UID Victim: Manorville John Doe, Hispanic male, 5'6", 112 lbs., Namus 2725, found Nov 2000

[PictureSnatcher]

I think a) a John or b) a pimp or driver

Another crazy theory if I let my mind wander, given the small stature and jaw wiring i was thinking he could have been trans and in the early stages of transitioning and underwent some sort of face feminizing procedure where they had to alter the jaw/mandible. It wouldn't explain why he was found in men's clothing though. Unless he was redressed by the killer, which some people have mentioned happening to Asian male (although I personally don't think it makes sense) but ya, far fetched I'm sure. Just throwing it out there

Hi potato, so first let's look at John. It's possible he was a john, but what's the scenario where someone kills an escort and her client, and both remain unidentified. If you were randomly pick any escort in New York right in the middle of their latest transaction, you are almost guaranteed that that john is going to be a family man with a wife and kids, or atleast an average joe who is living on the grid. Johnny Monger out for milk.

A pimp, even he has a stable of girls who is going to report big daddy missing. And does this scrawny John Doe sound like he could be protecting anyone?

Drivers I feel like are a misunderstood phenomenon here on the websleuths LISK forum. Since Shannan had one one, posters are always assuming they are common. It seems like the girls who use drivers are the girls who work for escort agencies, where everything is "legit" and if they went missing on a call would be reported. A lot of girls either do incalls, work the street or drive a car themselves. In Melissa's case I think her pimp drove her to outcalls.

So a john, driver, or pimp..eh. Here is where Asian male helps us. Look at Tirrel Santiago's disappearance, he's young gay teenager dressing and going by a female name hanging out on the gay street New York. We don't know yet if he was prostituting himself, looking for a sugar daddy, just looking to meet up with someone for sex. But look, don't buy the ******** about the serial killer accidently picking up Tirrel. The serial killer likes males. And this is what will tell you who males are. They are either male prostitutes, and in this case it could be understood why we haven't found missing persons that match them. It's possible they were trans, or males dressing as females but all we know is two were wearing men's boxer shorts. Or they were gay men who weren't sex workers but perhaps meeting up with another man for sex. Still if you were to randomly pick any gay male in NY, what are the chances he isn't going to be reported missing and have a missing persons report we can find? So what demographic of gay males would have no missing persons report, is essentially the important question.

 

[Hotpotato]

What's your theory PS?

 

[Hotpotato]

Also these UP could be a lot of people, but when there's no sketch even done it's hard to say whether the person they could be ha been reported or not. I also think there's a good chance that these people are either here illegally or are immigrants so there's no one to report them as missing

 

[scotiansleuth]

Hi potato, so first let's look at John. It's possible he was a john, but what's the scenario where someone kills an escort and her client, and both remain unidentified. If you were randomly pick any escort in New York right in the middle of their latest transaction, you are almost guaranteed that that john is going to be a family man with a wife and kids, or atleast an average joe who is living on the grid. Johnny Monger out for milk.

A pimp, even he has a stable of girls who is going to report big daddy missing. And does this scrawny John Doe sound like he could be protecting anyone?

Drivers I feel like are a misunderstood phenomenon here on the websleuths LISK forum. Since Shannan had one one, posters are always assuming they are common. It seems like the girls who use drivers are the girls who work for escort agencies, where everything is "legit" and if they went missing on a call would be reported. A lot of girls either do incalls, work the street or drive a car themselves. In Melissa's case I think her pimp drove her to outcalls.

So a john, driver, or pimp..eh. Here is where Asian male helps us. Look at Tirrel Santiago's disappearance, he's young gay teenager dressing and going by a female name hanging out on the gay street New York. We don't know yet if he was prostituting himself, looking for a sugar daddy, just looking to meet up with someone for sex. But look, don't buy the ******** about the serial killer accidently picking up Tirrel. The serial killer likes males. And this is what will tell you who males are. They are either male prostitutes, and in this case it could be understood why we haven't found missing persons that match them. It's possible they were trans, or males dressing as females but all we know is two were wearing men's boxer shorts. Or they were gay men who weren't sex workers but perhaps meeting up with another man for sex. Still if you were to randomly pick any gay male in NY, what are the chances he isn't going to be reported missing and have a missing persons report we can find? So what demographic of gay males would have no missing persons report, is essentially the important question.

There is supposedly a gay pickup spot, a rest stop on Edwards Ave off of LIE, not far from where the bodies in Manorville have been found. I have it marked under Points of Interest on the map I am building. https://www.google.com/maps/d/embed...&ll=40.90420820523892,-72.74383394075318&z=17

 

[coffeeandacig]

And does this scrawny John Doe sound like he could be protecting anyone?

Drivers I feel like are a misunderstood phenomenon here on the websleuths LISK forum.

