Missouri, St. Louis - Teenage girl critically injured after brutal fight with another female teen near Hazelwood East High School, 8 March 2024

[Cryptic]

Since MD didn't have a record or history of violence before this incident, I don't think locking her up can be considered the best solution. I think she needs to work on controlling her anger, and I'd prefer to see her sentenced to her sentenced to a few years of working with victims of abuse and violence.

Unless the District Attorney is willing to....

- Offer proportional amounts of community service to each and every violent perpertrator who lacks prior documented incidents (And there could be a fair number of those).

- And, still extend proportional community service offers to perpetrators who may not have all of MD's attractive pr spins- well, so long as they have no prior documented incidents....

A meaningful amount of lock up time could be warranted to preserve the integrity of the justice system and to deter others.

 

[GRT]

Unless the District Attorney is willing to....

- Offer proportional amounts of community service to each and every violent perpertrator who lacks prior documented incidents (And there could be a fair number of those).

- And, still extend proportional community service offers to perpetrators who may not have all of MD's attractive pr spins- well, so long as they have no prior documented incidents....

A meaningful amount of lock up time could be warranted to preserve the integrity of the justice system and to deter others.

That's par for the course, at least in the juvenile system, which focuses more on rehabilitation than imprisonment. They typically try to keep offenders out of prison and set them on a better path in life.

It doesn't always work out, obviously, but the idea behind it is that children make poor decisions, and this gives them a chance at turning their lives around.

 

[Cryptic]

That's par for the course, at least in the juvenile system, which focuses more on rehabilitation than imprisonment. They typically try to keep offenders out of prison and set them on a better path in life.

All those goals are needed. At the same time, juvenile courts can still order that defendants be confined.

Unless the DA is willing to extend similar proportional offers to other violent juveniles with no prior documented offenses, I would lock her up for a period of time.

 

[Dotta]

IMO the perp's place should be in Young Offenders Institution.

In my country it is a special rehabilitation facility for minors aged 13 to 24 who have been sentenced to correctional measures.

It provides learning and vocational education,
cultural and educational activities,
sports and recreational activities.

And therapies to help resocialization.

JMO

 

[GRT]

All those goals are needed. At the same time, juvenile courts can still order that defendants be confined.

Unless the DA is willing to extend similar proportional offers to other violent juveniles with no prior documented offenses, I would lock her up for a period of time.

I think it's standard policy to try and use diversion tactics with most juvenile offenders. The "violence" aspect is, of course, concerning, but in this case, it wasn't violence that happened in a vacuum. It wasn't unprovoked.

I don't know if that's what the Juvenile Officer was looking at -- but it sounds like it might have been. At least in part.

If this case remains in the juvenile system, we may never know much more about it since releasing information about juveniles isn't really a thing. If MD is tried as an adult, I'm guessing we'll hear more.

 

[Tamagal]

They want MD tried as an adult. They have openly stated that multiple time

 

[GRT]

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From everything I've read about KG and MD, both young ladies were products of their environment. KG's home life was erratic, and she was caught in a downward spiral of fighting to establish what? Dominance? Power? Respect of her peers?

Until the fateful day, MD fared better--maybe she had a better support system, and she excelled in school, but that also made her the target of bullies. Bullies don't like nerds. MOO

The Juvenile Officer pointed out those factors when recommending that MD's case remain in the juvenile system. MD's teachers came and spoke on her behalf.

When I first saw the video--I was shocked and disgusted at the level of violence. MD must be disciplined for her behavior--I don't think anyone disagrees. But, I believe we need to carefully weigh the events that led up to that fight when determining MD's punishment. She's large and strong, but inside, she's still a 15-year-old girl.

 

[Yuletide]

GRT, I may have missed the testimony that there was proof that MD was a target of bullies. Did the school confirm that?

 

[GRT]

GRT, I may have missed the testimony that there was proof that MD was a target of bullies. Did the school confirm that?

Not that I know of.

I think MD's family just claimed this, but a few teachers reportedly testified at the hearing in MD's defense.

It isn't odd, however, for the "smart kids" who excel in school to be bullied by those who don't. I guess that's what I'm picturing, having read what MD's family claims, but it certainly could be that MD was not bullied.

I should say, "If she was bullied..."

 

[Yuletide]

Not that I know of.

I think MD's family just claimed this, but a few teachers reportedly testified at the hearing in MD's defense.

It isn't odd, however, for the "smart kids" who excel in school to be bullied by those who don't. I guess that's what I'm picturing, having read what MD's family claims, but it certainly could be that MD was not bullied.

I should say, "If she was bullied..."

