MD - Hae Min Lee, 17, Baltimore, 13 Jan 1999

Discussion in 'Past Trial Discussion Threads' started by jellybeanz, Oct 9, 2014.

  1. jellybeanz

    jellybeanz Active Member

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    The "true crime" genre holds a morbid fascination, and the new podcast from the team behind This American Life has a doozy of a specimen in a 15-year-old Baltimore murder case that may or may not have resulted in a wrongful conviction of a teenage boy for the murder of his high school sweetheart.

    Read more at: http://www.baltimoremagazine.net/2014/10/6/1999-murder-of-baltimore-teen-re-examined-in-new-podcast

    --------------------------------------------------------
    I have to say I am hooked. So many questions that I hope are answered in the coming 'episodes'. I also hope some good sleuthers can delve into this case and maybe find some information that the people working on this podcast have missed.

    The podcast can be found * here *
     
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  3. jellybeanz

    jellybeanz Active Member

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  4. jellybeanz

    jellybeanz Active Member

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    I really thought this would be right up the street of many on here.

    http://serialpodcast.org/season-one/episode1/the-alibi

    http://serialpodcast.org/season-one/episode2/the-breakup

    http://serialpodcast.org/season-one/episode3/leakin-park


    Major Players:
    • Adnan Masud Syed - convicted of murder, ex-boyfriend of victim, muslim teen, Pakistani SUSPECT
    • Hae Min Lee - murder victim, daughter of Korean immigrants
    • Jay - police informant, his testimony and cell phone records comprises only evidence in the case, weed-dealer, friend of Adnan, 19, black male... SUSPECT
    • Sarah Koenig - investigator, story-teller, NPR reporter
    • Asia McLean - alibi at the library that says she was with Adnan during the murder, wrote letters to Adnan saying she remembered seeing him at the library, was freaked out by the investigator, related to Comptroller defended by Ms Gutierrez???
    • Rabia Chaudry - was in the courtroom for the trial, referred case to Sarah K., because Sarah had reported on Adnan’s disbarred and deceased layer for Baltimore paper, real estate attorney, Pakistani, twitter @rabiasquared
    • Saad Chaudry - younger brother to Rabia and is/was Adnan’s best friend, mortgage broker
    • Mr. S - found Hae's body in Leaken Park while stopping to pee on lunch break, maintenance worker at local school, convicted "streaker" '94 '96 '98 SUSPECT
    Family and Friends:
    • Youn Wha Kim - Mother of victim
    • Young Lee - younger brother of victim
    • Stephanie - Jay’s girlfriend, birthday on day of murder, one of Adnan’s best friends
    • Derek - saw Adnan at library, Asia’s old BF
    • Jerrod Johnson - Asia’s boyfriend’s friend, went to library to pick up Asia, window tinting business, twitter @Realtintman_Atl
    • Asia’s fiancee - won’t answer the door, tells lawyer’s PI that they can’t speak to Asia, says Adnan is guilty and deserved his punishment, “we don’t have to talk to you"
    • Aisha Pitman - Good friend of Hae, same school program as Adnan/Hae
    • Debby Warren - Friend of Hae, read part of Hae’s diary on the witness stand
    • Becky - says Adnan asked Hae for a ride
    • Don - new boyfriend, works with Hae at Lens Crafters, older with a Camaro, key to prosecution's theory of motive SUSPECT
    • Angelie - girl from Philly who Adnan dated
    • Nisha - girl from Silver Spring MD Adnan dated
    • Mac - friend of Adnan, remembers Adnan “making out” with another girl
    School Officials:
    • Track Coach - might have seen Adnan after murder time, can’t say for sure, Jay says fake an alibi
    • Sister-in-law of Mr. S - Math teacher at Woodlawn in '99, Hae was her student, husband used to live next to Adnan, believe Mr. S's story
    • Jane Effron - Adnan’s English teacher (taught for 17 years) that testified that he had a “dark side which is in his poetry,” born in England, attended nursing school, husband Gershon Efron, B.A. from Notre Dame College
    • Michelle Hamiel - current Woodlawn library manager
    • Inez Butler-Hendricks - possibly the last person to see Hae at school, ran concession stand at the gym where Hae would buy apple juice and fries, didn’t see Adnan leave school with Hae
    Lawyers and Police:
    • Maria Christina Gutierrez - Adnan's original attorney, deceased 2004, disbarred in 2001 due to lack of attention to clients because of health issues link
    • New Lawyer after Christina (Charles H. Dorsey III?)- tried to get Asia to testify
    • New Lawyer’s investigator - talked to Asia's fiancee and wasn't allowed to talk to Asia
    • Kevin Urick - prosecutor of Adnan’s case, Assistant State's Attorney
    • Judge Wanda K. Heard - judge in case
    • Scott Adcock - Baltimore county police officer, called Hae’s cell and friends, says Adnan told him he was gonna get a ride with Hae but got held up at school and missed the ride
    • Bill Ritz - experienced Baltimore city detective investigated Hae's murder, interviewed Mr. S
    • Greg MacGillivary - experienced Baltimore city detective investigated Hae's murder, convinced Adnan is guilty
    Others:
    • Justin George - crime reporter from Baltimore Sun, worked with Sarah K. at least once, twitter @justingeorge (3)
    • Phillip Buddemeyer - city surveyor who visited burial spot, died 2010