You're making few assumptions, that you deem irresponsible and not "fact" by other posters.
Although, in retrospect I've backed off him being a driver, I'm reminded...when does size, age, sex matter if your a good shot?
You may "feel" that people are assuming a majority of working girls have drivers like SG, but let's not assume that people on WS haven't done their homework, ok?
I "feel" that there is a timeline in which these two were murdered by LISK so closely, that they could have been in company with each other.

PS...Don't throw out the ugly oyster...it just might be the one with the pearl.

 

[Hotpotato]

You're making few assumptions, that you deem irresponsible and not "fact" by other posters.
Although, in retrospect I've backed off him being a driver, I'm reminded...when does size, age, sex matter if your a good shot?
You may "feel" that people are assuming a majority of working girls have drivers like SG, but let's not assume that people on WS haven't done there homework, ok?
I "feel" that there is a timeline in which these two were murdered by LISK so closely, that they could have been in company with each other.

PS...Don't throw out the ugly oyster...it just might be the one with the pearl.

I also believe they were very possibly together

 

[Hotpotato]

Also this isn't necessarily relating to manorville John Doe but assuming Jane and John Doe were together made me wonder if they were parents of the john valentine but I realized the dates were off. I do wonder if they have compared his DNA to other murder victims dna. I feel like there's a good chance there's a connection

 

[PictureSnatcher]

You may "feel" that people are assuming a majority of working girls have drivers like SG, but let's not assume that people on WS haven't done there homework, ok?
I "feel" that there is a timeline in which these two were murdered by LISK so closely, that they could have been in company with each other.

PS...Don't throw out the ugly oyster...it just might be the one with the pearl.

If there is one thing I know for absolute certain, it's that many of the websleuther's who joined after watching the killing season do not do their homework.

What does this mean: "I "feel" that there is a timeline in which these two were murdered by LISK so closely, that they could have been in company with each other."?

 

[PictureSnatcher]

There is a timeline that says these pairs were called right about the same time. So were they killed together, or were they killed on the same "active weekend"?

You really think all 3 guys are drivers? Divers, and girls with drivers (Like Shannan, or Melissa's whose pimp drover her sometimes) turn up in missing person's report. Also we know Jessica Taylor didn't have a driver. It's a mystery and of course "driver' is the first thought many had but personally I think it's unlikely. Don't forget the man who found the body in 2003 thought it was a woman because of the foot size, although that could be do to the fact it was skeletal.

 

[Hotpotato]

So then what do you think is happening PictureSnatcher?

 

[PictureSnatcher]

The more I learn, the more questions I have. I think the males and females were killed in Brooklyn. Like I said before, I think the killer likes males. That's why they are in their boxer shorts. I am convinced there is a sexual element to the murder and there was a sexual element to the encounter as well. That's why I don't believe they were drivers.

 

[Emre E]

Opinion. Already posted. Nothing new.

John Doe 2000 and John Doe 2003 are customers of Jane Doe#6 and Jessica Taylor. I don't know what you see, but to me John Doe 2000 with boxers screams "john".

This is the crime, how it happens and where it happens. New York not Long Island.
2 BAGGED BODIES JOLT CREW
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/2-bagged-bodies-jolt-crew-article-1.777684

What I think happening is some career criminals, a duo or a trio, is busting prostitutes and their customers. The crimes are mainly sexually driven however robbery also plays a major part. A john hiring a prostitute has at least a few hundred dollars on him, similarly a girl who worked the streets for a few hours already may also have serious cash. So, when they bust them, say in an abandoned house in Brooklyn, they have both the woman and the money and probably the vehicle which they will use to transport the bodies.

The way I see it; SCPD is quite aware that the killings has got nothing to do with Suffolk County. They know they are dealing with a serial dumper, not a serial killer. So, they just sweep the case the under the rug. Because these are prostitutes. Who's gonna fight LE teeth and claw for them? Suffolk residents? Families of the victims who have a hard time making ends meet?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?288946-Post-Your-Profile-2&p=12080844#post12080844

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?288946-Post-Your-Profile-2&p=12082760#post12082760

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?288946-Post-Your-Profile-2&p=12085634#post12085634

The following is from Thalia Stathis murder. Just try to figure out how the prosecution proved count#2.. They can't. In fact they kind of prove the man is innocent..
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ed-Victims-**MERGED**&p=10954591#post10954591

 

[Kellyd]

If there is one thing I know for absolute certain, it's that many of the websleuther's who joined after watching the killing season do not do their homework.

What does this mean: "I "feel" that there is a timeline in which these two were murdered by LISK so closely, that they could have been in company with each other."?

I'm sure not all of them do their homework but some of us have and "fresh eyes" can't hurt. I don't want to feel intimidated to post something simply because I'm new and joined after I watched TKS, but honestly sometimes I do feel intimidated. Opinions are opinions, theories are theories and facts are facts. IMO if people are trying to help, you should let them.

