Found Deceased Mexico - Kevin, 41, Amy, 38, Sterling, 12, & Adrianna Sharp, 7, Tulum, 15 March 2018

Who is responsible for maintenance in an HOA? Many people own comdos in Mexico that they may use once in a great while. They rent them out the rest of the year. The owner may not see his property for months,

What responsiblity does the homeonwer have in this kind of situation?
Not the HOA, perhaps the leasing management company is responsible for repairs, cleaning, maintenance if agreed to in a contract. The question is who authorized the shoddy installation or repair of the water heater? Owner, leasing agent, developer?

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Not the HOA, perhaps the leasing management company is responsible for repairs, cleaning, maintenance if agreed to in a contract. The question is who authorized the shoddy installation or repair of the water heater? Owner, leasing agent, developer?

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While I do agree that the condo owner is responsible for upkeep, maintenance and repairs, this condo was just over 4 years old. If there had never been an issue with the water heater in the past 4 years, and the condo owner never had to hire anyone, or have the management company call anyone, to repair it, then I would have to assume it was installed that way by the company the developer contracted to install it.

If that is the case, I would think the developer would be liable as no proper inspection was done prior to the owner taking possession, and the entire development needs to be inspected for this and possible other problems within the units.

Being as this is Mexico however, I'm not sure that would happen. I hope this tragedy is enough to prompt all condo owners to get this checked out on their own. And to install and maintain smoke and carbon monoxide detectors in their units. Not because it is the law, which it is not in Mexico, but because it's the right thing to do as a responsible landlord.

I did read some other rental ads for condos in this community. For some, smoke and CO detectors were actually listed as a safety feature. So there are some owners who had taken it upon themselves to install them prior to this tragedy.

MOO
 
While I do agree that the condo owner is responsible for upkeep, maintenance and repairs, this condo was just over 4 years old. If there had never been an issue with the water heater in the past 4 years, and the condo owner never had to hire anyone, or have the management company call anyone, to repair it, then I would have to assume it was installed that way by the company the developer contracted to install it.

If that is the case, I would think the developer would be liable as no proper inspection was done prior to the owner taking possession, and the entire development needs to be inspected for this and possible other problems within the units.

Being as this is Mexico however, I'm not sure that would happen. I hope this tragedy is enough to prompt all condo owners to get this checked out on their own. And to install and maintain smoke and carbon monoxide detectors in their units. Not because it is the law, which it is not in Mexico, but because it's the right thing to do as a responsible landlord.

I did read some other rental ads for condos in this community. For some, smoke and CO detectors were actually listed as a safety feature. So there are some owners who had taken it upon themselves to install them prior to this tragedy.

MOO

I wonder what the laws are in Mexico concerning 'mandatory home inspections' during a home sale. I know that in California, there is a requirement that a professional home inspection must be done before a bank will offer a loan. Our inspector checked the water heater and plumbing and electrical, and took pictures to document their condition.

That water heater in the deadly condo would never pass any kind of basic inspection. Wouldn't the new owners take a look before they purchased the unit?
 
While I do agree that the condo owner is responsible for upkeep, maintenance and repairs, this condo was just over 4 years old. If there had never been an issue with the water heater in the past 4 years, and the condo owner never had to hire anyone, or have the management company call anyone, to repair it, then I would have to assume it was installed that way by the company the developer contracted to install it.

If that is the case, I would think the developer would be liable as no proper inspection was done prior to the owner taking possession, and the entire development needs to be inspected for this and possible other problems within the units.

Being as this is Mexico however, I'm not sure that would happen. I hope this tragedy is enough to prompt all condo owners to get this checked out on their own. And to install and maintain smoke and carbon monoxide detectors in their units. Not because it is the law, which it is not in Mexico, but because it's the right thing to do as a responsible landlord.

I did read some other rental ads for condos in this community. For some, smoke and CO detectors were actually listed as a safety feature. So there are some owners who had taken it upon themselves to install them prior to this tragedy.

MOO

Although it might have been installed by another owner, I think when you take ownership of a home in US or Mexico, you assume responsibility for everything in the unit. That's why prospective buyers, if they're smart, hire their own home inspector and pay for a report before they buy. Then they know what they're getting and have a chance to walk away or demand the original owner make repairs.

This isn't common in Mexico (most homes are simple and people know someone/have family menbers who can inspect things), but some people are setting up home inspection businesses for expats, before they buy. You can find a few by googling.
 
