Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #7

[MooseMeMuch]

After getting the women to the van, the abductor probably had the girls tie up Sherrill immediately, or he might have just killed her. Since Stacy had tried to escape, he probably tied her up or killed her, too, and had Suzie drive him wherever he wanted to go.

If he/she murdered Sherrill and Stacy from the git-go (not saying he/she didn't murder them asap) he/she just wanted Stacy?
Of course it could have been a challenge (the abduction) and a 'thrill kill'. I hate to think of what happened but it is sadly, reality.
Revenge as the motive? And with that, victims don't always know their victims, so IMO your theory, could be the one.
I'm liking all these 'new' scenarios! Fresh ideas....thank goodness.

 

[asyousay]

Good point!
He wasn't/isn't coordinated enough. Cox needs to find another occupation. Lol
I also do not believe he murdered that girl in Florida His sentence was tossed out by the FL court which was/is rare in and of itself.
IMO he shoulda stuck w/ the Rangering. What an idiot.
And I also, IMO, have difficulty believing Garrison or Carnahan did this. There again, it would have been a one-person job and that's not how those bums rolled.
Thankful they're ALL in prison.

Yes thank god they all got caught and can’t hurt people again.

Whoever did this I think was professional and wasn’t a idiot/idiots.I don’t think it was just luck that they didn’t get caught as the house certainly didn’t show signs of a struggle. I know there are rumours Stacey put a struggle by the front door but nothing seemed out of the ordinary if we take Janelle’s version of events. Stacey wasn’t related to Suzie or Sherrill so a threat on their lives wouldn’t hold leverage like it would with the other two.

 

[Ozoner]

In reading through the old articles in the Springfield News Leader, Lake Springfield has been searched numerous times over the years. The problem for this crime is that Springfield is also close to Branson & Table Rock Lake, a very large lake with many miles of shoreline in rugged, remote areas.

Google Maps

North of Springfield is Stockton Lake - same problem

Google Maps

Is Table Rock Lake the one that runs through Dogwood Canyon Recreation Area? I can't see a single perp traveling that far, or to Lake Stockton, unless his home base was also in the same area. Otherwise, how would he have gotten back to Springfield?

Taking these women was more like stealing--more like the act of a thief--than it was like the average sex crime. That's one reason why the head grave robber is my prime suspect. Even if the none of the grave robbers was involved, I would be looking for a perp with a history of property crimes, not sex crimes (although something stealthy like window peeping wouldn't surprise me). He might have been caught shoplifting or stealing bikes as a youth, for instance.

 

[MooseMeMuch]

If anyone's interested.....it would be an awesome show for Cold Justice! Flood their inbox...I sent my 'pleas' aka request...the other day.

Cold Justice Tip Line

"Do you have a case that you want the people at Cold Justice to consider? Use the Cold Justice Tip Line below to submit information to the production company for review."

Yes! Flood the Tip line!
What harm could it do?

 

[asyousay]

If anyone's interested.....it would be an awesome show for Cold Justice! Flood their inbox...I sent my 'pleas' aka request...the other day.

Cold Justice Tip Line

Apparently according to the Facebook group set up this won’t happen as LE will not release any files relating to this case for the show which I assume means the Show wouldn’t take the case?

 

[Satchie]

I don't know of any cases where three adults were abducted by a single perp, but the McStay family--two adults, including an adult male, and two small children--were abducted, driven to the desert, murdered, and buried by one perp (whom they knew).

It is believed that the three teenage girls (including a married 17- or 18-year-old) who vanished from Ft. Worth in 1974 were taken by a single perp.

There's also Joseph Duncan, who entered a home and killed an adult male, a teenage male, and an adult female before abducting two young children. He had performed surveillance on the family for about 24 hours (including observing them with night vision goggles) after seeing the girl playing in the yard in a bathing suit.

Abducting three women might not be that difficult if the trio includes a mother/daughter combo. You would control the mother by threatening the daughter. The abductor probably had a hand gun, and it was probably at Suzie's head. The abductor wouldn't have had as much leverage with Stacy, which is why Stacy was the one who tried to get away.

After getting the women to the van, the abductor probably had the girls tie up Sherrill immediately, or he might have just killed her. Since Stacy had tried to escape, he probably tied her up or killed her, too, and had Suzie drive him wherever he wanted to go.

Those are helpful examples, thanks.

