Pensfan
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2009
- Messages
- 7,472
- Reaction score
- 61
What makes you certain that Dan Rassier didn't abduct Jacob? You've thrown out several <modnsip> suspects, but you never mention Dan's name. Why?
MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #6
- Thread starter SheWhoMustNotBeNamed
- Start date
New Posts
-
TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL #3- Latest: nodamselindistress
- Status
What makes you certain that Dan Rassier didn't abduct Jacob? You've thrown out several <modnsip> suspects, but you never mention Dan's name. Why?
Duane Hart was a classic Fixated Preferential Pedophile. They are the "seducers". Most of the priest, scoutmaster type pedophiles are in this category. I can't find definitively that these pedophiles never snatch and abduct young boys off the street but I suspect that is mostly the realm of the Regressed pedophiles.
Jared apparently did not recognize Hart in the lineup and he seems to believe,although short of absolute certainty, that Hart was not his abductor. He is definitely open to the possibility that his abductor was also the guy who took Jacob.
A childhood friend of mine was abducted in a manner very similar to Jared. The perp was an Army deserter who had been living out of his car. He spoke with a "hillbilly" accent and had very bad acne scars. The was very consistent with other cases of abducting pedophiles. Low social class, limited social skills and under a lot of stress with little reasonable chance of finding an adult sexual partner. It is also consistent with a Regressive Pedophile.
From what I can tell, the regressive, abductor type pedophile very rarely kill or "disappear" their victims. There have been some situations of serial killers that targeted boys but most of the victims were sexually mature young men. There have been few that targeted Pre-adolescent boys.
It would be interesting to know more about the suspect the FBI developed for Jared. The only real "marker" for a regressive abductor type pedophile is a history of abducting and raping young boys. Suspects can be developed for different reasons including proximity to a crime scene, but without a confession or significant forensic evidence, I don't see how any case can be brought to trial or guilt can be inferred.
My own WAG (wild *advertiser censored* guess) is essentially the same as the second comment on Joy's 1/7/14 blog with the added speculation that killing Jacob was not part of the plan and was something that "went wrong". Perhaps Jacob recognized the abductor or the abductor ended up using far more force than he had intended. I suspect this was the last snatch and abduction this perp ever did in Minnesota but he may have relocated and resumed his activities.
Jared apparently did not recognize Hart in the lineup and he seems to believe,although short of absolute certainty, that Hart was not his abductor. He is definitely open to the possibility that his abductor was also the guy who took Jacob.
A childhood friend of mine was abducted in a manner very similar to Jared. The perp was an Army deserter who had been living out of his car. He spoke with a "hillbilly" accent and had very bad acne scars. The was very consistent with other cases of abducting pedophiles. Low social class, limited social skills and under a lot of stress with little reasonable chance of finding an adult sexual partner. It is also consistent with a Regressive Pedophile.
From what I can tell, the regressive, abductor type pedophile very rarely kill or "disappear" their victims. There have been some situations of serial killers that targeted boys but most of the victims were sexually mature young men. There have been few that targeted Pre-adolescent boys.
It would be interesting to know more about the suspect the FBI developed for Jared. The only real "marker" for a regressive abductor type pedophile is a history of abducting and raping young boys. Suspects can be developed for different reasons including proximity to a crime scene, but without a confession or significant forensic evidence, I don't see how any case can be brought to trial or guilt can be inferred.
My own WAG (wild *advertiser censored* guess) is essentially the same as the second comment on Joy's 1/7/14 blog with the added speculation that killing Jacob was not part of the plan and was something that "went wrong". Perhaps Jacob recognized the abductor or the abductor ended up using far more force than he had intended. I suspect this was the last snatch and abduction this perp ever did in Minnesota but he may have relocated and resumed his activities.
ELOCsoul
Verified Author - "Finding Jacob Wetterling"
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2012
- Messages
- 1,378
- Reaction score
- 253
Hmmm - Jacob buried under a road? I read about that when I first started researching the case, it was a popular rumor in the area indeed. However, it was checked out by LE and dismissed.
What would be a more logical possibility would be to consider what else was going on in the area at the time that would bring people to the area. For example, Fingerhut was in the process of completing a significant expansion of their operation in nearby Waite Park at the time. I wonder if LE looked into the construction crews?
ELOCsoul
Verified Author - "Finding Jacob Wetterling"
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2012
- Messages
- 1,378
- Reaction score
- 253
On Friday January 13, 1989 there was an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting at 8:30pm at the Alano building in Cold Spring. I wonder if LE looked at who was at the meeting and checked into whether or not those with an alcohol problem may have had some other problems?