The homeowner/landlord owes duties to their tenants (basically anyone who pays to rent the premises for any duration of time) to maintain safe property; they warrant by renting the property out that the appliances are safe for ordinary use. If the homeowner/landlord hired an outside company and relied on their expertise the liability may be split or shift if a jury finds it reasonable for the homeowner/landlord to rely on those experts assurance of safety. So if a maintenance company was used and the homeowner relied on them, a jury could put the blame on the company rather than the homeowner. Similarly, if the gas company did an inspection and failed to follow policy they could be found jointly liable as well. IMO this family's estate has a negligence and wrongful death claim against multiple parties, including the homeowner/landlord, any maintenance company or individual, any company or individual that installed or worked on the hot water heater, and possibly the local gas company if they had done a recent inspection or turn on of the gas line. JMO as an attorney in the US, I am not licensed anywhere in Mexico.


O/T but a personal case that is similar:

My firm had a case where we sued a homeowner/landlord who rented a property out to a gentleman and his girlfriend. They both passed away their first night in the house, before even moving all of their belongings and furniture in, due to CO poisoning from the space heater. The estate of the deceased sued the homeowner and the gas company who turned the gas back on to the house (the prior renter had only used electric). In our case the homeowner/landlord had actually installed the space heater himself, rather than hiring an outside company or individual, otherwise we would have sued that company or individual too. Turns out at some point the gas vent on the roof had been nailed down, completely sealing it and trapping all gas within the house. So we also attempted to discover the roofing company who had done work on the roof (the nails on the vent cover were identical to the nails on the roof repair) so we could also name them in the lawsuit, but we never discovered which company it was since the homeowner actually ended up passing away from natural causes shortly after the lawsuit started.

We filed suit against the homeowner stating that he should have checked the ventilation line before installing and lighting the space heater, that any reasonably prudent person in that situation would have checked for defects; and against the gas company stating their policy, which specifically required the person turning on the gas line to check the ventilation line before connecting the gas, was violated. The case settled prior to trial and both parties paid into the estates of the deceased.
 
Although it might have been installed by another owner, I think when you take ownership of a home in US or Mexico, you assume responsibility for everything in the unit. That's why prospective buyers, if they're smart, hire their own home inspector and pay for a report before they buy. Then they know what they're getting and have a chance to walk away or demand the original owner make repairs.

This isn't common in Mexico (most homes are simple and people know someone/have family menbers who can inspect things), but some people are setting up home inspection businesses for expats, before they buy. You can find a few by googling.

It could have been an all-cash deal, and requirements may not have been needed at that point. I am shocked and amazed these days that people buy houses near me and become neighbors, and they don't even have a survey or a home inspection done before they purchase.
 
The homeowner/landlord owes duties to their tenants (basically anyone who pays to rent the premises for any duration of time) to maintain safe property; they warrant by renting the property out that the appliances are safe for ordinary use. If the homeowner/landlord hired an outside company and relied on their expertise the liability may be split or shift if a jury finds it reasonable for the homeowner/landlord to rely on those experts assurance of safety. So if a maintenance company was used and the homeowner relied on them, a jury could put the blame on the company rather than the homeowner. Similarly, if the gas company did an inspection and failed to follow policy they could be found jointly liable as well. IMO this family's estate has a negligence and wrongful death claim against multiple parties, including the homeowner/landlord, any maintenance company or individual, any company or individual that installed or worked on the hot water heater, and possibly the local gas company if they had done a recent inspection or turn on of the gas line. JMO as an attorney in the US, I am not licensed anywhere in Mexico.


O/T but a personal case that is similar:

My firm had a case where we sued a homeowner/landlord who rented a property out to a gentleman and his girlfriend. They both passed away their first night in the house, before even moving all of their belongings and furniture in, due to CO poisoning from the space heater. The estate of the deceased sued the homeowner and the gas company who turned the gas back on to the house (the prior renter had only used electric). In our case the homeowner/landlord had actually installed the space heater himself, rather than hiring an outside company or individual, otherwise we would have sued that company or individual too. Turns out at some point the gas vent on the roof had been nailed down, completely sealing it and trapping all gas within the house. So we also attempted to discover the roofing company who had done work on the roof (the nails on the vent cover were identical to the nails on the roof repair) so we could also name them in the lawsuit, but we never discovered which company it was since the homeowner actually ended up passing away from natural causes shortly after the lawsuit started.

