Max's Death - Dina's Independent Experts Summary Reports

[jjenny]

I think if he ate a plant prior to accident that wouldn't have caused pneumonia. Once he was in a coma he could have inhaled dust containing plant material.

"Pneumonitis is a term that also refers to inflammation of the lungs. It may be due to infection, an allergic reaction (caused by inhalation of dust containing animal or plant material), exposure to radiation, accidental inhalation of vomit or other liquid (aspiration pneumonia), or as a rare side effect of certain drugs (acebutolol, azathioprine)."
http://www.nmihi.com/p/bacterial-pneumonia.htm

 

[Jessica2012]

Deleted because it is on the wrong thread. So sorry.

 

[Jessica2012]

I couldn't put all that together either from the Summary Report (attorney) or Dr. Melinek. I can't even determine where they are claiming he went over on his back if the scooter had to be there also (and I think going in a direction that would be 90 degrees from his body?). Clearly, they are claiming at some point he couldn't have gone over the railing at the lower height railing (because of the marks on the banister or being able to get up momentum - UGH?). The momentum thing doesn't work for me because of them saying be could have backed into the railing (for some reason) and escaped over it... that sounds passive itself. The marks the railing thing doesn't work because they don't look like a body, how would the scooter be in that position and forced somehow to make those marks, I forgot my last point!

I haven't read Dr. Bove's report from beginning to end, but maybe it is more clear. If so, and he hasn't concluded a perpetrator or assault had to have occurred, then I'd say the Summary Report is possibly cut and pasted in a way that misrepresents what Dr. Bove said.

@Time- What if the scooter was not involved at all in Max's fall? The experts did say it would not land in the position Max was found in. So to me, that means it was placed there after the fall. How would he gain momentum with a scooter on a carpeted floor anyways? XZ said he showed her the day before how to ride the scooter Police asked her how could he ride on a carpeted floor, and she responded he rode it very slowly.

 

[Jessica2012]

Perhaps an older sibling dared him to eat 'plant material' before the fatal dare/accident?

Or perhaps the only person alive did, since the older siblings were not there at the time of Max's fatal accident.

 

[K_Z]

I have to say I am a little dumbfounded that Dr. Melenik was provided these: :waitasec: - not sure if I am allowed to say anything about extremely hate filled pages, but... (from MSM link to her Report)

21 .Various informational sheets and forum discussions from the internet dated 317112
including : http ://www.scotsdalesoccer.com/Tournament/Max_Shacknai?
index_E.html; http://www.lefthandedkitten.freeforu...spiciousabout-
max-s-death-t7.html; http://lefthandedkitten.freeforums.o...ies-inrebecca-
s-versions-of-events-tS9.html; http://lefthandedkitten.freeforums.org/max-sinjuries-
and-cause-of-death-t58.html; http://lefthandedkitten.freeforums.org/mystery


of -the-benzo-132. htm I
2 B . Various informational sheets from the internet including:
. Aussie Jujitsu: Principles of Pressure Point Application http://
aussiejujitsu.blogspot.coml20ll/03/principles-of-pressure-point.html 712812011
. Brad Parker "The Ten Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Moves Every Cop Should Know" http://
www. g rapplearts. co m/BJ J -f or-Pol ice. htm 7 128 | 20 1 1
. "Pressure Points" from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_

​

point
7128/2011
. "Anatomy of a Choke" by E. Karl Korwai, MD from 8/1 12011 http://

www.o nth emat. com/p rinIlTT I 4
. http://www.scotsdalesoccer.com/Tourn...i?index_E.html
. http://www.lefthandedkitten.freeforu...ious-about-max

s-death-t7.html

. http://lefthandedkitten.freeforums.o...-s-versions-of

events{59.html

. http://lefthandedkitten.freeforums.o...death-t58.html

. http://lefthandedkitten.freeforums.o...benzo-t32.html

Well, if there was ever any doubt that the individuals from LHK are directly asociated with DS, this dispels it! ROFLMAO! That's absolutely hilarious!

The bigger question is, how much are they paid for this activity?

Trolls. Paid trolls, or unpaid, not exactly a fair and balanced, expert set of opinions, now is it? LMAO! This is Dina's bombshell?? A nasty, hate filled bitty little forum of laypeople, with about 10-20 members (banned from everywhere else), has cracked this case wide open? Experts schmexperts-- all we need are a few LHKers with opinions!

