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[Rain on my Parade]

1. Thanks, I think I'd forgotten about that. I think I've forgotten about LOTS from this case!
2. Too cold. Of course...snow!
3. Indeedy!
4. I have no idea what that is, but I'm prepared to accept your answer.

Thanks for all the answers!

Your very welcome.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

I have looked at this picture many times. I noticed the grip Patsy had on Jonbenet’s little arm. This is the same location we have seen bruises on Jonbenet.
Pin on Of Long Ago
https://pin.it/3cvva6E

What I failed to notice was the bike behind the chair. I do believe this is Burke’s bike.

 

[UKGuy]

I have looked at this picture many times. I noticed the grip Patsy had on Jonbenet’s little arm. This is the same location we have seen bruises on Jonbenet.
Pin on Of Long Ago
https://pin.it/3cvva6E

What I failed to notice was the bike behind the chair. I do believe this is Burke’s bike.

Rain on my Parade,
It might be, but why would BPD miss it later?

It might be Patsy's bike as her handlebars are offset from the center as they are in this picture, the bars also have the same aluminium finish.

You can see Patsy's and JonBenet's bikes in the early morning Christmas photograph, where she is standing astride in her pajamas with her arms spread out.

What feature of the bike makes you think it is Burke's?

BTW, Burke taking photographs of JonBenet early Christmas morning tells us he was no stranger to photographing JonBenet.

Consider the orphaned album of photographs in the basement?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,
It might be, but why would BPD miss it later?

It might be Patsy's bike as her handlebars are offset from the center as they are in this picture, the bars also have the same aluminium finish.

You can see Patsy's and JonBenet's bikes in the early morning Christmas photograph, where she is standing astride in her pajamas with her arms spread out.

What feature of the bike makes you think it is Burke's?

BTW, Burke taking photographs of JonBenet early Christmas morning tells us he was no stranger to photographing JonBenet.

Consider the orphaned album of photographs in the basement?

.

UKGuy,
I believe you are correct. Apparently they moved Patsy’s bike. I simply never noticed the bike in the picture. I was paying to much attention to that grip Patsy had on Jonbenet’s arm.
Just a little FYI, I’m starting to see more connect the dots to PDI then perhaps BDI.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
I believe you are correct. Apparently they moved Patsy’s bike. I simply never noticed the bike in the picture. I was paying to much attention to that grip Patsy had on Jonbenet’s arm.
Just a little FYI, I’m starting to see more connect the dots to PDI then perhaps BDI.

Rain on my Parade,
There is no doubt Patsy played a major role in JonBenet's death, possibly even aspyxiating her with the garrote, that's pretty gruesome for a mother.

From the forensic evidence released to date, Patsy has contributed the most, particularly with her fibers embedded into the knotting of the ligature.

Steve Thomas thought the case was PDI, Don't go there pal was Patsy's response, as there is no smoking gun, the case might be PDI?

If it is PDI just what explains the size-12's, or JonBenet dressed in Burke's long johns?

Then there is the vaginal trauma along with prior internal injuries all backed up with MEs opinions and lab tests?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

If it is PDI just what explains the size-12's, or JonBenet dressed in Burke's long johns?

UKGuy,
Patsy knew where those size 12 bloomies were located. As far as Burke’s thermal pants well ... she did say she dressed her in those. Perhaps she had moments of truth.

If Patsy did choke JB then she was obviously have a psychotic episode. Whoever killed and tortured JB (that night) couldn’t have been in their right mind.
From my understanding the experts would have us believe that JB was struck and then strangled. But, there is this:

FINAL DIAGNOSIS:
I. Ligature strangulation
A. Circumferential ligature with associated ligature furrow of neck
B. Abrasions and petechial hemorrhages, neck
C. Petechial hemorrhages, conjunctival surfaces of eyes and skin of face
Conclusions:
The petechial hemorrhages can only result from strangulation.
I will stick to my guns that she was manually strangled by grabbing her collar, twisting it while digging their fist into her neck. Then struck over the head and then finally her life was taken by the ligature.
perhaps you are correct IYO that it all started in JB bedroom. It no longer seems far fetched to me.
I do not understand if PDI; then why did JR cover for her?
Was he in to deep before he realized she did it, perhaps.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Patsy knew where those size 12 bloomies were located. As far as Burke’s thermal pants well ... she did say she dressed her in those. Perhaps she had moments of truth.

