MD MD - Sr. Catherine Cesnik, 26, Baltimore, 7 Nov 1969 "The Keepers"

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bravos4evr;13416415: Great post snipped by me.

Sorry I accidentally cut all of what you wrote when I just meant to cut some of it. I agree with everything you said, in particular the last bit about the DA. I wanted to chime in and say I believe the gynecologist should be prosecuted as well. What he did was criminal and he almost seemed glib about it. [emoji51]

Thank you for such a great post!

The above is just my opinion.
 
Dawning3 said:
Gerry Koob seemed incredibly sincere to me. I do believe that he loved Cathy and is still devastated over her death, even after all these years. His eyes looked so honest and had so much pain behind them. He and Cathy may have been having a sexual relationship, but he probably would have felt like he had to protect her memory/integrity by not revealing it. Either that or her letter was pure fantasy. She may have been acknowledging her love and lust for Koob, without ever having acted on it.

I also believe that it's entirely believable that she didn't tell Koob about the sexual allegations, because she didn't even tell her family about them when she went home for her last visit. Priests and nuns generally keep confidences in a different way than the rest of us do.

The story about the vagina was indeed bizarre, but I believe Koob. The police were either corrupt or they were using repulsive tactics to try to get him to confess. Either way, they wanted to intimidate him. Most likely, the police officer used something that resembled a vagina for his disgusting stunt. It's too crazy for Koob to make up.

As far as Koob's alibi. I think the other priest misspoke when he gave a comment to the newspaper about driving from the wrong place; or the newspaper printed it wrong. He and Koob were obviously together that night, because they had the ticket stubs, restaurant receipt, AND passed the lie detector test.

Honestly, when the episode started to focus on Koob as a suspect, I instantly thought, "Don't go there!" My gut told me that he was completely innocent. The only reason the newspaper man acted suspicious of him was because of something a police officer said to him. Obviously, LE immediately goes to the love interest as the first suspect, so they didn't want to let that go -- either because the police officer who wanted Koob charged was trying to deflect from the real culprit or because he wanted an easy answer.


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I agree, I agree. The other thing about Sr. Cathy is that back then, I wonder if not very many people knew about that type of abuse. Now we hear about it often, unfortunately. But back in the sixties, she probably would have doubted herself before a priest, and maskell clearly knew how to intimidate people. She must have been terribly conflicted and just doubtful that something like that could even happen.

The above is just my opinion.
 
Springrain said:
Surprised there aren't more posts here.

I think Maskell absolutely set up the murder to silence Cathy, but I don't think he was the one who actually killed her. Agree that LE and the Archdiocese are covering a LOT up.
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I felt the same way. When I watched the documentary I came here expecting their to be Pages upon pages of post stating Way Way Back.

I'm not sure what to believe about maskell. I would not be surprised if he ordered someone to kill Sr. Cathy and stood there and watched it happen.

I have no doubt that there was abuse. I'm dubious about the recalled memories. I absolutely think the Catholic church was protecting itself and what they did to Jane Doe because of that was horrible. I find it hard to believe that a legal a cover-up could run so wide and deep, and be kept secret for so long.

The above is just my opinion.
 
It wasn't clear how many of Jane Doe's memories were repressed memories and how many were memories she always knew were there; but she refused to allow herself to think about for most of her life. I got the feeling that most of them were ones that she did remember, but wouldn't acknowledge to herself or anyone else -- as if they couldn't hurt her and didn't have to be real, if she never spoke of them.

Since the memory about the body seemed to be the one that was definitely repressed, I will admit that I was the most skeptical of that one. I did have the exact feeling as another poster (Sorry, I can't remember who) mentioned about how she may have felt guilt and conjured up the memory, because she always felt that SHE killed Cathy by telling her secret, so she imagine that she saw her dead body. At the same time, I also think Maskell was sick and cocky enough to have done something like that. I could go either way on whether or not she actually saw the body.

I still don't remember hearing about a second girl who said she also was taken to see the body. Did she tell the story before or after Jane Doe? Did she know anything about what Jane had said; and did her story match exactly? I just don't recall that point in the documentary. It seemed that Jane Doe's revelation was such a dramatic moment in the documentary that I'm surprised they glossed over another girl recalling the same thing.