Oh my. I have no words. Only laughter, and pity.

 

[time]

@Time- What if the scooter was not involved at all in Max's fall? The experts did say it would not land in the position Max was found in. So to me, that means it was placed there after the fall. How would he gain momentum with a scooter on a carpeted floor anyways? XZ said he showed her the day before how to ride the scooter Police asked her how could he ride on a carpeted floor, and she responded he rode it very slowly.

It appears to be Dina's experts who say it is involved and they have accounted for it's position, yet I can't see where they make any claim it is essential to what they claim could have occurred. Although I think they do claim he couldn't gain momentum on the scooter because of carpet. You are correct, even XZ said he was riding it up there but wasn't going very fast.

I could hypothesize that if something fell on a Scooter, it might pop it up and turn it over and who knows where and how it would land.

I don't see anything to be gained by someone placing the scooter on Max after he fell when no one can even prove it was important in the scheme of some fatal accident.

 

[jjenny]

The hospital might be only 2 minutes from the home. But what does that prove, exactly? Autopsy estimates 25-30 minutes before pulse returned. I don't doubt this takes into account paramedics working on him before they were able to restore circulation.
According to autopsy, he had acute hemorrhagic necrosis of the spinal cord. Necrosis means cell death. And once cells of the spinal cord die, they are dead. Doesn't sound like an injury that was going to resolve spontaneously to me.

 

[Jessica2012]

Deleted because post does not belong here

 

[katydid23]

It appears to be Dina's experts who say it is involved and they have accounted for it's position, yet I can't see where they make any claim it is essential to what they claim could have occurred. Although I think they do claim he couldn't gain momentum on the scooter because of carpet. You are correct, even XZ said he was riding it up there but wasn't going very fast.

I could hypothesize that if something fell on a Scooter, it might pop it up and turn it over and who knows where and how it would land.

I don't see anything to be gained by someone placing the scooter on Max after he fell when no one can even prove it was important in the scheme of some fatal accident.

The only reason I can see is if it had nothing to do with the incident, but muddied the waters. Just like RZ saying that Maxie said "Ocean" right before he passed out. Does anyone believe that?

 

[jjenny]

The paramedics would not have to work on him for that long if help were immediately called for. Second, taking into account the time paramedics took to restore circulation, with the hospital only being two minutes away, there is no possible way that Max could have had global hypoxia on presentation(again, this is a very late finding) if help were called for immediately. He did not have acute hemmorhagic necrosis of the spinal cord on presentation. That developed way later, all as a result of the initial lack of oxygen which eventially caused the fatal injuries. What I am trying to say is that the amount of swelling in his brain at the first hospital was massive. He had global hypoxia...those signs would not show up until way later after the insult.(I am taking into account the time paramedics worked on him.)

I fail to understand these arguments. It doesn't take long for brain to start dying. In fact vast, vast majority of people who go into sudden cardiac arrest outside the hospital are going to die.

"Brain cells are extremely sensitive to a lack of oxygen. Some brain cells start dying less than 5 minutes after their oxygen supply disappears. As a result, brain hypoxia can rapidly cause severe brain damage or death."
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001435.htm

 

[time]

The paramedics would not have to work on him for that long if help were immediately called for. Second, taking into account the time paramedics took to restore circulation, with the hospital only being two minutes away, there is no possible way that Max could have had global hypoxia on presentation(again, this is a very late finding) if help were called for immediately. He did not have acute hemmorhagic necrosis of the spinal cord on presentation. That developed way later, all as a result of the initial lack of oxygen which eventially caused the fatal injuries. What I am trying to say is that the amount of swelling in his brain at the first hospital was massive. He had global hypoxia...those signs would not show up until way later after the insult.(I am taking into account the time paramedics worked on him.)

As it has been said many times, nothing could have saved Max because of the type injury he had.

I worked very hard to make this thread about discussions of the reports. The arguments you are bringing up, as you well know, have been discussed ad naseum in the last few days on other thread.

The report offered by Dina's experts concurs with what Max's condition was.

 

[Jessica2012]

Deleted, repeat post.

 

[Jessica2012]

As it has been said many times, nothing could have saved Max because of the type injury he had.

I worked very hard to make this thread about discussions of the reports. The arguments you are bringing up, as you well know, have been discussed ad naseum in the last few days on other thread.

The report offered by Dina's experts concurs with what Max's condition was.

