MN MN - Isanti Co., WhtMale Skeletal 499UMMN, 20-28, distinctive smile, Aug'03

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by webrocket, Jun 14, 2011.

  1. webrocket

    webrocket New Member

    Messages:
    3,537
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    the skeletal remains of a white male age 20-28 were found on Aug 17, 2003 in Isanti, MN. The UID was estimated to be 5'10". only skeletal finding was a prior healed fractured rib.

    UID was estimated to have been dead for 2 years.

    https://identifyus.org/cases/8832
     
  2. Loading...


  3. webrocket

    webrocket New Member

    Messages:
    3,537
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    on Nov. 10, 2002, a 20 y.o. college student named Joshua Guimond was last seen in St. Joseph, MN. per his namus profile, Joshua was 5'10". no reference to a rib fracture:

    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/312/2/

    I looked at mapquest and the distance between the two locations is 60 miles.

    not a whole lot to go on especially since the UID was just skeletal, but given the height, age and general proximity, you'd think they would have checked this possibility out already.
     
  4. buffetoflies

    buffetoflies Active Member

    Messages:
    1,128
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    huh. I remember reading about this when these remains were found. The county paper had the same reconstruction as the DN has, so i figured the remains were of a native american.

    The dates regarding how old the remains are seem to have changed a bit. In this link: http://s10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/ar/t17213.htm from early 2007 says the estimated date of death is between 3-28 years prior to discovery, and the current page for DN says between 24 and 33 years. The first link also has the age range listed as 25-35 years old instead of 20-28.

    Also, the big thing one these remains is that the teeth had an odd pattern. If the reconstruction of the mouth is accurate then the deceased had a large gap between what I think should be the left front and 1st left canine (#6 & #7 if I am looking at the dental chart right). There is one picture of JG smiling where I can see his top teeth, and too me they look pretty well aligned with one another.
     
  5. webrocket

    webrocket New Member

    Messages:
    3,537
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    thanks buffetoflies. did not realize there was a reconstruction at Doe Network. here is the link:

    http://doenetwork.org/cases/499ummn.html

    he does look Native American and they claim he might have been buried for up to 28 years.

    as for the hair color, etc., this is what DN had to say:

    Other facial details, such as the size of the ears and nose, and hair and eye color, are not known and reflect the best guess of the artist.

    so the key things are the shape of the head and the teeth.
     
  6. ThePhantom

    ThePhantom Active Member

    Messages:
    1,413
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Darn...oh well...

    Thank you for thinking of Joshua, Webrocket, and thank you for caring...
     
  7. webrocket

    webrocket New Member

    Messages:
    3,537
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I tried to look at Joshua's teeth versus the UID's as found on the DN reconstruction. it looks like the UID has a significant gap between tooth #9 and #10. Joshua looks like he has a gap between tooth #10 and #11.

    I have no luck zooming images and posting them here.
     
  8. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    7,939
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Upper teeth are numbered right-to-left (1 to 16).

    The UID's gap is on his right side, and appears not to be a "gap", but rather, a missing tooth (#7) between the right-canine (#6) and a right-central incisor (#8). The tooth on his right (or viewer's left) side of the gap is a pointed tooth, so I am thinking it's a canine (#6), and not a lateral incisor (#7).

    The dental chart indicates that #7 is missing postmortem, but I think that's a mistake. I don't think that they would show a model of the person's teeth showing that empty space if the tooth was lost after death.

    Joshua does appear to have a gap on the right side, but it looks to me like it's between #6 and #7. He could have lost the #7 after death (or after the photo was taken), but it looks to me like it would have left a bigger space if he did.
     
  9. webrocket

    webrocket New Member

    Messages:
    3,537
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I must have looked at the dental chart facing the wrong way.
     
  10. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    7,939
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Dental charts read from the viewer's perspective, not the charted person's perspective.

    So the UID's upper-right teeth (1-8) would be on the viewer's left.

    Kind of confusing.
     
  11. webrocket

    webrocket New Member

    Messages:
    3,537
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    for what it is worth, there is but one rule out on this case and it is Joshua Guimond. so maybe LE or the ME's office checks out this page.

    can't hurt if others are suggested.
     
  12. hayaletcatcher

    hayaletcatcher Active Member

    Messages:
    632
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Christopher Kerze has been ruled out
     
  13. catherine.

    catherine. New Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  14. creepedout

    creepedout Active Member

    Messages:
    724
    Likes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    28
  15. Otterly

    Otterly Member

    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    18
    He looks good to me, he's from the St. Paul and the highway that the remains were found (47) on is an artery out of the Twin Cities. The heights are also very close, 5'9" vs estimated 5'10". I'd guess LE would have thought of this case before because of the close geographic location, but you never know.

    Although Bernard's teeth look better than the UID's, the picture we have of him is obviously from high school as he's wearing a JROTC uniform. In addition, the two shoulder stripes indicate two years in the JROTC program. This likely means that this photo was taken his Sophomore year of high school (not to meantion he seems to be 15-16 in the photo in my opinion). This allows for 5-6 years of decay and dental changes to his teeth until he went missing in 1983. Maybe his dental hygene decreased in the intervening years after high school? I'd definitely turn it in.
     
  16. namstache

    namstache Member

    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Actually, has William Underhill been ruled out? Check out his teeth, lips, facial structure in these pics. Very similar. Also he disappeared around that time and was thought to be traveling toward Lake Superior from Minneapolis at the time of his disappearance, which would make sense for his location. Height is off (he was tall, over 6' I think) but it says it's an estimate anyway.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    https://www.facebook.com/William-Campbell-Underhill-Missing-Person-721412491335958/

     

    Attached Files:

  17. theshadow45

    theshadow45 Active Member

    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    136
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Welcome to Websleuths, namstache :welcome:! If you think this UID is William Underhill you should submit him. Harold Haynes has been added to the rule out list, but not WU.
     
  18. theshadow45

    theshadow45 Active Member

    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    136
    Trophy Points:
    43
    A few possibilities: one that I really like is John Deeny http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/deeny_john.html who has been missing from Janesville, MN since 1973. At the time, he was about to turn 20, 5'8" tall and 175 pounds, and had surgical scars on his thighs. Christopher Freeman http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/f/freeman_christopher.html and his friend Geno Ranelli http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/ranelli_geno.html both went missing from St. Paul, MN within a few weeks of each other in 1977. David Thomson http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/t/thomson_david.html has scoliosis and several previous fractures. Calvin Anderson http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/anderson_calvin.html is believed to be a murder victim. Dermot Kelly http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/kelly_dermot.html possibly left home of his own accord. Orin Anderson http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/anderson_orin.html has little information available.
     
  19. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    19,447
    Likes Received:
    2,201
    Trophy Points:
    113
    John Deeny looks very close to me. He even has high flat cheekbones and the same general shape of head and jaw.
     
  20. theshadow45

    theshadow45 Active Member

    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    136
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Side-by-sides of Isanti County John Doe and John Deeny: Isanti John Doe 1.jpg John P. Deeny.jpg Isanti John Doe 2.jpg .
     
  21. Otterly

    Otterly Member

    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    18
    John Should definitely be looked into by LE if he hasn't been already. According to google maps (of course this is by today's roads) Janesville is about 2 hours away from Isanti Co. That doesn't seem an unreasonable distance to dump a body, which I assume is what happened since this UID was found in a shallow grave.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice