Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #15

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  • #621
seriously? since day one, this case has centered around leaked information ...
what seems strange is the fact that it's in favor of the defense.

from SMK's link above:
(snip) ...court-appointed experts dismissed as unreliable forensic evidence crucial to the prosecution case.​

Yes seriously. What leaked information and by whom was the 'center' of the case?
Strange indeed :waitasec: , just after the 'disaster'.

Same question... who leaked it, and who interpreted the leaked information? What about the other 139 pages of 'study'? And as stated upthread... I don't find those two pieces of evidence 'crucial'. And another thing, the prosecution will be able to debate any findings by their own experts and others in the field of study. I'll wait for that before deciding anything.
 
  • #622
"Therefore, she stayed with Raffaele, with whom she smoked some marijuana. They had dinner together, but quite late, perhaps 23:00 pm. After dinner, she noticed a bit of blood on Raffaele’s hand and had the impression that ‚it had to do with blood coming from the fish‛ that they had cooked. Raffaele, after having eaten, had washed the dishes, but a break in the pipes had occurred under the sink. And water was leaking, with flooding on the floor. Since they didn’t have a mop, they decided that they would do the cleaning the next day with a mop that she could get from her house." (p. 67)

"They ate dinner, ‚but very late‛ (page 77). They ate fish and salad. Then, while Raffaele was washing the dishes, from the sink, a leak was noticed: ‚water was leaking below and he looked at it; he turned off the water and then looked below the sink, and this pipe had become loose, so the water that was coming from the faucet was leaking out.‛" (p. 69)

"In the course of her witness examination she indicated that they had dinner around 21:30 pm to 22:00 pm; then she put the time further out, at about 23:00 pm. But this claim is contradicted by the declarations made by Francesco Sollecito. He, as noted, stated that he spoke with his son on the phone at 20:42 pm (phone records corroborate his statement), who told him "he was with Amanda" (p. 16, hearing of June 19, 2009). Indeed, later on, around midnight of that "November 1", knowing that he was with this girl, he limited himself to just sending him a text message (p. 19, hearing cited above). Francesco Sollecito also explained that, during the 8:42 pm call, his son mentioned "that while he was washing dishes he realised he had a water spill" (p. 45)." This fact, which was also mentioned by Amanda Knox (who links it to the need to fetch the mop to dry up the floor), is relevant because it allows us to determine the time of dinner as being around 8:30 pm and before the call at 8:42 pm, in which Raffaele tells his father that while washing the dishes he had a leak from the sink. (p. 78)

So Jovana Popovic, after finishing her lesson at the Tre Archi, which ended at 8:20 pm, returned on foot to the home of Raffaele, to tell him that she no longer needed to be accompanied to the station. It took her about twenty minutes to walk the distance, so she arrived at around 8:40 pm, again finding Amanda, who opened the door and let her know that Raffaele was in the bathroom. (p. 64)

http://truejustice.org/ee/documents/perugia/TheMasseiReport.pdf

...I knew there was reason I wasn't tied down to the dinner being done before 8:40!!!

Does anyone else find it strange that in the MOT Massei bends over backwards to put the dinner before 8:40? He stresses all the information to lead the reader to the conclusion that dinner was definitely eaten around 8:30. He massages all testimony to accentuate that inference, but he neglects or disregards anything that might cast doubt on this conclusion.

So at approximately the same time, you have an eyewitness at the house and you have someone on a cellphone and whose testimony does Massei emphasize? Why of course the person who has no idea what is actually happening at the house at the moment. There is no reference to Ms. Popovic's recollection of if the couple was in the middle of dinner, had started to have dinner, had finished dinner, or if the sink was leaking.

This passage is a microcosm of the entire report. The Quintavalle and Curatolo puff pieces highlight the lengths Massei will go to playup the most inconsequential or unreliable testimony in order to create the illusion of significance and veracity. When all you are left with is an empty top hat.

The key to reading the report in which they throw in everything but the kitchen sink (or yeah they threw that it in too) is to disregard the constant misdirection of the overwhelming "evidence" and look for what is left out for that is the crux of The Case That Wasn't There.

Thank you! Yes, that is but one of the passages where I went "Huh?" while reading the report. Massei often throws in a leap of logic and then scurries by quickly, hoping no one will notice.
 
  • #623
  • #624
You mean, RG, though, but I get your point.

Yes, I absolutely did. I have no idea why I would substitute PL for RG like that.

Perhaps I was momentarily possessed by the spirt of an Italian carabinieri!

Thank you for the correction.
 
  • #625
You are gonna be 'razzed' out :floorlaugh: at this pace.
 
  • #626
Yes, I absolutely did. I have no idea why I would substitute PL for RG like that.

Perhaps I was momentarily possessed by the spirt of an Italian carabinieri!

Thank you for the correction.

Well I'd be glad to give you a 'smack' on the head :slap: ... as you know ;) .
 
  • #627
Depends on how much glass was on the window sill. I would hold onto the sill if that was an option and drop from the sill to cut the drop almost in half, but if there was glass I would have to jump off.

It also depends on how much light you have. It is much easier if you have light, if I had no light I would have to jump first instead of holding onto the sill. What you absolutely don't want to do is hold onto the ledge and slip and fall on your side, because that would be much worse than jumping from the same height.

The trick is to land on your feet and don't try to hold the drop but roll as quickly as you can onto the ground. That disperses the g-force on your calves and ankles, which creates problems if you try and stick your jump.

I used to climb buildings when I was kid (schools mostly). I used to jump off the bleachers when I was bored, and I could go rows higher than anyone else would try. I used to jump out of my window in my second story room to freak out my mom, because she couldn't figure out how I got out of my room.

