MI MI - Alexandra Brueger, 31, Fatally Shot While Jogging, Rose Twp, 30 July 2016 #2

[bears10]

Those have already been brought up as well as the Rebecca Bletsch jogger case.
With AB, LE believe the killer was known to her and those known to her are suspects.

I am hoping CM2121 may have some copies of the last SM messages/texts received/sent by AB as we have not been able to see them for ourselves AFAIK.

He’s been very forthcoming with screenshots, so I don’t see why he wouldn’t share screenshots of his last convos with ally. Or even screen shots of convos where ally tells him all of her apparent feelings about Franz.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I'm sorry, you declare that what is over? This post is confusing, but comes off as though you are setting the parameters for the discussion from here on out and determining which topics will be allowed for discussion? It's one thing to say you think a certain topic has been beaten to death, or isn't helpful, or something like that, but actually stating "it's over, period!" That's not actually your place...as I mentioned upthread, it's actually against the WS terms of service to tell others what and how to post...unless you're a moderator....but your profile does not indicate as such, so...

Could you clarify what you're saying in this post, please? I would hate to misunderstand...
Thank you in advance

I'm feeling attacked and devalued myself, if fellow members tell me, how to post. My link and comparison with the case, in which a nice decent elderly man snapped (because of depression, frustration and perhaps wrong medication) and murdered his loved-ones, you here on WS don't like - okay. Then scroll and roll, please. To that I'm very used. My post (case link) didn't put up a little bit of interest - okay then. Seemingly I have to post better things and/or less thoughts; I'm willing to learn every day. But to tell me, my post would be an "illogical leap" and so on (I ironically quoted the criticism with my STOP-post) - that is unnecessary. And I also don't know, why I should explain my (weak?) comparison once more and again??
Just now I saw a post of sillybilly (re parents of AB) and deleted half of my post. I'm not interested in disregarding TOS.
I think, we should turn to other topics .........

 

[Combatmedic2121]

I'm feeling attacked and devalued myself, if fellow members tell me, how to post. My link and comparison with the case, in which a nice decent elderly man snapped (because of depression, frustration and perhaps wrong medication) and murdered his loved-ones, you here on WS don't like - okay. Then scroll and roll, please. To that I'm very used. My post (case link) didn't put up a little bit of interest - okay then. Seemingly I have to post better things and/or less thoughts; I'm willing to learn every day. But to tell me, my post would be an "illogical leap" and so on (I ironically quoted the criticism with my STOP-post) - that is unnecessary. And I also don't know, why I should explain my (weak?) comparison once more and again??
Just now I saw a post of sillybilly (re parents of AB) and deleted half of my post. I'm not interested in disregarding TOS.
I think, we should turn to other topics .........

It always comes back to denial, denial, denial....

Many members of this forum have been, and will continue to be, in a state of absolute denial in to regards to Franz involvement in Ally’s murder.
It doesn’t matter what you say or present to them. If it relates to Franz, they will find a way to complete dismiss it, shrug it off (nothing interesting to see here), or they try getting it removed.
I’ve had a lot of my posts with information regarding Franz possible involvement reported on and attempted to be removed multiple times.
So it’s not just that they do not “personally” accept Franz could have been involved... it’s that they don’t even want to see or hear anything that even remotely suggestions the possibility.
Most people (and not only on this forum) will prefer ignorance over facing the reality that in the real world... sometimes parents kill their own children. People like their ignorance and their delusions, and dislike anything and anyone that challenges these things.

I strongly believe there’s going to come a day, and hopefully very soon, that both Franz and Nikki will be arrested and charged. But I have no illusion that members here will change their tune... I believe many of them will continue to be in a complete state of denial.

Also, I’m curious, what’s the plan for when Nikki and Franz eventually do get arrested. Will they still be considered “victims” then? Or will members here then be allowed to freely discuss their involvement?

 

[Whiskers16]

Also I'm curious, what’s the plan for when Nikki and Franz eventually do get arrested. Will they still be considered “victims” then? Or will members here then be allowed to freely discuss their involvement?

RSBM. Once a POI or suspect is named as such publicly by LE/MSM, we can openly sleuth and discuss on the forum. Until that happens, family/friends are to be treated as victims and not "sleuthed" meaning don't go digging up and presenting information about them which hasn't been publicly stated in association with the case. And anyone else rumored or suspected to be involved is not to be named/discussed/sleuthed. In my experience, this thread is not the norm - you can speak freely as a VI with your suspicions of a family member, but none of the other members are really to discuss that person as a suspect. This can make it difficult for us to even respond to your posts or others' posts without violating TOS and earning some points on the naughty list. So, say someone finds your points totally reasonable, it may be difficult for them to respond in a way which follows the rules.

 

[Combatmedic2121]

RSBM. Once a POI or suspect is named as such publicly by LE/MSM, we can openly sleuth and discuss on the forum. Until that happens, family/friends are to be treated as victims and not "sleuthed" meaning don't go digging up and presenting information about them which hasn't been publicly stated in association with the case. And anyone else rumored or suspected to be involved is not to be named/discussed/sleuthed. In my experience, this thread is not the norm - you can speak freely as a VI with your suspicions of a family member, but none of the other members are really to discuss that person as a suspect. This can make it difficult for us to even respond to your posts or others' posts without violating TOS and earning some points on the naughty list. So, say someone finds your points totally reasonable, it may be difficult for them to respond in a way which follows the rules.