Jared's abduction was at about 9:45 pm.
Jared's abduction was at about 9:45 pm.
Interesting about the AA meeting.
Most pedophiles do not want to kill their victims. That is not the intent,
Some end up killing because they want to remove any evidence of their crime.
I think the it may have been an instance of things spiraling out of control.
WHERE WAS DR when all of these loud things were going on? He failed to put any of the noise into his explanations, so it makes me wonder where he , in fact, was.
Most pedophiles do not want to kill their victims. That is not the intent,
Some end up killing because they want to remove any evidence of their crime.
I think the it may have been an instance of things spiraling out of control.
WHERE WAS DR when all of these loud things were going on? He failed to put any of the noise into his explanations, so it makes me wonder where he , in fact, was.
I used to think pedophiles were creepy guys with no friends.
Now with all of the doctors, lawyers, teachers, scout masters, priests, coaches, and on and on being busted, it is an eye opener.
Israel Keyes was a mind blower. His traveling and planning. Ugly beyond belief.
The depths of depravity are astounding
Now with all of the doctors, lawyers, teachers, scout masters, priests, coaches, and on and on being busted, it is an eye opener.
Israel Keyes was a mind blower. His traveling and planning. Ugly beyond belief.
The depths of depravity are astounding
Jbrown324320
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2010
- Messages
- 1,140
- Reaction score
- 262
I know I am not a mental health expert, but I do think that DAH is still going to be at the top of my list of suspects. per the appeal to involuntary committment, he is sexually dangerous and a sexual psychopath:
"The sexual psychopathic personality commitment statute, as interpreted by the supreme court, requires
(a) a "habitual course of misconduct in sexual matters" and (b) "an utter lack of power to control * * * sexual impulses" so that (c) it is likely the person will "attack or otherwise inflict injury, loss, pain or other evil on the objects of their uncontrolled and uncontrollable desire."
http://mn.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19960220_0003.mn.htm/qx
"The sexual psychopathic personality commitment statute, as interpreted by the supreme court, requires
(a) a "habitual course of misconduct in sexual matters" and (b) "an utter lack of power to control * * * sexual impulses" so that (c) it is likely the person will "attack or otherwise inflict injury, loss, pain or other evil on the objects of their uncontrolled and uncontrollable desire."
http://mn.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19960220_0003.mn.htm/qx
Jbrown324320
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2010
- Messages
- 1,140
- Reaction score
- 262
they also believe that he is at risk to seriously harm others, hence the involuntary committment (see same link above)
"The third element requires a finding that, as a result of Hart's various disorders, he is likely to engage in sexual acts that create a substantial likelihood of serious physical or emotional harm to another. Minn. Stat. § 253B.02, subd. 18b(a)(3). As noted in our consideration of Hart's sexual psychopathic personality commitment, we conclude that clear and convincing evidence supports this third element.
The evidence supports the district court's determination of commitment under the sexually dangerous person statute.
Affirmed. "
3 psychologists who examined Hart agree that he has pedophilia with a lack of self control when he is alone with children and refuses treatment:
"The expert testimony further demonstrated Hart's utter lack of control. Dr. Fox testified that Hart would be inclined to offend if he were alone with a child, that Hart cannot control his urges consistently, and that he acts impulsively when alone with children. Dr. Hoberman testified that Hart lacks the ability to control his sexual impulses, fixates on young males, experiences intense urges to sexually offend despite a victim's protests or resistance, and has profound difficulty controlling his behavior. Although Dr. Austin identified greater difficulty in controlling actions, he did not describe Hart as impulsive. All three experts diagnosed Hart with pedophilia. Two of them also diagnosed Hart with anti-social personality, and Dr. Austin found that Hart had "many signs of anti-social behavior." The three experts also diagnosed Hart as chemically dependent. They agreed his dangerousness would be reduced by treatment, but Hart will not undertake treatment."
"The court found that Hart is currently unable to control his sexual impulses or overcome his intense, fixated, and dangerous urges. The evidence amply supports the court's findings on Hart's utter lack of control."
"The third element requires a finding that, as a result of Hart's various disorders, he is likely to engage in sexual acts that create a substantial likelihood of serious physical or emotional harm to another. Minn. Stat. § 253B.02, subd. 18b(a)(3). As noted in our consideration of Hart's sexual psychopathic personality commitment, we conclude that clear and convincing evidence supports this third element.
The evidence supports the district court's determination of commitment under the sexually dangerous person statute.