I've been in the research field for most of my life and lost my job after 15 years in December. I have been spending most of my time here reading the pages and pages of threads and have 3 notebooks filled with notes on various cases already. I do this not only to keep my skills sharp but also in the hopes of helping anyone in any of the various cases on here whether it be families, other websleuthers, etc.. once I start working again I won't be able to be on here as much but I will stay current and continue to do what I can.

I didn't mean for this to be harsh I just wanted to express my point of view for some perspective. I really have a lot of respect for all of you and I think what you're doing is awesome and I hope we can all continue to try to help together.

That's the end of my rant, thanks for listening.

JMO

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

 

[The Nomad]

I'm sure not all of them do their homework but some of us have and "fresh eyes" can't hurt. I don't want to feel intimidated to post something simply because I'm new and joined after I watched TKS, but honestly sometimes I do feel intimidated. Opinions are opinions, theories are theories and facts are facts. IMO if people are trying to help, you should let them.



Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

You can always use the ignore button, as an FYI - PS's post is a bit like the pot calling the kettle. - Join Date 'Dec 2016' - Oh right... so after TKS.

Anyway back on topic, fresh eyes are always welcome. It only takes one person to crack a case. I think Emre's post above is very relevant. The reason why I don't lean towards the 'hit from a pimp' angle is only because JT was posed. I think it'd just be execution style is gang/pimp/drug related. Which also makes me question whether it could be Hooker/John combos - UNLESS dirty LE were involved in the bust, but that circles me back to the posing of the body 'why'?

For me, they are separate events. By one or more individuals.

 

[Hotpotato]

The other thing that makes me think it's not a hit is the way they were killed for the most part. If someone's objective was to rob and kill quickly it seems like it'd be a quick bullet and done. I mean I'm not super knowledgeable about hits but it seems like these were killings someone enjoyed

 

[PictureSnatcher]

You can always use the ignore button, as an FYI - PS's post is a bit like the pot calling the kettle. - Join Date 'Dec 2016' - Oh right... so after TKS.

Anyway back on topic, fresh eyes are always welcome. It only takes one person to crack a case. I think Emre's post above is very relevant. The reason why I don't lean towards the 'hit from a pimp' angle is only because JT was posed. I think it'd just be execution style is gang/pimp/drug related. Which also makes me question whether it could be Hooker/John combos - UNLESS dirty LE were involved in the bust, but that circles me back to the posing of the body 'why'?

For me, they are separate events. By one or more individuals.

JT was posed? No JT was dumped off right off Halsey Manor. Just because she wasn't dumped deep in the woods, doesn't mean she was posed

 

[Armchair-reader]

You can always use the ignore button, as an FYI - PS's post is a bit like the pot calling the kettle. - Join Date 'Dec 2016' - Oh right... so after TKS.

Anyway back on topic, fresh eyes are always welcome. It only takes one person to crack a case. I think Emre's post above is very relevant. The reason why I don't lean towards the 'hit from a pimp' angle is only because JT was posed. I think it'd just be execution style is gang/pimp/drug related. Which also makes me question whether it could be Hooker/John combos - UNLESS dirty LE were involved in the bust, but that circles me back to the posing of the body 'why'?

For me, they are separate events. By one or more individuals.

Do you mean like hooker/pimp combos robbing John's or taking out the competition (other prostitues)? Forgive me I've been coffee free for 3 days doing a system reboot lol

 

[Emre E]

You can always use the ignore button, as an FYI - PS's post is a bit like the pot calling the kettle. - Join Date 'Dec 2016' - Oh right... so after TKS.

Anyway back on topic, fresh eyes are always welcome. It only takes one person to crack a case. I think Emre's post above is very relevant. The reason why I don't lean towards the 'hit from a pimp' angle is only because JT was posed. I think it'd just be execution style is gang/pimp/drug related. Which also makes me question whether it could be Hooker/John combos - UNLESS dirty LE were involved in the bust, but that circles me back to the posing of the body 'why'?

For me, they are separate events. By one or more individuals.

I don't think there is a news report about Jessica being posed. All the reports I have seen indicate she is dumped as quickly as possible.

When a pimp kills one of his girls, he does everything to make it look like a death from natural causes or suicide. Not dismember the body.

example case.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/c...-las-vegas-prostitute-initially-ruled-suicide

 

[PictureSnatcher]

Emre, if those 3 males or even 2 were johns, don't you think that there would be a missing persons report? The Johns who have a few hundred dollars are the john's with cars, families, jobs. How lucky of the killing crew to pick at random johns who fall of the face of the earth and no one notices

 

[Emre E]

Well there could be.. There may be.. But say it is filed from a different state? What if some particulars are confusing and the reports can not be matched?


Or they may not be reported
Maybe they are tourists? Maybe illegals?

Or in general who is a john? Well, some are family men but some are loners. Barely make ends meet and blow some steam off when they get a paycheck?

Anything is possible.