MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #13

[human]

I wonder if Jacob recognized his abductor and the man possibly said to him, "do you recognize me?," and Jacob, being an honest soul, said to him, "yes, I recognize you from (fill in the blank) _______________ (hockey/when I was fishing/in the neighborhood/on TV/radio/school/from the Tom Thumb, etc). If this happened and Jacob admitted he recognized the abductor, that may have resulted in his death, as the perpetrator most definitely didn't want to be found out.

It's not a huge community -- if the perpetrator was local, which I believe he was, it's very possible Jacob may have at least seen him before -- enough to say, "yes, that's the man who assaulted me -- I recognize his voice and his face."

I remain convinced that if those here who have been diligently studying this case could see the actual files (of LE), it would not be long before you would be able to not only identify the culprit but also understand why he has not been charged in Jacob's abduction (and possibly others?).

After all, to the best of my knowledge, no one here has any conflict of interest, nor baggage related to this case, nor "official"mistakes made in pursuing the perpetrator, nor any kind of blackmail or threats, or anything else that might impede us from objectively assessing ALL the suspects in the context of the FACTS and what is known to be true and truthful. Unfortunately, we are not entitled to know all the facts, and what is true and truthful, except that which we can deduce based upon the minimal amount of information we have. (yes, minimal, because I assure you that file is huge and filled with all kinds of interesting info).

I would like to know, but seriously, who are we? Nobody.

 

[human]

Tracker:



I've given consideration to the possibility that Jacob possibly 'knew' the abductor, even to some really limited extent. In other words, maybe at some point, Jacob had been around him, even somewhat limitedly, given that, at some point, it may have come back to Jacob who the man was, possibly by his voice or whatever triggered his memory; and, for this reason, that's why the man took Jacob as opposed to the others. So, possibly the man knew that he and Jacob had some, possibly extremely limited (or not extremely limited) interaction and for that reason, he couldn't let Jacob go; and, that's why he took Jacob of the three. Just a possibility.

I fully agree with you about the concept that if 'All' the facts of the scenario were available; that there are people in the public who could easily add to the investigation, quite significantly. Also, agreeing with what Tracker said in an earlier post, just before yours about releasing the information to the public.

View attachment 66739 View attachment 66740

The public has known about this for 25 years.

Some public chooses to make prank phone calls. Some public chooses extortion. Some public makes up stuff .

The public can tell LE and they can fit it into their tons and tons of stuff.

Look at that info! Wow

 

[Dave K]

The public has known about this for 25 years.

Some public chooses to make prank phone calls. Some public chooses extortion. Some public makes up stuff .

The public can tell LE and they can fit it into their tons and tons of stuff.

Look at that info! Wow

I'm not certain just what you're saying there.

The public has known that Jacob was abducted for 25 years; yes, they have.

I'm just not certain of what you're saying or where you're going with those comments.

 

[human]

I'm not certain just what you're saying there.

The public has known that Jacob was abducted for 25 years; yes, they have.

I'm just not certain of what you're saying or where you're going with those comments.

If the public has info, the abduction is no surprise.

So they will give info or they will choose to remain silent.

The public has had plenty of time and opportunity to add to the information. I believe you said you saw this on the Hunt.

Jacob is not new to the people of Minnesota. I would venture a guess that most people in the state were affected intensely. Our innocence of living in Lake Woebegone was taken.

 

[Dave K]

If the public has info, the abduction is no surprise.

So they will give info or they will choose to remain silent.

The public has had plenty of time and opportunity to add to the information. I believe you said you saw this on the Hunt.

Jacob is not new to the people of Minnesota. I would venture a guess that most people in the state were affected intensely. Our innocence of living in Lake Woebegone was taken.

Well, I don't understand the point you're making in regards to the ongoing discussion.

You directed your comments to a post I made; I had quoted both Phantom and Tracker. The comments I made were in context of those posts, and others that have been made on an ongoing basis on the board here.

I don't see where anyone's saying anything about Jacob's abduction being a surprise; or that no one's known about it for quite some time. Obviously, it's been quite well known for quite some time.

 

[kemo]

I suspect that the perp who assaulted Jared had some ties to Cold Spring. That is why he asked Jared "are you sure you don't recognize me".

 

[human]

I suspect that the perp who assaulted Jared had some ties to Cold Spring. That is why he asked Jared "are you sure you don't recognize me".

I am very enthralled with the Kraemer connection.

The perp asked about Kraemer's and the Bell's hill and the Kraemer's business.

What does this mean? Coincidence or ???????

 

[Trino]

A third party? Why?

I doubt if there is insurance money.

Yes. There was insurance money. He received $600,000.

The point is if LE shared information with a third party (anyone), the judge ruled it could no longer be considered private. Soooo, if someone sued Stearns Co LE, if they could prove info was given to anyone, it would no longer be considered private.

 

[Trackergd]

I would like to know, but seriously, who are we? Nobody.

Well, not "exactly" nobody... We are individuals from all walks of life who care about the missing and victims. We give of our most precious resource...time.