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As far as the two uncles.....

My instinct tells me that only ONE (if any) of the stories from the uncles are the truth.

I could see Edgar as a person who likes to insert himself into drama and try to make himself look like a badass by telling stories about how he murdered someone, even if he had nothing to do with it. It wouldn't bother him for his family to wonder if he was a murderer. He would think it was funny. I could easily see a person like that calling into a radio station, pretending to have information that he doesn't actually have.

On the other hand, he WAS trying to pick up middle school girls. That part is a fact. He could have been part of the pedophile ring and did what Maskell told him to do with Cathy, who threatened their fun. If he was part of it, then his cop buddies (who were also part of the ring) didn't help cover up his crime at the middle school.

I can't see what Billy's motive would have been to murder Cathy, since he was gay. He wouldn't have been a rejected lover and probably wasn't interested in the Keough school girls. The only thing I can think of is that Maskell was, somehow, providing him (and possibly Skippy) with underage boys; and used that as leverage to get him to kill his neighbor. If that was the case, then the guilt could have driven him insane. (I don't know what Maskell's sexuality was, since he seemed to molest both girls and boys. I suppose he was simply a pedophile who didn't care if they were boys or girls. Maybe boys were even his preference, since we've heard about incidents with boys before he was transferred to Keough. The church probably sent him there, because it was an all-girls' school, and they thought he would be free from temptation.)

It's also possible that Billy had an undiagnosed mental illness that surfaced after the trauma of his neighbor being murdered. He may have imagined that he did it and was haunted by her.

I don't know what to make of the nephew's memories. As others have said, it seems that Russell should have been there at that time; and I doubt they would have left her as a witness with only a warning about not talking.

I seriously doubt that both Edgar AND Billy worked together to kill Cathy; but if both of their stories are to be believed, that's the only way it could have happened. And, if that was the case, why didn't the nephew remember Edgar being there? Is there a chance that Edgar could be Skippy? Why didn't the man interviewing Edgar show him a picture of Billy and ask if he knew him?

In conclusion, I'm very skeptical of both uncle stories; but I'm not ruling them out entirely. If either of them are telling the truth, then they could have done something to Cathy entirely of their own accord and had nothing to do with Maskell. BUT, I don't think the cover-up would have happened if Maskell and his police buddies weren't involved in some way.

I want to know more about the argument that happened between the priests and Cathy the night before she was killed. How credible was the witness who told that story???



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Dawning3 said:
The story about the vagina was indeed bizarre, but I believe Koob. The police were either corrupt or they were using repulsive tactics to try to get him to confess. Either way, they wanted to intimidate him. Most likely, the police officer used something that resembled a vagina for his disgusting stunt. It's too crazy for Koob to make up.
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I see this mentioned but must've missed it, what's the vagina thing?
 
Springrain said:
I see this mentioned but must've missed it, what's the vagina thing?
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Gerry Koob said that an officer taunted him by leaving the room and returning with a newspaper that he opened to reveal what he said was Sister Cathy's vagina. Gerry said that he could never forgive the officer for that.


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Dawning3 said:
It seemed like the officer was trying to symbolically say, "We know you had sex with her! HERE'S that vagina you loved so much!"




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When Koob said the officer had her vagina wrapped up in newspaper, I thought BS! How would that even happen? And didn't the Medical Examiner say that her body was too decomposed to determine if she was sexually assaulted? I think the officer was lying, I don't know what he had wrapped in that newspaper, but it could have been anything.
 
Hi my fellow WebSleuths,

I have a few unanswered questions/theories to run by you all ....

Joyce Malecki’s murder was committed, I believe, to lead the cops and more importantly the public in the direction of a serial. To cover up the real reason Sister Cathy was murdered. I don’t believe the cops were going to properly investigate in this case, but a plausible explanation for Sister Cathy’s murder would have put less pressure on The Police Department to solve the murder. I wonder how, if this is the case, the murderers selected Joyce as the victim as there seems to be no apparent solid connection between Joyce and Sister Cathy that we can find. - Can anyone offer any plausible connection between the two?