    credit /u/jakeprops
     
  5. belimom

    belimom Our lives begin to end the day we become silent ab

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    I came here to post about this story and discuss it. My DH actually brought this podcast to my attention, which is unusual because he never follows crime cases. But he heard it somewhere and got wrapped up in it.

    I don't know if Adnan is guilty or not, but he didn't get a fair trial, IMO.

    By the way, the podcast is very interesting/detailed/intriguing, although I wish it weren't 12 episodes. That's a long time to wait........
     
  6. jellybeanz

    jellybeanz Active Member

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    Thank you Belimon.

    I can't wait till Thursday.
    I think Sarah K is holding back some stuff in this case that isn't available online and I agree I don't think Adnan had a fair trial, guilty or not.

    I have found out who Mr S is and think he may pop up later in this story. I'm also intrigued who Jay is and have a feeling he may be now in lockup on a murder charge, but we will see.

    As I said, I am hooked on this and eagerly await the information yet to be revealed.
     
  7. halley

    halley New Member

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    I am so into this podcast - I wish it would just keep going. I cannot wait for the next episode. Sort of thought the sleuths would be into it more than they appear to be???
     
  8. Frankie Hellis

    Frankie Hellis New Member

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    I am! I am! I was devastated to find out I had to wait for another episode. There is not much information I can find online about the case. I wish I could locate the trial transcripts.
     
  9. jellybeanz

    jellybeanz Active Member

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    I know!

    Maybe a load of people are waiting for it to finish, then binge listen to it? I thought about doing this after episode 2, but I just can't wait for more snippets so click the link and listen...

    Again, Jay sounds well dodgy in the latest release. Hmmmm.
     
  10. jakeprops

    jakeprops New Member

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    I made this (the person list)! Continuing to update as new episodes come out. I'm one of the moderators of the reddit community where this is posted. BTW, episode 4 dropped today.
     
  11. rubelet

    rubelet New Member

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    Just listening to episode 4. It's amazing. Came to websleuths to see if it was being discussed. I'm anxious to know more about this case.
     
  12. jellybeanz

    jellybeanz Active Member

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    :welcome:

    Hi jakeprops and welcome to Websleuths. I gave you the credit at the bottom of your list.

    I see Adnan's brother has been posting on your site and that Jay's surname has been revealed too.
    I got it wrong about him being in jail and see he has a young family now. Also still friends with Jenn...
     
  13. jellybeanz

    jellybeanz Active Member

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    Tire impression cast - as per 'Evidence Map' uploaded on 10th October by the Serial Team.

    Not seeing much about this, but can we assume the tire impression is from Hae Lee's car, possibly partly driven into the gap in the trees where she was located?

    Also, the condom and its wrapper? And the gun casings? Seems so out of place for these items to be found there if Hae Lee was already dead. Unless he was really sick and wanted to abuse a corpse? I don't think so and not getting that.

    If those items belonged to the perp, then can we maybe guess that Hae Lee was still alive at this point? That would considerably affect the timeline of events.
    A gun fired into the air, to scare Hae to walk further into the trees, or if she was making a run for it after getting out of the car? Hence the shell casings near to the road?
    The condom and its wrapper discarded after he had strangled her in the wood and returned to the car to get away.
     