Affirmed. "
3 psychologists who examined Hart agree that he has pedophilia with a lack of self control when he is alone with children and refuses treatment:
"The expert testimony further demonstrated Hart's utter lack of control. Dr. Fox testified that Hart would be inclined to offend if he were alone with a child, that Hart cannot control his urges consistently, and that he acts impulsively when alone with children. Dr. Hoberman testified that Hart lacks the ability to control his sexual impulses, fixates on young males, experiences intense urges to sexually offend despite a victim's protests or resistance, and has profound difficulty controlling his behavior. Although Dr. Austin identified greater difficulty in controlling actions, he did not describe Hart as impulsive. All three experts diagnosed Hart with pedophilia. Two of them also diagnosed Hart with anti-social personality, and Dr. Austin found that Hart had "many signs of anti-social behavior." The three experts also diagnosed Hart as chemically dependent. They agreed his dangerousness would be reduced by treatment, but Hart will not undertake treatment."
"The court found that Hart is currently unable to control his sexual impulses or overcome his intense, fixated, and dangerous urges. The evidence amply supports the court's findings on Hart's utter lack of control."
They are all like that in there, but some crazy lawyers want to let these people out. It makes me sick!!!
Don't you think his poverty and his use of chemical substances since age 6 make it hard to believe he can be a master criminal?
Don't you think his poverty and his use of chemical substances since age 6 make it hard to believe he can be a master criminal?
I wouldn't describe him as a "master criminal" so much as someone who would take a chance if he saw an opportunity with a child. And there were lots of children and plenty of opportunities. IMO, he was the abductor in the Paynesville cases, possibly included Jared - although maybe not if Jared didn't recognize him.
I don't think he had the vehicle or means to get to St. Joseph though late on a Sunday night. (Unless he had a ride with someone else to the polka fest in St. Joe that day? And he was out wandering looking for children instead of inside.) But then the problem remains of how he would have taken Jacob out of St. Joe and returned to Paynesville.
I think Jacob's case was different, done on the spur of the moment, with no intent to kill, and something went wrong. It may have scared the abductor so badly, he has never done anything similar again.
ELOCsoul
Verified Author - "Finding Jacob Wetterling"
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2012
- Messages
- 1,378
- Reaction score
- 253
You may remember this case from almost 7 years ago, 3 year old Madeleine McCann went missing from her parents vacation apartment in Portugal.
Recently the case was reinvigorated when a public campaign brought in more tips and information.
To make a long story short, this case is on the verge of being solved because someone made a connection to what was going on in the area at the time of the abduction. It turns out there had been a rash of burglaries in the area in the months around May 2007. In one such burglary attempt the perps were caught in the act by a parent and fled the apartment. Names of potential suspects were developed. And now, authorities have found that 3 burglary suspects from that area of Portugal had unusually high activity on their cell phones during the hours immediately after Madeliene's abduction.
It is productive to go back and study what was going on in the area when a crime like this was committed.
Disappearance of Madeleine McCann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Recently the case was reinvigorated when a public campaign brought in more tips and information.
To make a long story short, this case is on the verge of being solved because someone made a connection to what was going on in the area at the time of the abduction. It turns out there had been a rash of burglaries in the area in the months around May 2007. In one such burglary attempt the perps were caught in the act by a parent and fled the apartment. Names of potential suspects were developed. And now, authorities have found that 3 burglary suspects from that area of Portugal had unusually high activity on their cell phones during the hours immediately after Madeliene's abduction.
It is productive to go back and study what was going on in the area when a crime like this was committed.
Disappearance of Madeleine McCann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
ELOCsoul
Verified Author - "Finding Jacob Wetterling"
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2012
- Messages
- 1,378
- Reaction score
- 253
The United States case of*People v. Scott held that "circumstantial evidence, when sufficient to exclude every other reasonable hypothesis, may prove the death of a missing person, the existence of a homicide and the guilt of the accused".
ELOCsoul
Verified Author - "Finding Jacob Wetterling"
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2012
- Messages
- 1,378
- Reaction score
- 253
Actually, Jared doesn't say whether or not he recognized Hart, just that he looked at him in line-ups, and that Hart was not charged with his abduction and assault:
Over the years, I did line-ups with this man and was questioned extensively to see if I would recognize him. He was never charged in my case and, to this day, he denies any involvement.
Nothing against Jared, but his sentences don't lead to any definitive conclusion.
Yes, I agree it was related to the investigation as I said above. I also found this comment interesting..
"Hart matches the general description provided in sketches of suspects in the Wetterling case, according to FBI spokesman Byron Gigler"
- Status