The McStay's are a very good example to compare with this kidnapping.

BTW, we don't know everything yet about that case, but clearly info about the condition of the home was concealed by police until after the arrest. Also, the video footage of a family crossing the border was massively misleading. I believe police will keep their suspicions to themselves and allow the public to scamper off on wild goose chases.

Anyhow, as an example of an apparently similar crime, the accused was targetting the McStay's very personally (allegedly he was stealing from the business, but it seems to me he must really have hated Joseph), he wanted to create the disappearance scenario to avoid detection, because if they'd been found murdered he'd be a prime suspect. He had a plan, and chose his moment deliberately when they were all home. One issue is that, since he arrived during daylight, he may have been welcomed in. He possibly grabbed a boy and could force compliance. Less easy to carry out if he'd arrived 3 am, and with older girls, but as you say, possible.

This now reminds me of another case I'm following, the McFalls in Arizona. The older couple disappeared from their home, leaving everything behind. The suspicion is falling on someone they'd had bad relations with, and who was charged with a crime against them. Having a criminal record would be a big problem for this person. I think that by disappearing them, this person believes nothing can ever be proven, and he is safe.

ETA: so in both cases, the McStays and McFalls, it suggests the motive of someone carrying out this type of crime is a combination of hatred, removing an obstacle in the perp's way, and a strong determination to never get caught.

 

[cherrymeg]

Apparently according to the Facebook group set up this won’t happen as LE will not release any files relating to this case for the show which I assume means the Show wouldn’t take the case?

If there is an interest in this case let's push Cold Justice to contact them. Unless LE has evidence and is planning to arrest someone, how could fresh eyes hurt? Cold Justice has had success with getting cases solved and getting suspects into the courtroom. This show actually investigates these cases. Maybe we should contact the police department and beg them to contact Cold Justice.
Three Missing Women | Springfield, MO - Official Website

 

[Ozoner]

Those are helpful examples, thanks.

The McStay's are a very good example to compare with this kidnapping.

BTW, we don't know everything yet about that case, but clearly info about the condition of the home was concealed by police until after the arrest. Also, the video footage of a family crossing the border was massively misleading. I believe police will keep their suspicions to themselves and allow the public to scamper off on wild goose chases.

Anyhow, as an example of an apparently similar crime, the accused was targetting the McStay's very personally (it seems to me he must really have hated Joseph), he wanted to create the disappearance scenario to avoid detection, because if they'd been found murdered he'd be a prime suspect. He had a plan, and chose his moment deliberately when they were all home. One issue is that, since he arrived during daylight, he may have been welcomed in. He possibly grabbed a boy and could force compliance. Less easy to carry out if he'd arrived 3 am, and with older girls, but as you say, possible.

This now reminds me of another case I'm following, the McFalls in Arizona. The older couple disappeared from their home, leaving everything behind. The suspicion is falling on someone they'd had bad relations with, and who was charged with a crime against them. Having a criminal record would be a big problem for this person. I think that by disappearing them, this person believes nothing can ever be proven, and he is safe.

ETA: so in both cases, the McStays and McFalls, it suggests the motive of someone carrying out this type of crime is a combination of hatred, removing an obstacle in the perp's way, and a strong determination to never get caught.

Another case that occurred to me was the murder of Joan Rogers and her two teenage daughters by Oba Chandler in Florida in 1989. He lured the women onto a boat after they got lost and asked him for directions.

'Evil' man who raped and killed mother and two daughters executed in Florida - after 17 years on death row without any visitors and a three-sandwich last meal | Daily Mail Online

It's possible that the Springfield women could have been lured away, but I can't see any stranger doing that unless he had posed as a cop. He could have pulled over the girls and told them that they were suspected of drunk driving. He could have then given them permission to drive their cars home in order to avoid towing fees. When he got to the house, he could have told them that he had to arrest them and take them to the station; they would have allowed him to handcuff them. Sherrill would have left the house in order to go to the station to bail the girls out. The perp would have overpowered her as soon as she walked out the door, but by then it would have been too late. (I don't consider that scenario likely—I'm just trying to explore all options.)

 

[Satchie]

Of course it could have been a challenge (the abduction) and a 'thrill kill'.

RSBM

I am not personally seeing this as a 'thrill kill'. Although anything is possible, to me it seems less likely, mainly because of the action of going into the home and removing Sherrill.