If Patsy did choke JB then she was obviously have a psychotic episode. Whoever killed and tortured JB (that night) couldn’t have been in their right mind.
From my understanding the experts would have us believe that JB was struck and then strangled. But, there is this:

FINAL DIAGNOSIS:
I. Ligature strangulation
A. Circumferential ligature with associated ligature furrow of neck
B. Abrasions and petechial hemorrhages, neck
C. Petechial hemorrhages, conjunctival surfaces of eyes and skin of face
Conclusions:
The petechial hemorrhages can only result from strangulation.
I will stick to my guns that she was manually strangled by grabbing her collar, twisting it while digging their fist into her neck. Then struck over the head and then finally her life was taken by the ligature.
perhaps you are correct IYO that it all started in JB bedroom. It no longer seems far fetched to me.
I do not understand if PDI; then why did JR cover for her?
Was he in to deep before he realized she did it, perhaps.

I do not understand if PDI; then why did JR cover for her?
Was he in to deep before he realized she did it, perhaps.

Most definitely began in JonBenet's bedroom, she was the focus of attention, albeit as a victim she was unaware of this.

It could be the case is really JDI+PDI each with their own abuse agenda but are tied to each other, not so much to cover up, more as backup?

The thing is if the case is not BDI then it can only be one or both parents that Count IV applies:

COUNT IV
On or about December 25, and December 26, 1996 in Boulder County, Colorado, John Bennett Ramsey (or alternately, Patricia Paugh Ramsey) did unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey, a child under the age of sixteen.

As to Count IV, child abuse resulting in death:

A TRUE BILL

Count IV is saying one or both parents knew in advance that JonBenet was put in a position of extreme danger.

JR is only going to back Patsy up if he also has skin in the game, else why allow yourself to become a Persona Non Grata?

So did Patsy lose it with JonBenet over the clothing issue, JonBenet had been developing her own sense of dress style, etc?

Was Patsy jealous of the attention JonBenet received?

I will stick to my guns that she was manually strangled by grabbing her collar, twisting it while digging their fist into her neck. Then struck over the head and then finally her life was taken by the ligature.

I agree with the manual strangling in the manner you describe, the rest is homicide stepwise refinement, resulting in the tweaking and ending with JonBenet in the wine-cellar, most likely courtesy of John, mid-morning, how could Fleet White miss JonBenet wrapped in a WHITE blanket, never mind the decomposing scent, or the smell of urine?

The way I read Count IV is that both parents colluded to abuse JonBenet, or that one agreed to JonBenet being alone in the company of one of the parents knowing full well she was going to be abused?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

So did Patsy lose it with JonBenet over the clothing issue, JonBenet had been developing her own sense of dress style, etc?

Was Patsy jealous of the attention JonBenet received?

UKGuy,
The red sweater obviously hit an emotional cord with PR. My take on this is perhaps PR had this planned out. Killing her as the sacrificial lamb on Christmas Day. She could have already written the note except the tie in with the movie Nick in Time that was aired 7:30 p.m. in Boulder and watched by Mr. Cox @ the White’s party = Listen carefully and association of the daughter being kidnapped.

I personally don’t believe PR was jealous of JB. There would be one exception here and that is if JR was the sexual abuser. I just don’t believe he was. He was seldom at home and as I have pointed out numerous times I believe the sexual abuse stemmed from PR family. I would go so far as to link DP, NP, PP and PR as the sexual deviants in this case.