We have a number of technical professionals on this site who have resources of their own and on occasion bring their skill sets and resources to bear on cases.

We have something LE does not...Unlimited hours to pick through photographs, make comparisons of sketches and photographs, review known evidence and confirmed information. We spitball theories and scenarios until something sticks on the wall, then pick it to pieces to see if it is part of the puzzle.

The ability in some cases to put WS boots on the ground to take additional photographs, talk to the locals and interface with various agencies.

 

[ThePhantom]

I once found a young man who had been missing for four years. All I knew about him was whatever I learned on the internet. His family had the local police and the FBI looking for him. Yes, according to the local police I was not allowed to know more details or see any files and I did understand that. After all, obviously I'm not a law enforcement officer. But in my desire to find him, I kept going. I felt like, well, I might as well try. I often prayed for help to find him. There he lay, for four long years, in a morgue far from home. I think, sometimes, it takes someone standing far back and looking at the situation to gain clarity. In the case of Stearns County, just standing back and looking in, I see layers of connections, "understandings"(i.e. "don't go there"), covered missteps, rationalizations, justifications and so on. I also recognize as some here have pointed out that Stearns has successfully dealt with many situations. And we've all read the numerous cases a la "after 40 years, a suspect (in jail/still alive/deceased) has been charged." I hate to think that will be the fate for the Wetterling case. And there's that annoying, frustrating feeling of -- they know who did it but they can't or -- stretching my field of thought wildly that possibly/ maybe /perhaps they won',t for one reason or another, pursue it (him). How much did I and do I really know about this case? As it turns out, not too much and not enough. Thanks to this group I know far, far more than I ever would have on my own -- so thank you for that. At what point does truth and justice deserve to take the front seat above everything else? There is no great answer to that, because it seems as with so many things in life, it's all fifty shades of gray....talk about tormenting.

 

[human]

Yes. There was insurance money. He received $600,000.

The point is if LE shared information with a third party (anyone), the judge ruled it could no longer be considered private. Soooo, if someone sued Stearns Co LE, if they could prove info was given to anyone, it would no longer be considered private.

Who got insurance money?

Anyone can sue anyone. But winning is a huge problem. And a judge can throw a case out before any suit.

My hubby was being sued at his job by a supplier. The supplier thought my hubby was a moron.

Hubby had huge documentation and when he presented it to the jusge before the trial, the case was thrown out and the guy trying to sue was reprimanded.

 

[human]

Well, not "exactly" nobody... We are individuals from all walks of life who care about the missing and victims. We give of our most precious resource...time.

We have a number of technical professionals on this site who have resources of their own and on occasion bring their skill sets and resources to bear on cases.

We have something LE does not...Unlimited hours to pick through photographs, make comparisons of sketches and photographs, review known evidence and confirmed information. We spitball theories and scenarios until something sticks on the wall, then pick it to pieces to see if it is part of the puzzle.

The ability in some cases to put WS boots on the ground to take additional photographs, talk to the locals and interface with various agencies.

Sure, people can do whatever on their own. But the legal system has rules. We do not qualify under those rules.

For instance, with Joy meddling in the case, she has caused numerous problems for LE in terms of interviewing people. Who knows what other stupid stuff people would do because they are not allowed to dig into private lives.

That's the way it is in the US vs someplace like the Middle East.

 

[human]

I once found a young man who had been missing for four years. All I knew about him was whatever I learned on the internet. His family had the local police and the FBI looking for him. Yes, according to the local police I was not allowed to know more details or see any files and I did understand that. After all, obviously I'm not a law enforcement officer. But in my desire to find him, I kept going. I felt like, well, I might as well try. I often prayed for help to find him. There he lay, for four long years, in a morgue far from home. I think, sometimes, it takes someone standing far back and looking at the situation to gain clarity. In the case of Stearns County, just standing back and looking in, I see layers of connections, "understandings"(i.e. "don't go there"), covered missteps, rationalizations, justifications and so on. I also recognize as some here have pointed out that Stearns has successfully dealt with many situations. And we've all read the numerous cases a la "after 40 years, a suspect (in jail/still alive/deceased) has been charged." I hate to think that will be the fate for the Wetterling case. And there's that annoying, frustrating feeling of -- they know who did it but they can't or -- stretching my field of thought wildly that possibly/ maybe /perhaps they won',t for one reason or another, pursue it (him). How much did I and do I really know about this case? As it turns out, not too much and not enough. Thanks to this group I know far, far more than I ever would have on my own -- so thank you for that. At what point does truth and justice deserve to take the front seat above everything else? There is no great answer to that, because it seems as with so many things in life, it's all fifty shades of gray....talk about tormenting.

It is not just Stearns Co. It is the BCA, the FBI and the Center for Missing and Exploited Children

 

[human]

DR never lost his job. In fact, "Mr. Bee Bop" is very popular with his students. His record with the school system shows absolutely no problems.

We have no idea of any problems.

I know having my hubby be a manager does not mean I was one, but take it for what it is .