Then the TOS is wrong and should be changed. Most people who are murdered are murdered by someone they know (ie. friends/family)... are they not?
If you remove these people from the discussion you severely hinder any ability to actually help make progress in any case.

 

[Shiressleuth]

"You may ask the VI respectful questions about any assertions they may make, but if those assertions or statements are accusations against the parents, you may not engage in making accusations or negative insinuations yourself."

The post that some posters are still asking questions about was addressed to CM2121 and is covered under the extract from SB's post above. I'm not answering any further questions as I have addressed it enough already, in a polite manner IMO.

 

[Whiskers16]

Then the TOS is wrong and should be changed. Most people who are murdered are murdered by someone they know (ie. friends/family)... are they not?
If you remove these people from the discussion you severely hinder any ability to actually help make progress in any case.

I get your point, but I believe the TOS are in place to protect innocent people from having their names drug through the mud. Hopefully you can at least partially appreciate that as someone who has been considered as a suspect in this crime. Without the TOS people could say whatever they want about you, without any proof to back it up, and when someone googles your name it would pop up. With the TOS we can present hypotheticals, opinions, etc and often leave names out of it.

 

[Shiressleuth]

It always comes back to denial, denial, denial....

Many members of this forum have been, and will continue to be, in a state of absolute denial in to regards to Franz involvement in Ally’s murder.
It doesn’t matter what you say or present to them. If it relates to Franz, they will find a way to complete dismiss it, shrug it off (nothing interesting to see here), or they try getting it removed.
I’ve had a lot of my posts with information regarding Franz possible involvement reported on and attempted to be removed multiple times.
So it’s not just that they do not “personally” accept Franz could have been involved... it’s that they don’t even want to see or hear anything that even remotely suggestions the possibility.
Most people (and not only on this forum) will prefer ignorance over facing the reality that in the real world... sometimes parents kill their own children. People like their ignorance and their delusions, and dislike anything and anyone that challenges these things.

I strongly believe there’s going to come a day, and hopefully very soon, that both Franz and Nikki will be arrested and charged. But I have no illusion that members here will change their tune... I believe many of them will continue to be in a complete state of denial.

Also, I’m curious, what’s the plan for when Nikki and Franz eventually do get arrested. Will they still be considered “victims” then? Or will members here then be allowed to freely discuss their involvement?

It's complicated as Whiskers has said. Do you have any of A's last messages/texts that you could share on here? I realise this is difficult to share but we have no access to her SM as presumably it was private.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

This meeting has not happened yet unfortunately.
I called this new investigator (who my new point of contact) and left her a voicemail early last week.
I basically asked her to get back with me with a date and time for us to sit down and really go over everything I know from the very beginning regarding Ally’s parents and that this was going to take some time.
[RSBM for space]
After I sent her those screenshots I simply texted her saying that All I really needed to know is that LE was aware of what I’m aware.... basically, are we even remotely on the same page here?
If we are...great! No further questions!
If we are not... we really need to sit down and go over all of this from the beginning.

The investigator replied that she was currently out of town and would be back this week.
She thanked me for the screenshots I sent her and said she was going to print them and go over them, and she would be contacting me soon so we could sit down and go over everything.
So that’s where we’re at right now....
[RSBM for focus]

@Combatmedic2121
Any updates on your and your family’s meeting with the FBI? Have you heard back from the new investigator?

 

[ThinkThinkThink]

CM, a few questions I have, if you can pls answer:

1) What is your recollection about Ally's use of her phone when running? Did you know her to always take it with her, rain or shine? Or no? Other than as a means of contacting others, did she use it as a tool/for information (in any way) while running?
2) Did she mention to you any problems she had encountered on her parent's home running route recently (i.e., motorists, neighbors, passerbys, etc.)? Actually, what -- if anything -- did she ever mention about that running route?
3) How about in the past? Any comments she made about any hassles or stressors with anyone while she was running? If so, what? And how did she handle them?
4) Can you give us one text or email sample between you and Ally, prior to her horrific murder? So we can see the rapport?

 

[Combatmedic2121]

My cat Zoey had always been a running joke between us ever since we met.
These were our last words to eachother on that morning she before she was killed. This honestly break my heart everytime I see it, but there you go....

 

[bears10]

@Combatmedic2121 any updates on the meeting with the FBI? Your previous posts indicated you would be meeting with them this week.

 

[Shiressleuth]

My cat Zoey had always been a running joke between us ever since we met.
These were our last words to eachother on that morning she before she was killed. This honestly break my heart everytime I see it, but there you go....

TY for sharing this. I really hope this can be solved and LE have leads.

 

[Spellbound]

Then the TOS is wrong and should be changed. Most people who are murdered are murdered by someone they know (ie. friends/family)... are they not?
If you remove these people from the discussion you severely hinder any ability to actually help make progress in any case.