I can see JR covering for PR because of this 911 statement:
PR to BR “What did you do” to which BR replies “What DID you find”. PR perhaps pointed the finger @ BR and JR felt he had no other option but to protect his son. But perhaps you are correct since both parents were indicted on abuse that resulted in the death of JB and covering for the person. Perhaps JR knew PR and/or family members were guilty of abusing JB and told her to put a stop to it. DP was at the Christmas party on the 23rd and often babysat for the children as did NP.

We are both wondering about FW. He will probably be the one to step forward when JR passes!

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
The red sweater obviously hit an emotional cord with PR. My take on this is perhaps PR had this planned out. Killing her as the sacrificial lamb on Christmas Day. She could have already written the note except the tie in with the movie Nick in Time that was aired 7:30 p.m. in Boulder and watched by Mr. Cox @ the White’s party = Listen carefully and association of the daughter being kidnapped.

I personally don’t believe PR was jealous of JB. There would be one exception here and that is if JR was the sexual abuser. I just don’t believe he was. He was seldom at home and as I have pointed out numerous times I believe the sexual abuse stemmed from PR family. I would go so far as to link DP, NP, PP and PR as the sexual deviants in this case.

I can see JR covering for PR because of this 911 statement:
PR to BR “What did you do” to which BR replies “What DID you find”. PR perhaps pointed the finger @ BR and JR felt he had no other option but to protect his son. But perhaps you are correct since both parents were indicted on abuse that resulted in the death of JB and covering for the person. Perhaps JR knew PR and/or family members were guilty of abusing JB and told her to put a stop to it. DP was at the Christmas party on the 23rd and often babysat for the children as did NP.

We are both wondering about FW. He will probably be the one to step forward when JR passes!

Rain on my Parade,
I interpret the Grand Jury Count of Child Abuse as saying the parents did not act independently.

In plain english they knew that JonBenet's welfare was seriously endangered.

Patently this means the GJ knew something that we do not, otherwise how can they assert either parent had prior knowledge of the danger JonBenet was being placed in?

There has been the suggestion that JonBenet had been in therapy and revealed who had been abusing her, and that the parents had been given specific medical advice regarding JonBenet?

If Fleet White goes public after JR passing this will be because he thinks the case is JDI, otherwise if he knows the case is PDI or BDI, then he has nothing to gain, also he might be contravening Colorado Statute?

I reckon when Fleet White looked into the wine-cellar and saw nothing unusual there, he was making an accurate observation.

I think John added JonBenet later that morning, hence the white blanket and pink barbie nightgown, possibly a successful attempt at further postmortem staging.

JonBenet afficionados might like to reflect on John tweaking the staging behind Patsy's back, what kind of agenda would prompt this?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,
I interpret the Grand Jury Count of Child Abuse as saying the parents did not act independently.

In plain english they knew that JonBenet's welfare was seriously endangered.

Patently this means the GJ knew something that we do not, otherwise how can they assert either parent had prior knowledge of the danger JonBenet was being placed in?

There has been the suggestion that JonBenet had been in therapy and revealed who had been abusing her, and that the parents had been given specific medical advice regarding JonBenet?

If Fleet White goes public after JR passing this will be because he thinks the case is JDI, otherwise if he knows the case is PDI or BDI, then he has nothing to gain, also he might be contravening Colorado Statute?

I reckon when Fleet White looked into the wine-cellar and saw nothing unusual there, he was making an accurate observation.

I think John added JonBenet later that morning, hence the white blanket and pink barbie nightgown, possibly a successful attempt at further postmortem staging.

JonBenet afficionados might like to reflect on John tweaking the staging behind Patsy's back, what kind of agenda would prompt this?

.