Because of lawsuits, personnel records basically contain the date of hire of someone. Nothing is written down.

My hubby has received glowing recommendations of people to hire. Then he finds out the hard way the recommendations were because the company was so excited that maybe they could get rid of the person finally.

 

[thenotebook]

We have no idea of any problems.

I know having my hubby be a manager does not mean I was one, but take it for what it is .

Because of lawsuits, personnel records basically contain the date of hire of someone. Nothing is written down.

My hubby has received glowing recommendations of people to hire. Then he finds out the hard way the recommendations were because the company was so excited that maybe they could get rid of the person finally.

The superintendent himself stated that DR has a clean record with the school. Not sure we need any more proof than that. If there were any actual problems with DR, we would have heard about them. A parent would have blabbed to the media or sued the district by now.

 

[thenotebook]

For instance, with Joy meddling in the case, she has caused numerous problems for LE in terms of interviewing people.

What do you mean? What sort of problems has she caused for LE? These people willingly interviewed with Joy by their own accord

 

[Dave K]

What do you mean? What sort of problems has she caused for LE? These people willingly interviewed with Joy by their own accord

Personally, I think that if more people on this board would read Joy's blog somewhat thoroughly, there would be more clarification on a number of issues on the board.

There've been a good number of issues on the board which have been answered, clarified with information from Joy's blog. Frankly, most of the badmouthing I've seen of the blog is really off-target.

Jared, a victim himself, has worked closely with Joy and has high regard for what she's brought to the investigation. He calls what she brought out concerning the Paynesville attacks as "The biggest lead in 25 years!" To me, that's a very profound statement and his opinion is well worth considering. Patty Wetterling, Jacob's Mom, is greatly appreciative of what Joy has done in regards to the investigation; Patty, as is obvious from her attitude and comments seen in videos, is very appreciative of being in touch with Jared, and from everything I've seen, it was Joy who basically brought them together; Patty says she had only known of him and knew his first name, but, nothing else about him, now, they're friends.

So, for me, the positive considerations from Patty Wetterling and Jared outweigh any negative considerations, including any from the local law enforcement.

I'd expect that it's safe to presume that Patty was quite involved with the making of "The Hunt" - it would only make sense. Joy is prominently featured in that production, so, to me, it's pretty clear that Patty supports her efforts.

 

[Trino]

The problem is WS posters have no legal status. If online we were to uncover information, I'm not certain LE would even take it seriously. After all, we would be encroaching on their territory.

 

[Sleutherish]

Smokey was an outside dog with the propensity to bark as well. I find it odd that he would bark at a car turning around but not at one sitting in the long driveway.

I wonder if Smokey barked as the boys went by initially. Was the dog chained up? Maybe he barked at the boys on their way to Tom Thumb, then at the perp, then during abduction, then at Kevin as he turned around in the driveway. Could it be the prolonged barking that finally woke DR?

 

[shergal]

Personally, I think that if more people on this board would read Joy's blog somewhat thoroughly, there would be more clarification on a number of issues on the board.

There've been a good number of issues on the board which have been answered, clarified with information from Joy's blog. Frankly, most of the badmouthing I've seen of the blog is really off-target.

Jared, a victim himself, has worked closely with Joy and has high regard for what she's brought to the investigation. He calls what she brought out concerning the Paynesville attacks as "The biggest lead in 25 years!" To me, that's a very profound statement and his opinion is well worth considering. Patty Wetterling, Jacob's Mom, is greatly appreciative of what Joy has done in regards to the investigation; Patty, as is obvious from her attitude and comments seen in videos, is very appreciative of being in touch with Jared, and from everything I've seen, it was Joy who basically brought them together; Patty says she had only known of him and knew his first name, but, nothing else about him, now, they're friends.

So, for me, the positive considerations from Patty Wetterling and Jared outweigh any negative considerations, including any from the local law enforcement.

I'd expect that it's safe to presume that Patty was quite involved with the making of "The Hunt" - it would only make sense. Joy is prominently featured in that production, so, to me, it's pretty clear that Patty supports her efforts.

RBBM

While I agree that Patty seems to be grateful to Joy, there's some misinformation here.

Jared first went public about his assault back in 2004.

He met with Patty Wetterling back then (see photo).
http://www.immelman.us/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Jared-Patty_KARE11-2004.jpg
(from: http://www.immelman.us/news/jacob-wetterling-rassier-search/)

And news articles:
http://archive.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=63364

http://archive.kare11.com/news/article/63324/26/kare-11-investigates-coincidence-in-wetterling-case

Joy did not introduce them. (She may have told Patty Jared's last name, and brought them together for another meeting this past year.)

The video you have probably seen showing Jared with Patty is from 2004.

And this quote (from above link) is also from 2004.

"Patty always knew there was a Jared, but until a few weeks ago they had never met.

"All I knew was Jared, I never knew his last name," Patty said, recalling how much work Jared has done behind the scenes. "And the pressure they put him through, oh my god, every time we had a new suspect they're running it past this poor 13-year-old kid. My gosh, that's hard."
http://archive.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=63364