BBM

Family and friends are always scrutinized carefully when there is a murder by unknown person(s). LE starts with the innermost circle and works out. Until they have solid evidence that will stand up in court, they are unlikely to make an arrest. I seriously doubt family has been excluded from any scrutiny.

"these people" (supposing you mean Ally's family members) have likely gone through a thorough check, whether you want to believe it or not. Whether they have had polygraphs by now or if they have been removed as suspects is something we do not yet know. Maybe they have, maybe they have not. I do wish we would get an update from LE as to how the case is progressing.

You are also a "suspect" from what we have learned. Should we not be discussing how "you as a suspect" normally is treated here on WS? Believe me, you have been given much latitude compared to the usual scrutiny of WS discussions. I do believe we have all been pussyfooting around our own ideas and concerns out of respect for you.

My own thought is that we just do not have enough info to make a determination of guilt.

 

[bluesneakers]

Then the TOS is wrong and should be changed. Most people who are murdered are murdered by someone they know (ie. friends/family)... are they not?

From the FBI:

• In 2011, in incidents of murder for which the relationships of murder victims and offenders were known, 54.3 percent were killed by someone they knew (acquaintance, neighbor, friend, boyfriend, etc.); 24.8 percent of victims were slain by family members. The relationship of murder victims and offenders was unknown in 44.1 percent of murder and non-negligent manslaughter incidents in 2011. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 10.)
• Of the female murder victims for whom the relationships to their offenders were known, 36.5 percent were murdered by their husbands or boyfriends. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Tables 2 and 10.)

Expanded Homicide Data

 

[Shiressleuth]

Yes, most people are murdered by people they know. (Last discussed on page 16 of this thread)
Am having trouble looking at all the stats as they don't seem to agree that closely, but maybe one set is state and one is national. i recall 9 out of 10 by someone they knew with 6 of those being an intimate partner.

Eta this is the link to the 2015 study I posted on page 16, so is more recent than the 2011 stats posted.

More Than 1,600 Women Murdered by Men in One Year, New Study Finds

 

[bluesneakers]

Yes, most people are murdered by people they know. (Last discussed on page 16 of this thread)
Am having trouble looking at all the stats as they don't seem to agree that closely, but maybe one set is state and one is national. i recall 9 out of 10 by someone they knew with 6 of those being an intimate partner.

Eta this is the link to the 2015 study I posted on page 16, so is more recent than the 2011 stats posted.

More Than 1,600 Women Murdered by Men in One Year, New Study Finds

Interesting! Thanks for the link. However this is only women who are murdered, not "most people who are murdered are murdered by someone they know" which was the specific comment I replied to.

The study covers homicides involving one female murder victim and one male offender, and uses data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Supplementary Homicide Report.

“Women killed by men are most often killed by someone they know and more than half were killed by an intimate partner,” says Legislative Director Kristen Rand. “Much more must be done to identify and implement strategies to prevent these tragedies. More resources are needed at the federal, state, and local levels to help keep women safe.”

 

[Spellbound]

Female victims of domestic gun-related homicides far outnumber males in Michigan
An analysis of FBI data from 2006-14 revealed an average of 760 Americans per year were killed with guns by their spouses, ex-spouses or dating partners, according to an Associated Press analysis.

• 43 girlfriends were shot to death by their boyfriends, the second most of any category

- - - -
Deadly love: Women are most likely to be killed by an intimate partner, CDC reports
2017
That’s the conclusion of a new report from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which found that when women die violently, it’s most often at the hands of their romantic partners.

Homicide was among the leading causes of death for women 44 and younger in 2003-14, according to the CDC report, which analyzed homicide data from the National Violent Death Reporting System among 10,018 women older than 18 in 18 states, including Michigan.


More than half — 55% — of homicides for which circumstances were known were tied to intimate partner violence.
That number, many of us would argue, is probably low," said Jill Popovich, legal program coordinator for First Step, a Wayne County domestic violence shelter.
- - - -

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/c_Murder_598814_7.pdf

[2016] Location of Murders
Fifty‐one percent of these incidents occurred in a Residence/Home. Thirty‐two percent were reported to occur on a Highway/Road/Alley. Four percent of the murders occurred in a Parking Lot/Garage.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Interesting! Thanks for the link. However this is only women who are murdered, not "most people who are murdered are murdered by someone they know" which was the specific comment I replied to.

The study covers homicides involving one female murder victim and one male offender, and uses data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Supplementary Homicide Report.

“Women killed by men are most often killed by someone they know and more than half were killed by an intimate partner,” says Legislative Director Kristen Rand. “Much more must be done to identify and implement strategies to prevent these tragedies. More resources are needed at the federal, state, and local levels to help keep women safe.”

So are you saying the study you quoted was male and females murdered?

 

[flourish]

So are you saying the study you quoted was male and females murdered?

Well, clicking on the link from blue, one of the first lines reads:

• Of the 12,664 murder victims in 2011 for which supplemental data were received, most (77.6 percent) were male. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 1.)