In college, I would drop from the third story of our dorm for bets and after awhile people would come from all over the dorm to watch. The RA caught wind of it and made me quit. Which was a good thing, because my calves were started to get overstressed. It was probably just a matter of time before I broke something.

After college, the only thing I have done in terms of climbing buildings is to break into my own apartment, when I forgot the key. I climbed a tree recently to get a cat and got stuck coming down. It was only a 5 foot drop, but it was over a bunch of bushes, so it was hard to get enough swing to clear the bushes. I also forgot to roll, and I am getting old and fat.

I must sound like a nut:waitasec:

Oh, no! All perfectly normal. But I do imagine it was a challenge to be your parent. :)

I'll just add that for RG trying to leave MK's apartment, it would have been very difficult for him to locate footholds in the dark.
 
  • #628
Not afraid to discuss it, but Guede spoke as I knew he would. I wish I could see it as you do, Otto, and did, originally - but too many questions for assurance of guilt....if only the clock had not proven to discount their not calling 112 until after the postal police. and many other facts which fell: The washed clothes, the man who saw Amanda buying bleach. These fell. This was the beginning of the end for me... :(

agreed... everything has fallen and that's why lame issues keep being brought back up (e.g. Amanda had strange friends. Amanda pointed the finger at an innocent man..)

as it turned out, the boys downstairs had the strange friends and as far as the whole PL debacle... Amanda was given a year, she served it - time to move on!
 
  • #629
No I didn't say... or think anything about BF. :truce: Come on link-buddy.

I just think picking a few select parts (leaked anonymously) of some 140 pages 'by the court' before the day it was supposed to be even submitted is
quite strange. I don't even think completely throwing out both pieces of evidence exonerates AK and RS (they have many more 'problems'), I am just curious of the 'leak' and by whom. I have never liked using the knife evidence at all, I didn't really think it was even necessary for a conviction. But when RS made his 'pricking' statement, I definately thought it might be a main part of the crime... he sure did. As for the bra clasp, I think the dna evidence on it was good, because there was no reason at all for his dna profile to be on the clasp... but I also found it incomprehensible that it could not be retested because of 'bad' storage since there was supposed to have been an abundant sample of his dna on it. As many here think, I have never suggested that these two pieces made or broke the case. I find the lack of an alibi (no computer use) and the evasive/contradictory statements/lying much more 'suspicious' :innocent: . I also find comparing the email home to her first statement to prosecutors and judges quite telling. There ya go :twocents: .

Really??? Huh, that's fascinating. I find those parts of the case to be the weakest in terms of convicting someone. I guess because I've seen so many people lie badly for no good reason.

If those two pieces of evidence are ruled out, would you as a jury member believe they restrained Meredith and also attacked her with a knife? Or would you believe they were there and witnessed it and did nothing? Or something else?
 
  • #630
Still no reply on what leaked information was 'central' to the case?
 
  • #631
  • #632
  • #633
Really??? Huh, that's fascinating. I find those parts of the case to be the weakest in terms of convicting someone. I guess because I've seen so many people lie badly for no good reason.

If those two pieces of evidence are ruled out, would you as a jury member believe they restrained Meredith and also attacked her with a knife? Or would you believe they were there and witnessed it and did nothing? Or something else?

Yes, I believe they were both there with RG... but I'm not a jury member and I have not seen all the evidence.

I find it 'fascinating' you find no alibi of computer use, mixed dna of AK and Meredith, the luminol barefoot prints, blatant lies, staged break-in, evidence of multiple attackers, and the bathmat print unconvincing.
 
  • #634
Not afraid to discuss it, but Guede spoke as I knew he would. I wish I could see it as you do, Otto, and did, originally - but too many questions for assurance of guilt....if only the clock had not proven to discount their not calling 112 until after the postal police. and many other facts which fell: The washed clothes, the man who saw Amanda buying bleach. These fell. This was the beginning of the end for me... :(

Who expected Guede to say anything else? No one I can recall.

Oh, sure, it would have been nice if he had suddenly told the truth, but I don't remember anyone predicting that was going to happen.
 
  • #635
  • #636
  • #637
Yes seriously. What leaked information and by whom was the 'center' of the case?
Strange indeed :waitasec: , just after the 'disaster'.

Same question... who leaked it, and who interpreted the leaked information? What about the other 139 pages of 'study'? And as stated upthread... I don't find those two pieces of evidence 'crucial'. And another thing, the prosecution will be able to debate any findings by their own experts and others in the field of study. I'll wait for that before deciding anything.

We went over this yesterday. I posted a long list of lies and half-truths leaked to the medi media that could have influenced the jury, you denied the leaks had any influence. Now you are crying foul, not consistent IMO.

These are independent experts appointed by the court, not sure how the prosecution can invalidate their findings.
 
  • #638
Who 'leaked' the information?
Why would it be 'leaked' before it was presented to the court tomorrow (IIRC was the day)?
Why would it be made public before the court has it and before they give their reports on the analysis in July?
Will the person(s) responsible for the 'leak' get into trouble for this?

Can contamination EVER be completely ruled out in any case or piece of evidence? Isn't anything possible?

Given everything ILE has leaked in the past, why are you even asking questions now?
 
  • #639
  • #640
We went over this yesterday. I posted a long list of lies and half-truths leaked to the medi media that could have influenced the jury, you denied the leaks had any influence. Now you are crying foul, not consistent IMO.

These are independent experts appointed by the court, not sure how the prosecution can invalidate their findings.

My question was in reply to miley's post.
 
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