Thrill motivated killers usually target one, or at most two, vulnerable and/or sexually attractive victims, whom they can easily isolate and control. The whole process of isolating, grabbing, confining, is charged with sexual energy and power.

Since a theoretical thrill kidnapper in this case was evidently interested in high-school aged girls, I just don't see how taking along 47 year old 'Mom' would be consistent with maintaining that sense of thrill. I think it would be a huge drag and very likely to dampen the sense of thrill, IMO.

 

[Satchie]

Another case that occurred to me was the murder of Joan Rogers and her two teenage daughters by Oba Chandler in Florida in 1989. He lured the women onto a boat after they got lost and asked him for directions.

'Evil' man who raped and killed mother and two daughters executed in Florida - after 17 years on death row without any visitors and a three-sandwich last meal | Daily Mail Online

It's possible that the Springfield women could have been lured away, but I can't see any stranger doing that unless he had posed as a cop. He could have pulled over the girls and told them that they were suspected of drunk driving. He could have then given them permission to drive their cars home in order to avoid towing fees. When he got to the house, he could have told them that he had to arrest them and take them to the station; they would have allowed him to handcuff them. Sherrill would have left the house in order to go to the station to bail the girls out. The perp would have overpowered her as soon as she walked out the door, but by then it would have been too late. (I don't consider that scenario likely—I'm just trying to explore all options.)

I think what I'm looking for is a kind of criminal profile for this crime, what do the circumstances reveal about the state of mind of the criminal. The actions need to be psychologically consistent with the criminal's motives and mindset.

I think it's consistent with the mindset of an, unfortunately familiar, type of killer to lure a woman, or girls, or boys, into a car, or home, and then kill them and dump the bodies, which are often found.

There's another pattern of crime that involves invading a home and commiting violence against the inhabitants as well as theft, and making no attempt to conceal the crime.

The odd thing is, the criminal who commits one type of crime seems very unlikely to commit a different type. So, for example, Scott Peterson wasn't interested in luring women onto his boat to kill them and dispose of them the way he did Laci.

 

[MooseMeMuch]

Apparently according to the Facebook group set up this won’t happen as LE will not release any files relating to this case for the show which I assume means the Show wouldn’t take the case?

IMO.......#1. still wouldn't hurt to submit to Cold Justice #2. Yes, I was told after the Crime Watch Daily epic fail...fams not too inclined but...IMO....Cold Justice is NOT Crime Dramatic Daily ( I don't watch it anymore, they do not care about facts). #3. I'm sure the moderators of said FB site...IMO....SPD LE is not....fond of two of the moderators.

What have they got to lose? Only their pride. This case is a black-eye for SPD...I'd like to see them swallow that huge lump of pride and redeem themselves with Cold Justice. At least, IMO, the family would know that every avenue was taken plus, heck, who knows, it might actually get solved and won't be a dramatization fascination.

 

[beebosox]

I am not personally seeing this as a 'thrill kill'.

Me either. I run through the theories like they were rosary beads. Killed because of what happened at the after- party? Too clean for that suddenness. This seems planned. Someone had their marching orders and went in and did the deed and did it right. At least that seems my theory for tonight.

 

[MooseMeMuch]

If there is an interest in this case let's push Cold Justice to contact them. Unless LE has evidence and is planning to arrest someone, how could fresh eyes hurt? Cold Justice has had success with getting cases solved and getting suspects into the courtroom. This show actually investigates these cases. Maybe we should contact the police department and beg them to contact Cold Justice.
Three Missing Women | Springfield, MO - Official Website

YAY! CherryMeg! Another positive voice

This case CAN be solved.

 

[Ozoner]

If he/she murdered Sherrill and Stacy from the git-go (not saying he/she didn't murder them asap) he/she just wanted Stacy?
Of course it could have been a challenge (the abduction) and a 'thrill kill'. I hate to think of what happened but it is sadly, reality.
Revenge as the motive? And with that, victims don't always know their victims, so IMO your theory, could be the one.
I'm liking all these 'new' scenarios! Fresh ideas....thank goodness.

I'd say there was an 80% chance Suzie was the target; 15%, Stacy; and 5%, Sherrill. A sexual predator might victimize a middle-aged woman if she were a convenient victim, but in a case like this? Naah. The only way Stacy was the target is if this was an unplanned sex crime and the perp spotted the girls that night and followed them home--then it could have been either girl or both of them.