We filed suit against the homeowner stating that he should have checked the ventilation line before installing and lighting the space heater, that any reasonably prudent person in that situation would have checked for defects; and against the gas company stating their policy, which specifically required the person turning on the gas line to check the ventilation line before connecting the gas, was violated. The case settled prior to trial and both parties paid into the estates of the deceased.

The question that I wish would be investigated, by the mainstream media, as what are the laws in Mexico? It seems most of the posts are biased towards the United States, and I'm not sure what Mexico is in relation to our biases.
 
While I do agree that the condo owner is responsible for upkeep, maintenance and repairs, this condo was just over 4 years old. If there had never been an issue with the water heater in the past 4 years, and the condo owner never had to hire anyone, or have the management company call anyone, to repair it, then I would have to assume it was installed that way by the company the developer contracted to install it.

If that is the case, I would think the developer would be liable as no proper inspection was done prior to the owner taking possession, and the entire development needs to be inspected for this and possible other problems within the units.

Being as this is Mexico however, I'm not sure that would happen. I hope this tragedy is enough to prompt all condo owners to get this checked out on their own. And to install and maintain smoke and carbon monoxide detectors in their units. Not because it is the law, which it is not in Mexico, but because it's the right thing to do as a responsible landlord.

I did read some other rental ads for condos in this community. For some, smoke and CO detectors were actually listed as a safety feature. So there are some owners who had taken it upon themselves to install them prior to this tragedy.

MOO
So agree. Hopefully all the condo owners there will get their water heaters inspected. Time will tell who did that horrible mickey mouse job.

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I wonder what the laws are in Mexico concerning 'mandatory home inspections' during a home sale. I know that in California, there is a requirement that a professional home inspection must be done before a bank will offer a loan. Our inspector checked the water heater and plumbing and electrical, and took pictures to document their condition.

That water heater in the deadly condo would never pass any kind of basic inspection. Wouldn't the new owners take a look before they purchased the unit?

Yes, banks know to inspect something before they buy it. However, that's not a law, it's just banks doing what they call 'due diligence', to protect their own investment.

I'm surprised this conversation is still focussed on Mexico, as though it must be somehow the fault of Mexico and it would never happen in the US. It does happen, and will, anywhere people are renting, or just staying in, private homes : https://getdwellwell.com/blog/3-practical-travel-tips-families-airbnb/
 
Yes, banks know to inspect something before they buy it. However, that's not a law, it's just banks doing what they call 'due diligence', to protect their own investment.

I'm surprised this conversation is still focussed on Mexico, as though it must be somehow the fault of Mexico and it would never happen in the US. It does happen, and will, anywhere people are renting, or just staying in, private homes : https://getdwellwell.com/blog/3-practical-travel-tips-families-airbnb/
We dont know much about building codes and inspections in Mexico so there is a lot of discussion about it and how this happened and who would be responsible. We are learning a lot. If we know how Mexico works we can take more steps to protect ourselves if we travel there. True it could happen here, so I will think twice before I vacation in a private home.

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Yes, banks know to inspect something before they buy it. However, that's not a law, it's just banks doing what they call 'due diligence', to protect their own investment.

I'm surprised this conversation is still focussed on Mexico, as though it must be somehow the fault of Mexico and it would never happen in the US. It does happen, and will, anywhere people are renting, or just staying in, private homes : https://getdwellwell.com/blog/3-practical-travel-tips-families-airbnb/

True. I posted a link where 3 people were killed by carbon monoxide in a hotel in North Carolina.
 
We dont know much about building codes and inspections in Mexico so there is a lot of discussion about it and how this happened and who would be responsible. We are learning a lot. If we know how Mexico works we can take more steps to protect ourselves if we travel there. True it could happen here, so I will think twice before I vacation in a private home.

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Don't think your hotel is necessarily safe. Like I said, I posted a link to where three people were killed in a hotel in NC.
 
Although it might have been installed by another owner, I think when you take ownership of a home in US or Mexico, you assume responsibility for everything in the unit. That's why prospective buyers, if they're smart, hire their own home inspector and pay for a report before they buy. Then they know what they're getting and have a chance to walk away or demand the original owner make repairs.

This isn't common in Mexico (most homes are simple and people know someone/have family menbers who can inspect things), but some people are setting up home inspection businesses for expats, before they buy. You can find a few by googling.