UKGuy,
Perhaps JR tweaking could be due to him being the abuser. The day she was discovered, I recall my first instinct was to say JDI. All those hours go by and then he rushes straight to the discovery of her body as to not be denied viewing as last rights. I just don’t see it this way. Being a control freak perhaps once he was notified of her death, she was wiped down (his shirt fibers found in her labia). PR did say in her interview that she waited for instructions from John at the bottom of the spiral staircase as he came from the basement before the police were called. Perhaps she was angry with John (the RN would reflect that). Honestly, the only way I can see one covering for the other in the death of JB is if both were guilty of abusing her, or they were covering for BR (perhaps JR was informed BDI that morning).
Also,
Burke could have caught his mom taking JB quietly down to the basement, took out his knife and hit JB on the head when he went downstairs to finish his toy. Perhaps PR wasn’t aware that BR was awake. It seems more logical that PR discovered BR knife in the diaper cabinet since the diapers were hanging out of the cabinet that morning. There was a grapefruit knife on the 2nd floor counter (according to JR: it didn’t belong there). I don’t find that far fetched. Considering all this it could have been PDI and perhaps JR was indicted because he participated in the final staging of JB.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Perhaps JR tweaking could be due to him being the abuser. The day she was discovered, I recall my first instinct was to say JDI. All those hours go by and then he rushes straight to the discovery of her body as to not be denied viewing as last rights. I just don’t see it this way. Being a control freak perhaps once he was notified of her death, she was wiped down (his shirt fibers found in her labia). PR did say in her interview that she waited for instructions from John at the bottom of the spiral staircase as he came from the basement before the police were called. Perhaps she was angry with John (the RN would reflect that). Honestly, the only way I can see one covering for the other in the death of JB is if both were guilty of abusing her, or they were covering for BR (perhaps JR was informed BDI that morning).
Also,
Burke could have caught his mom taking JB quietly down to the basement, took out his knife and hit JB on the head when he went downstairs to finish his toy. Perhaps PR wasn’t aware that BR was awake. It seems more logical that PR discovered BR knife in the diaper cabinet since the diapers were hanging out of the cabinet that morning. There was a grapefruit knife on the 2nd floor counter (according to JR: it didn’t belong there). I don’t find that far fetched. Considering all this it could have been PDI and perhaps JR was indicted because he participated in the final staging of JB.

Rain on my Parade,

Considering all this it could have been PDI and perhaps JR was indicted because he participated in the final staging of JB.

Yes this probably where the Grand Jury finally arrived: They thought they had enough evidence on the parents for child abuse and assisting an offender, etc.

My take on Burke's story about going back downstairs to finish his toy is that he is offering a postmortem explanation for the forensic evidence that links him to the wine-cellar.

This can be either his own or his father's account, see Dr. Phil interview?

The critical aspect to the GJ's True Bills is we know JonBenet had been sexually assaulted.

From this follows that one parent or both agreed for JonBenet to be alone with another parent Christmas Night : did unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey, a child under the age of sixteen.

So how did the GJ know that the situation posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health prior to it occurring?

i.e. it was not an accidental outcome.

Is it not interesting that the True Bills do not mention Sexual Assault?

Is it possible the GJ could not decide on the Sexual Assault, despite having two professional opinions from MEs who actually examined JonBenet?

All very strange indeed.

.

 

[cynic]

The latest regurgitation of “Smit & Co.’s” oft-debunked narrative.

JonBenet Ramsey: What Really Happened?

 

[twall]

Video: ‘The List: Who Killed JonBenét?’ | 20/20 Event Special airs Friday 9|8c on ABC

20/20 airs 01/15/2021 features Lou Smit's daughter

 

[cynic]

Grand Juror, Jonathan Webb, speaks out...