  14. jellybeanz

    jellybeanz Active Member

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  15. jellybeanz

    jellybeanz Active Member

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    There's a lot of talk about Adnan loaning his car and cell to Jay on the day of the murder and that was part of his premeditation.

    On the flip side to this, noone appears to be questioning whether Jay made sure his car was unavailable that day and the following day (as per Jenn's testimony that she drove Jay around Baltimore picking up shovels from dumpsters, taking to other dumpsters to discard the clothes he was wearing on the day of Hae's murder) in order for him to appear in an almost ghost like fashion those two days.

    I've read that Jay's possible motive was because Hae was going to confront him on his cheating Stephanie with other girls. Hae could have called Adnan's cell that afternoon (see here for phone logs to and from Adnans cell) at 2:36pm and got Jay on the end of the line.
    Jay could have easily have asked Hae to meet him right there and then to discuss his philandering ways at a secluded spot and carried out the murder.

    Everything that comes out of Jay's mouth with regard to Adnan, I think that that is in fact him and his actions. I think in his 'story' of lies he therefore needs and did have an accomplice - that cannot be him as he is Adnan in the story he describes. I have to think his accomplice is Jenn, the Detective's daughter from another County. (See excessive calls to and from her on day of murder)
    I also have to think this is why the investigating detectives focused entirely on Adnan and believed what Jay and Jenn told them unconditionally, despite the admitted lies and inconsistencies.

    I have so so much more thoughts on the whole matter, but will stop at that for now.
     
  16. Runlove

    Runlove Verified Insider

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    Wow, I was really hoping more people would be sleuthing this because I'm obsessed now and I don't know what to think!
     
  17. jellybeanz

    jellybeanz Active Member

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    So episode 5 went up on Thursday which concentrated on cell phone tower pings and the mess of a timeline the state went with at trial.

    Today, mary_landa on reddit unearthed some court documents from Adnan's appeal in 2002.

    So for folks who aren't following on reddit, you can find those documents here and here.

    Quite a lot of information in those documents that haven't been talked about on Sarah Koenig's podcast, so you could class them as a spoiler.
     
  18. Migmuu

    Migmuu Member

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    ''Serial'' is an AMAZING podcast. I've listened to every episode so far. This American Life should seriously consider making this a long-running series, where they re-examine potential wrongful conviction cases.

    Right now, I'm not totally convinced that Adnan is innocent. I feel like he's most likely innocent, but I don't want to jump to conclusions yet.

    IMO the circumstantial evidence points to his innocence. There hasn't been a singular piece of evidence strong enough to make me go "Yeah, he's innocent" on his own. But when you learn that no one can say Adnan had any ill will towards Hae, the Asia girl (who' the most reliable witness in this story so far, tbh) says she saw him in the library at the time the prosecution thinks the murder took place, how unreliable Jay's testimony is, and how shaky the prosecution's timeline is... I don't know, it just doesn't point to Adnan's guilt. And I didn't really buy the prosecution's proposed motive for the killing, either.

    The timeline means it's possible Adnan did it, but it's very improbable. It'd leave only 3 minutes for him to get into a heated argument with Hae, kill her and stuff her body in the trunk). That's way too fast IMO, especially considering that 1) Adnan was only 17 and would not have been experienced in killing at all, and 2) manual strangulation is NOT an easy process. Even if you assume the strangulation only took 2 minutes (which is pretty damn fast), that leaves only 60 seconds to have a massive argument and put Hae in the trunk. All in a Best Buy parking lot.

    Episode 6 is going to focus on the state's case against Adnan. I'm sure the prosecution had something that hasn't yet been discussed on Serial, and maybe that ''something'' will make me change my mind and think Adnan's guilty. However, whether Adnan is guilty or innocent, it doesn't sound like he had a fair trial and it certainly doesn't sound like it was a strong enough case to convict on.
     
  19. jellybeanz

    jellybeanz Active Member

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  20. las726

    las726 New Member

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    Love WS, love This American Life, LOVE Serial!
     
  21. las726

    las726 New Member

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    I'm trying to balance my intense curiosity for more information in this story with my desire to let things play out in the podcast episodes. I'm so anxious to figure out how Sarah will end this story. I've delved into a couple of things. Here is the link to the appellate appeal which provides a lot of interesting info.

    https://pdf.yt/d/PUUcby-AZWfEhcuW/download
     

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