The condo owners purchased this condo new and took possession in November 2013 as per their ad that was posted earlier in the thread. I was at this property in November 2010 and no condos were being built at that time. If you look at the property on google maps, it appears that only one small section of the property has been developed and they are still selling condos and townhouses online that are not built yet.

Great advice about hiring your own inspector and getting a full report before taking possession of a new build. If there is cause for this service, does this mean that the developer takes no responsibility for a situation such as this?
 
There is no such thing as a mandatory home inspection when purchasing in Mexico. A foreigner can’t even get a mortgage in Mexico. The water heater in question is pretty much what they look like in Mexico. The laws are changing now but in the last 15 years this is how they were installed. The water heaters are normally located outside or in a ventilated room off of the kitchen.
 
There is no such thing as a mandatory home inspection when purchasing in Mexico. A foreigner can’t even get a mortgage in Mexico. The water heater in question is pretty much what they look like in Mexico. The laws are changing now but in the last 15 years this is how they were installed. The water heaters are normally located outside or in a ventilated room off of the kitchen.

I guess the only surprise is that it doesn't happen more often.
 
It is my understanding that in the US at least, propane does not contain CO ( carbon monoxide ) and it is flammable and potentially explosive but it is not toxic. While it is possible that leaking propane could displace enough oxygen in the air, the chemical that makes the smell would cause someone to wake and leave the building before that would happen.

Carbon monoxide is very toxic and has no smell and is the most likely source of toxic gas in a building. In the past, gas made from coal contained CO and in some circumstances, people did die from it. Natural Gas, that is essentially mined, does not have CO.

The usual source of CO now is the burning of a hydrocarbon in a situation where there is not enough oxygen. The commonly known circumstances this occurs include running a vehicle in a closed garage or using a charcoal grill indoors.

A gas water heater or a stove that is left on (with gas burning) in a unit with very little ventilation will ultimately deplete the oxygen in that unit and CO will start to form as they burn. I suspect this is going to be found to be what happened.


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It is my understanding that in the US at least, propane does not contain CO ( carbon monoxide ) and it is flammable and potentially explosive but it is not toxic. While it is possible that leaking propane could displace enough oxygen in the air, the chemical that makes the smell would cause someone to wake and leave the building before that would happen.

Carbon monoxide is very toxic and has no smell and is the most likely source of toxic gas in a building. In the past, gas made from coal contained CO and in some circumstances, people did die from it. Natural Gas, that is essentially mined, does not have CO.

The usual source of CO now is the burning of a hydrocarbon in a situation where there is not enough oxygen. The commonly known circumstances this occurs include running a vehicle in a closed garage or using a charcoal grill indoors.

A gas water heater or a stove that is left on (with gas burning) in a unit with very little ventilation will ultimately deplete the oxygen in that unit and CO will start to form as they burn. I suspect this is going to be found to be what happened.


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Funeral arrangements for the Iowa family of four who died after inhaling toxic gases in Mexico have been scheduled for later this week

A memorial service will begin at 2 p.m. Saturday at Southwestern Community College's gymnasium in Creston for the Sharps, family member Jana Weland told the Register.

[...]

An open visitation will be held from 2 to 7 p.m. Friday at the Powers Funeral Home at 601 New York Ave. in Creston. The family's burial will be closed to the public, the funeral home said.

[...]

Mourners in the southwestern Iowa town of about 8,000 people gathered for two vigils over the weekend. At one of those tearful events, Amy's mother, Beth Fry, called Creston's support "overwhelming," estimating her family has received calls, cards, food or sympathetic messages from about half of the households in the town.

“It's more than I would have ever dreamt,” she said.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...swcc-creston-gas-tulum-iowans-died/464498002/
 
Ed Major last saw his daughter and grandchildren a few weeks ago, and he's still trying to cope with knowing he'll never see them again.

"They were a wonderful family. They enjoyed life," Major said.

Amy and Kevin Sharp, of Creston, Iowa, were in Mexico on vacation with their two kids last week. The family was found dead in their rented condo.

"The kids were on the floor watching TV. Kevin and Amy were in bed watching TV. The TV was still going apparently," Major said.

http://www.ketv.com/article/loved-ones-remember-iowa-family-found-dead-in-mexico/19588947
 
The water heaters are normally located outside or in a ventilated room off of the kitchen.

RSBBM

You're right, this is a key point. When I had a gas powered furnace and hot water heater in Canada, they were in a utility room with a fresh air intake and a vent for gas to escape. The utility room had a sealed door so no gas/CO could get into the home.
 

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