I believe MD’s family members have released multiple claims. “MD was just waiting for her bus to come home when the fight happened. MD was just defending herself”. These two statements have been proven untrue, yet the family is still clinging to the self defense mantra even after knowing that their daughter agreed to the fight and showed up to the fight voluntarily. Therefore, I take everything they say with skepticism, including the claim that MD was bullied. Their statements have been full of buzzwords. Too many buzzwords imo. (Honor student, violinist, nerd, bullied, self defense). Their choice of wording gives me the impression they are trying to paint a positive picture. KG’s family’s words give me the impression that they are exposing raw truth. Just my opinion, but given the choice I would tend to believe KG’s family over the other family

 

[MollyDDD]

I think both families have behaved fairly well—certainly better than some families we've seen associated with events like this in the past. I liked that KG's family admitted she had some issues based on her early upbringing, and I liked that MD's family said they were praying for KG.

It's just too bad these families didn't figure out what was going on and intervene before the fight could take place.

One was being forthcoming, the other, just covering their (|).

 

[MollyDDD]

Unless the District Attorney is willing to....

- Offer proportional amounts of community service to each and every violent perpertrator who lacks prior documented incidents (And there could be a fair number of those).

- And, still extend proportional community service offers to perpetrators who may not have all of MD's attractive pr spins- well, so long as they have no prior documented incidents....

A meaningful amount of lock up time could be warranted to preserve the integrity of the justice system and to deter others.

My prediction is, she’ll get a slap on the wrist. That seems to be the way things work these days anyway. And the beat goes on…

 

[Cryptic]

Too many buzzwords imo. (Honor student, violinist, nerd, bullied, self defense). Their choice of wording gives me the impression they are trying to paint a positive picture.

Very well said. Though it is not surprising and also understandable that parents would want to present their daughter in the best light possible, impartial observers need to cut through the expected parental spin.

Operating along the lines of:

- I find M the more attractive combatant.
- The parents state "A", "B" and "C".
- So, "A", "B" and "C" must be factual. Does not help other students and that school. It might not help "M" in the long run either.

Likewise, I think there is the concept of "One too many "maybes" breaking the camel's back": Maybe the unattractive "Triumph!" social media message(s) (rapidly deleted) was not made really and truly made by "M", maybe "M" had an "uncontrollable" response, maybe.... maybe....

 

[GRT]

I believe MD’s family members have released multiple claims. “MD was just waiting for her bus to come home when the fight happened. MD was just defending herself”. These two statements have been proven untrue, yet the family is still clinging to the self defense mantra even after knowing that their daughter agreed to the fight and showed up to the fight voluntarily. Therefore, I take everything they say with skepticism, including the claim that MD was bullied. Their statements have been full of buzzwords. Too many buzzwords imo. (Honor student, violinist, nerd, bullied, self defense). Their choice of wording gives me the impression they are trying to paint a positive picture. KG’s family’s words give me the impression that they are exposing raw truth. Just my opinion, but given the choice I would tend to believe KG’s family over the other family

Good points. It's like crying wolf--when someone is caught telling tall tales, everything they say is suspect.

However, some things appear to be accurate, as mentioned by the juvenile officer and the teachers who testified.

It's just my opinion, but being studious, jumping grades, and being in AP classes don't really coincide with being a brawler or gangbanger type.

But, there's so much we don't know, and if this stays in the juvenile system, we still won't know much.

For the most part, though, I think both families have been pretty good.

 

[GRT]

Very well said. Though it is not surprising and also understandable that parents would want to present their daughter in the best light possible, impartial observers need to cut through the expected parental spin.

Operating along the lines of:

- I find M the more attractive combatant.
- The parents state "A", "B" and "C".
- So, "A", "B" and "C" must be factual. Does not help other students and that school. It might not help "M" in the long run either.

Likewise, I think there is the concept of "One too many "maybes" breaking the camel's back": Maybe the unattractive "Triumph!" social media message(s) (rapidly deleted) was not made really and truly made by "M", maybe "M" had an "uncontrollable" response, maybe.... maybe....

Also good points. It's normal to have parental spin, but it muddies the waters.

Part of your last sentence deserves closer examination: "...maybe "M" had an "uncontrollable" response..."

I think she did -- respond uncontrollably, that is -- and that's what has to be corrected going forward. She must learn to control herself in all situations.

 

[Cryptic]

I think she did -- respond uncontrollably, that is -- and that's what has to be corrected going forward. She must learn to control herself in all situations.

Color me cynical cinnamon, but I just dont buy "uncontrollable response" defenses.

It does not matter when the claimant is a student, or an adult claiming the: "Gay Panic Defense". I also dont buy "flashback" defenses either.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Color me cynical cinnamon, but I just dont buy "uncontrollable response" defenses.

It does not matter when the claimant is a student, or an adult claiming the: "Gay Panic Defense". I also dont buy "flashback" defenses either.

That's your perogative.

 

[Cryptic]

That's your perogative.

Thanks.

 

[Tamagal]

DBM

 

[GRT]

Color me cynical cinnamon, but I just dont buy "uncontrollable response" defenses.

It does not matter when the claimant is a student, or an adult claiming the: "Gay Panic Defense". I also dont buy "flashback" defenses either.

I'm certainly not defending her, nor suggesting it should be used as a defense.

I just think it's a fact -- she lost control. Is that something she might learn to control? I don't know but I think it's vital for her to work to control herself.