 

[MooseMeMuch]

RSBM
Since a theoretical thrill kidnapper in this case was evidently interested in high-school aged girls, I just don't see how taking along 47 year old 'Mom' would be consistent with maintaining that sense of thrill. I think it would be a huge drag and very likely to dampen the sense of thrill, IMO.

Lol...... yeah, ol' ma......just wouldn't cut it for thrill killer.
Sherrill does kind of put a 'kink' in a good scenario. If it was just the young women...it would make more sense. Why take Sherrill?

 

[MooseMeMuch]

I think what I'm looking for is a kind of criminal profile for this crime, what do the circumstances reveal about the state of mind of the criminal. The actions need to be psychologically consistent with the criminal's motives and mindset.

I think it's consistent with the mindset of an, unfortunately familiar, type of killer to lure a woman, or girls, or boys, into a car, or home, and then kill them and dump the bodies, which are often found."

Which goes with my initial thoughts...a fun 'kidnap' like what I experienced in H.S.
No time to grab anything, it was "come as you are" in PJ's and slippers, all in the name of initiation 'fun'. Blind-folded, tossed into a car and away we went!

 

[Ozoner]

Why take Sherrill? Maybe he got the girls to cooperate by telling them that no one would get hurt if they did as they were told. If he had killed Sherrill, he would have had a much harder time controlling the girls and keeping them calm. He also couldn't leave Sherrill at the house because she would have been able to ID him.

 

[Betty P]

Is Table Rock Lake the one that runs through Dogwood Canyon Recreation Area? I can't see a single perp traveling that far, or to Lake Stockton, unless his home base was also in the same area. Otherwise, how would he have gotten back to Springfield?

Taking these women was more like stealing--more like the act of a thief--than it was like the average sex crime. That's one reason why the head grave robber is my prime suspect. Even if the none of the grave robbers was involved, I would be looking for a perp with a history of property crimes, not sex crimes (although something stealthy like window peeping wouldn't surprise me). He might have been caught shoplifting or stealing bikes as a youth, for instance.

Table Rock Lake runs through a large area west of Branson. It's a long, narrow lake with many branches, created when rivers were dammed. It's only about a 40-45 minute drive from Springfield. The killer may have lived in one of the remote areas between Table Rock and Springfield. It's very hilly and heavily wooded, even more remote back then. Remember, the killer had a nearly 24 hr head start before anyone seriously began searching for the missing women. The kidnappings didn't even hit the newspaper until 2 days later.

LE has searched some remote farms in the remote areas around Springfield over the years, one in Webster County, another near Cassville, and another location near Bull Shoals Lake. I think they suspect that's where the women ended up - somewhere in the woods south of Springfield. The van could have been driven into a ravine, parked in someone's old barn, set afire and left in the woods, etc.

25 years after three Springfield women went missing, the tips still trickle in

 

[Ozoner]

I think what I'm looking for is a kind of criminal profile for this crime, what do the circumstances reveal about the state of mind of the criminal. The actions need to be psychologically consistent with the criminal's motives and mindset.

I think it's consistent with the mindset of an, unfortunately familiar, type of killer to lure a woman, or girls, or boys, into a car, or home, and then kill them and dump the bodies, which are often found.

There's another pattern of crime that involves invading a home and commiting violence against the inhabitants as well as theft, and making no attempt to conceal the crime.

The odd thing is, the criminal who commits one type of crime seems very unlikely to commit a different type. So, for example, Scott Peterson wasn't interested in luring women onto his boat to kill them and dispose of them the way he did Laci.

One thing to bear in mind is that we don't really know how careful or sloppy the killer was. If the house was the crime scene, then the crime scene was contaminated by many people. There's no telling how much forensic evidence of probative value might have been destroyed.

 

[Betty P]

Why take Sherrill? Maybe he got the girls to cooperate by telling them that no one would get hurt if they did as they were told. If he had killed Sherrill, he would have had a much harder time controlling the girls and keeping them calm. He also couldn't leave Sherrill at the house because she would have been able to ID him.

Right. The killer(s) were "in for a penny, in for a pound". Once they started, they had to deal with all 3 women together. Some of the very early reports of a car or van in the area of Sherrill's house that night reported 2 men inside. It's possible.

 

[Talullah]

Incomplete