“In October 1999, grand jurors assigned to the case went back home, sworn to silence. The eight women and four men had convened regularly for 13 months. They heard from dozens of witnesses, considered 30,000 pieces of evidence. All with one question in mind: Who killed JonBenet?”
Court papers: Grand jury in 1999 sought to indict JonBenet Ramsey's parents

“John Douglas, who described a portion of his testimony before the grand jury in his book, 'Law and Disorder,' also purportedly shared his theory about the single-issue perpetrator who held a personal grudge against John Ramsey and his business interests.
In spite of considering all of the evidence and intruder theories presented by Smit and Douglas, I think it is important to note that the grand jury still voted to indict the parents on two criminal counts of child abuse and accessory to a crime.”
Kolar, A. James. Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped Jonbenet?

“Jonathan Webb, Louisville, CO
Jonathan Webb, Louisville. Webb is a chemical engineer who is working on his doctorate and teaching classes at the University of Colorado.”
The Denver Post Online: Today's News

“Webb is working on his doctorate in chemical engineering at CU. He likes the outdoors, reads obscure chemical engineering texts. He is married and moved here in 1995. He said he doesn't listen to radio but watches sports, CNN and the Discovery Channel on television. Webb spent five years in Indiana working for the Eli Lily drug company in research and development. He has a graduate degree from Georgia Tech. Webb said he has concerns about the time constraints of jury”
JonBenet Ramsey Murder Case: The Denver Post

 

[Rain on my Parade]

twall,
Thank you for posting this. I saw last night that I had missed its airing.

• Interesting that JAR shows up after being hidden from view for these past 24 years.
  
• Lou was right about one thing, “Something is being hidden here.”
  
• Body language here speaks volumes

The deception continues ...

 

[UKGuy]

Grand Juror, Jonathan Webb, speaks out...

“In October 1999, grand jurors assigned to the case went back home, sworn to silence. The eight women and four men had convened regularly for 13 months. They heard from dozens of witnesses, considered 30,000 pieces of evidence. All with one question in mind: Who killed JonBenet?”
Court papers: Grand jury in 1999 sought to indict JonBenet Ramsey's parents

“John Douglas, who described a portion of his testimony before the grand jury in his book, 'Law and Disorder,' also purportedly shared his theory about the single-issue perpetrator who held a personal grudge against John Ramsey and his business interests.
In spite of considering all of the evidence and intruder theories presented by Smit and Douglas, I think it is important to note that the grand jury still voted to indict the parents on two criminal counts of child abuse and accessory to a crime.”
Kolar, A. James. Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped Jonbenet?

“Jonathan Webb, Louisville, CO
Jonathan Webb, Louisville. Webb is a chemical engineer who is working on his doctorate and teaching classes at the University of Colorado.”
The Denver Post Online: Today's News

“Webb is working on his doctorate in chemical engineering at CU. He likes the outdoors, reads obscure chemical engineering texts. He is married and moved here in 1995. He said he doesn't listen to radio but watches sports, CNN and the Discovery Channel on television. Webb spent five years in Indiana working for the Eli Lily drug company in research and development. He has a graduate degree from Georgia Tech. Webb said he has concerns about the time constraints of jury”
JonBenet Ramsey Murder Case: The Denver Post

cynic,
Thanks for this. I reckon we will get a documentary once JR passes where the grand jurors in this case are interviewed. Its happened in other cases, might be the nature of the unsealed True Bills will also see daylight courtesy of the same grand jurors, then we can all decide if John Ramsey has been truthful in his numerous documentary appearances?

.

 

[Forever Young]

 

[Forever Young]

John Andrew on Dr. Oz yesterday:

I noticed someone by the username Jams Jameson is active in the comment section, going to bat for the Ramseys.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

 

[Rain on my Parade]

In case you haven’t seen this today:
Boulder officials promise arrests in riot that started with party
This is not a good sign when we see activity like this in Boulder, Co.

Just for Perspective sake to the Ramsey’s home ...

Pennsylvania Ave. and 10th street = Use google maps.
If you head directly south on 10th to Baseline and go north (take a left) first block you will find the location of 749 15th street. I believe it is the 4th house on the left.