I also believe it is possible that the letter sent to Cathy’s sister by Cathy could have been the key to unlocking the whole case. I have read many posts where some others have put forward the case that Cathy would not endanger her sister, as she was protective. For me, I think that this is the only person she trusted fully, to disclose the information that she knew which ultimately, I believe got her killed.

The letter sister Cathy wrote to Gerry Koob has puzzled me from the very beginning. Gerry has maintained that he and Sister Cathy had a platonic relationship however I find it strange that a nun would discuss her period in a letter to a man. I believe she was late on her period, after an encounter with Gerry. The mention of her wanting to have his children at the end also stuck in my mind, was she hoping she was pregnant?

Gerry Koobs interview struck me, I felt he was over-compensating. The story about the engagement never rang true, why would she say no to a man she confessed her love to in the letter? I believe he added this story to convince us that his feelings towards Sister Cathy were as strong as hers. I also don’t believe his recollection of the time line the night Sister Cathy disappeared. It was over-rehearsed, almost mechanical. As was his friends, when asked on the phone with Cathy’s sister to provide the time line. His wife’s answers to the questions during the interview also struck me as strange.

Does anyone know if Gerry Koobs DNA was ever collected/tested? I know since the crime half a dozen men’s DNA has been tested but did we ever get a list of these men?

Apologies if these questions have been answered either here or in the docu-series itself. Over the next week I endeavour to watch again, knowing what I know now and try to answer some of my own and your questions. I will keep you all posted!
 
SomeoneElse333 said:
I felt the same way. When I watched the documentary I came here expecting their to be Pages upon pages of post stating Way Way Back.

I'm not sure what to believe about maskell. I would not be surprised if he ordered someone to kill Sr. Cathy and stood there and watched it happen.

I have no doubt that there was abuse. I'm dubious about the recalled memories. I absolutely think the Catholic church was protecting itself and what they did to Jane Doe because of that was horrible. I find it hard to believe that a legal a cover-up could run so wide and deep, and be kept secret for so long.

The above is just my opinion.
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I definitely believe Maskell was involved in Sr. Cathy's death. What I'm not so sure about is whether or not he did the actual killing. Like you said, it's possible he got someone to kill her for him.
 
HoneyWest said:
I don't know. I'm thinking it hasn't been confirmed that she was actually sexually assaulted, but some signs were there, like her skirt being up.
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That's had to call since her body was outside for so long.


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Total speculation here, based on what I've read and seen: I believe Jane Doe did have some regression therapy, given the way she speaks of her younger self at times almost as a separate person. She never specifically says what the therapy she received in the early 90s was like, but this seems likely given the time frame. She certainly says that she would often dwell in the dark and by herself on particular moments that she wanted to remember "more" about. That's not really regression therapy, but it is somewhat related.
 
What gave me pause, and I can't quote her directly, was when she said something like "maybe I can remember a little bit more." Even in context, that didn't sit well with me. I don't doubt that something awful happened to her. I just have hackles about how the regression aspect pieces in.

The above is just my opinion.
 
Just finished watching this and I can't believe there aren't more posts here! Would love to get the two women investigating the case to come and join us here.

Also, some of the above comments around the sex abuse victims' testimony are veering very close to breaching websleuths' 'victim friendly' policy. Would love some input from a mod as to what's appropriate when discussing the recovered memories.
 
sunnynz said:
Just finished watching this and I can't believe there aren't more posts here! Would love to get the two women investigating the case to come and join us here.

Also, some of the above comments around the sex abuse victims' testimony are veering very close to breaching websleuths' 'victim friendly' policy. Would love some input from a mod as to what's appropriate when discussing the recovered memories.
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I still have 2 episodes to go and am not fully convinced the potential suspects mentioned thus far are likely killers. Will reserve judgment til after I see the rest.

As someone who is personally familiar with childhood sex abuse, I found the testimony of these women very believable. There were so many consistencies among the various women's stories as well as outside corroboration from other students and faculty. Especially noteworthy were the reactions of some of the victims when news broke about the beginning of the sex abuse investigation. Many of these women were immediately delighted and relieved. You could tell this abuse had been weighing on their minds for many years, even though they seldom, if ever, spoke of it to anyone.
 
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