Ok, time, I apologize, I was responding to questions asked of the posts I made why I, experts and all doctors I have discussed this case with believe Maxie could have, would have and should have been saved. He absolutely did not die on impact. I am sorry I posted on the wrong thread I can't delete it now though

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

Does anyone recall if MS is right or left handed?

One scenario I thought of is what if MS was reaching for the chandelier with the ruler while on the scooter at the railing and up on his tip toes? If he is holding tight to the scooter handle and with the other hand reaching way out to try and grab the chandelier with a ruler...... and what if the dog jumps on him from behind...? Would MS fall over still holding onto the scooter...dragging against the railing bannister making those marks...as MS flips over.... the scooter flips up and gets tangled in the chandelier for a split second while MS swings out holding onto the scooter now stuck in the chandelier ... and then when the chandelier gives way.... the boy, the scooter and the ruler crash to the ground...

I find the ruler to be a fascinating piece of new evidence.... exactly what a boy might try to use to reach that dazzling chandelier....and pull it over to have a good look.. or actually hang off of it....

and thanks so much Time for setting this up.... very interesting reading...

that door on the middle landing... always open... does it lead to the garage? I need to double check...

 

[time]

IMO the marks on this railing seem like they would have come from something hard scraping against it. I would not think a person backed up into this would create these gouges.

This is from Dr. Melinek's report:

ln the autopsy photographs, the injuries on Max's back aggregate in a somewhat "7" shaped angled configuration, more in line with the height and shape of the banister on the second floor, from whence he fell. The damage to the newel post at this floor indicate that this is the original site of the fall, and Max's resting position on the ground immediately below suggests this as well.

BBM - I'm assuming that means the damage to the post on the second floor - it's written oddly - and it appears she is saying that damage to the post was done by his body so I am scratching my head. :waitasec:

The report goes on:

An unassisted accidental fall, as depicted in Dr. Gomez's scenario, does not explain the subsequent resting position of the Razor scooter on top of Maxfield's leg (where there is no bruising or injury) and the complete lack of glass shard "dicing" injury to Maxfield's body.

How does her scenario explains where the scooter is? Where was it before?

 

[Quester]

Fmr. LAPD detective [Fuhrman] weighs in on [ S ] case

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/19236125/fmr-lapd-detective-weighs-in-on-shacknai-case

 

[time]

And what is Dr. Melinek's scenario? How did he escape if somebody backed him into the railing? How did the chandelier go down? I don't understand what the scenario is?

This paragraph appears to contain the basic 'scenario(s)' (from Dr. Melinek's report):

Maxfield was assaulted by another person at the hallway, near the banister on the second floor. The perpetrator injured his face and shoulder and Maxfield then was pushed against or backed into the second story railing, causing the patterned injuries along his back. Then, he was either lifted over the banister or he escaped over the banister, falling down to the front entryway, below. He landed on the top of his head and collapsed with his legs following, rather than with his legs first and his face second, as in Dr. Gomez's scenario.

If I parse this out into one of the possibilities (I changed it slightly):

Maxfield was assaulted by another person at the hallway, near the banister on the second floor. The perpetrator injured his face and shoulder and Maxfield then backed into the second story railing, causing the patterned injuries along his back. Then, he went over the banister, falling down to the front entryway, below. He landed on the top of his head and collapsed with his legs following

Other than face and shoulder injuries then, e.g., no perpetrator/assault - and remember Dr. Bove said he could not determine the initiating events - it becomes:

Something happened in the upper hallway to make Maxfield back into the second story railing, causing the patterned injuries along his back. Then, he went over the banister, falling down to the front entryway, below. He landed on the top of his head and collapsed with his legs following

 

[time]

Fmr. LAPD detective [Fuhrman] weighs in on [ S ] case

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/19236125/fmr-lapd-detective-weighs-in-on-shacknai-case

Can't get it - what did he say?

 

[Quester]

Can't get it - what did he say?

Fuhrman gives commentary at the end of the choppy tape. He just starts in and the feed cuts off for me. I've tried to listen to it 3-4 times and still can't get to the end. Also, there seems to be no way of just jumping to the end of the tape. Ugh!

 

[time]

Fuhrman gives commentary at the end of the choppy tape. He just starts in and the feed cuts off for me. I've tried to listen to it 3-4 times and still can't get to the end. Also, there seems to be no way of just jumping to the end of the tape. Ugh!

I go to the same point you did with it after 3 tries and gave up!