persuaded them to give evidence.

There may then be 3 victims (incl DM) giving credibility to HB & MS.

 

[Mex]

Any case re MM will rely on the credibility of HB. Because he has prior convictions, he’s open to attack. It will be important to bolster his credibility.

I imagine BKA identified the 2 ladies on tape and assuming that what happened wasn’t consensual, BKA will have persuaded them to give evidence.

There may then be 3 victims (incl DM) giving credibility to HB & MS.

I don't think prior convictions will be taken into account.

MM's case is very much a stand alone one in which the evidence, should there be enough and of sufficient quality to lay charges will be exclusive to her case. My opinion

 

[frank-cole]

I think you're correct. Another quote here which backs your Chinese whispers theory up as to what he actually said and how it's probably evolved over tabloid time -

Madeleine McCann could be alive admits German prosecutor who said she was dead

EXCLUSIVE: Hans Wolters has confirmed that there is no forensic evidence to show Maddie is dead, days after devastated Kate and Gerry McCann begged for proof

www.mirror.co.uk

"Maddie" McCann doch nicht tot? Britische Zeitung feuert gegen Braunschweiger Ermittler

Die 2007 in Portugal entführte Madeleine "Maddie" McCann hält die Staatsanwaltschaft Braunschweig für tot. Die britische Zeitung "Mirror" schob dem Braunschweiger Staatsanwalt Hans Christian Wolters aber nun eine Aussage unter, die er nie getätigt habe.

regionalheute.de

"Unfortunately, I can't tell you where the Mirror got its information, but it didn't come from me."


HCW was asked about the comments in the mirror & he said the above.

IMO it’s a subtle reminder of how tabloids try to change the narrative from story to story. Hopefully the Mirror have (from then) been accurate & verbatim with any HCW comments.

*Added - For context, this is HCW dismissing the comments attributed to him in that mirror article. Dismissing comments about the possibility of MM being alive or that this was his ‘private opinion’.

 

[Lyall0814]

Very interesting article there, Frank, if the translation into English is actually what Wolters said. But that can't be assumed I guess. Translation can obviously be tricky.

 

[frank-cole]

Very interesting article there, Frank, if the translation into English is actually what Wolters said. But that can't be assumed I guess. Translation can obviously be tricky.

Yes, those are his comments (in English). On reflection, the (now dismissed) comments in that Mirror article are inconsistent to the bold message HCW has had throughout, so I’m glad he was asked to clarify. From my perspective he’s been very clear all along - MM is dead & they have evidence that proves that. So tragic!

 

[Janosch]

Sorry if you already have this: HCW said suspect could be freed before probe ends.

Fresh blow in Madeleine McCann case as suspect could be freed before probe ends

 

[C.greek]

Not to undermine the seriousness of the alleged crime but two of those case don’t have identified victims… victims that haven’t come forward despite the global appeal. I can understand the difficulty victims of rape may have in coming forward but the facts, as we know them, are that CB was visible on the footage and we only know about these offences from two criminals - one of which is a convicted people smuggler and has a conviction for publicly assaulting a woman.

To say there are victims of five crime awaiting justice is inaccurate IMO.

Not because I want to defend HB (god forbid!) But just to point out that 'people smuggler' sounds quite different from what he was really caught doing...

To vima is a very reputable newspaper in Greece:

"From the investigation, it was established that the German in question, who lived in France, was arrested in 2011 in Igoumenitsa, when he tried to transport three illegal immigrants with his car. However, he did not appear in court and was found again in 2015 in Thessaloniki, whereupon he was sentenced to seven years and five months in prison and finally imprisoned in our country."

Ο «Ελληνας» που έριξε φως στην υπόθεση της Μαντλίν - ΤΟ ΒΗΜΑ

Ο ρόλος-κλειδί του Γερμανού που κρατούνταν στα Χανιά, η διάρρηξη στο σπίτι του υπόπτου για την αρπαγή του κοριτσιού, οι 22 βιντεοκασέτες-σοκ και τι είπε στη Σκότλαντ Γιαρντ

www.tovima.gr

 

[C.greek]

Sorry if you already have this: HCW said suspect could be freed before probe ends.

Fresh blow in Madeleine McCann case as suspect could be freed before probe ends

Let's just keep the only quote of the article

Mr Wolters said: “The investigation into the Maddie case will take as long as is necessary. If necessary, beyond a possible release of the accused.”