MN - Jamar Clark, 24, shot by LE, Minneapolis, 15 Nov 2015

[K_Z]

I personally don't believe NLP's characterization of pretty much anything related to the Minneapolis Police, let alone her use of the word "beat". I watched quite a bit of the livestream, and I saw the crowd behavior. I'm inclined to side with police on this one, again.

I wonder if NLP would characterize what Jamar Clark did as "beating" his girlfriend so badly she needed surgery for a broken ankle? Or was that just another of Jamar Clark's little "mistakes"?

I wonder if NLP would characterize what Jamar Clark did to the paramedics and police officers as "beating"? Or were those just more of Jamar Clark's little "mistakes"?

Yeah, Jamar Clark was REALLY turning his life around, right? Including the terroristic threats he was arrested for and charged with recently? Peaceful guy, all right. Not.

Does anyone honestly think these crowds would be "protesting" if Jamar Clark had killed his GF? Or killed a paramedic or police officer?

 

[Woodland]

How is it that a group of dozens of people, living in the same apartment complex, got together immediately after JC was shot and claimed he was handcuffed and on the ground? Since it was an immediate claim by witnesses who live there, find myself believing them.

If the handcuff claim was made a day, day and a half, two days later I would doubt it altogether.

Why is the head of the Minneapolis Police Union making the public statement that JC was reaching for an officers gun - 3 days after the fact?

Union officials with Minneapolis police say an investigation shows Jamar Clark was reaching for an officer’s gun when he was shot early Sunday morning in north Minneapolis.

The police union also says Clark was not handcuffed when the shooting took place and handcuffs were never on.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/11/18/2-officers-involved-in-jamar-clark-shooting-identified/

Not believing him - especially since the investigators are saying nothing at this time. The union is not investigating the shooting.

Notice that in Toronto the same thing is happening - the police union is making public statements from time to time regarding an officer under investigation. New trend with LE? Investigators can't speak so get the union to do it - whether the info is right or wrong? Sneaky imo.

 

[K_Z]

How is it that a group of dozens of people, living in the same apartment complex, got together immediately after JC was shot and claimed he was handcuffed and on the ground? Since it was an immediate claim by witnesses who live there, find myself believing them.

If the handcuff claim was made a day, day and a half, two days later I would doubt it altogether.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/11/18/2-officers-involved-in-jamar-clark-shooting-identified/

Snipped for focus.

How did this happen? Well, it DID happen in Ferguson with Michael Brown, remember? With a large crowd of eyewitnesses.

Remember ALL the stories from "eye witnesses" that were ultimately proven to be completely false by the DOJ in their own investigation?? Have we forgotten that so soon? The very lies that the BLM movement is based on?

All the stories that Michael Brown was running away and shot multiple times in the back? That he was on his knees with his hands up begging for his life saying "don't shoot?" That the officer stood over him and pumped bullets into him as he lay on the ground bleeding and dying, begging for his life? Those were the stories within literally MINUTES of the Michael Brown shooting.

How soon we forget the widespread lies that destroyed a good police officer's life, and spawned a domestic terroristic movement. IMO.

 

[Woodland]

Is Minneapolis police union President Bob Kroll giving everyone a heads up on what the investigation will conclude?

"… The shooting wasn't a misfire," he says. "It wasn't an accident. The officer intended to shoot this guy and the handcuffs were not on him at all."

Clark was shot in the melee, according to Kroll, who adds, "I am very confident that it's going to be [determined] to be a justifiable shooting."

http://www.citypages.com/news/minne...amar-clark-was-a-justifiable-shooting-7841420

Wish Kroll would clarify why a bullet over stun gun, mace ect.

 

[Always Amazed]

I'm not disputing the altercation between JC and the unidentified woman, but in regard to the "hurt ankle" there are a lot of ways to hurt your own ankle. No one reported that JC dragged the woman down the stairs by her ankle.

"The confrontation began about 12:45 a.m. in the 1600 block of Plymouth Avenue N., according to police. Authorities have yet to reveal the identities of the people involved or elaborate on the exact circumstances leading up to the assault."

http://www.startribune.com/police-o...t-suspect-during-physical-struggle/349730171/

 

[Always Amazed]

Is Minneapolis police union President Bob Kroll giving everyone a heads up on what the investigation will conclude?

"… The shooting wasn't a misfire," he says. "It wasn't an accident. The officer intended to shoot this guy and the handcuffs were not on him at all."

Clark was shot in the melee, according to Kroll, who adds, "I am very confident that it's going to be [determined] to be a justifiable shooting."

http://www.citypages.com/news/minne...amar-clark-was-a-justifiable-shooting-7841420

Wish Kroll would clarify why a bullet over stun gun, mace ect.

So it was an "intended" good shoot but took place during a "melee" (a confused hand-to-hand fight or struggle among several people)?

Do a little background on Kroll and you'll see why people question the way MPD says this went down.

 

[bluesneakers]

How is it that a group of dozens of people, living in the same apartment complex, got together immediately after JC was shot and claimed he was handcuffed and on the ground? Since it was an immediate claim by witnesses who live there, find myself believing them.

If the handcuff claim was made a day, day and a half, two days later I would doubt it altogether.

Why is the head of the Minneapolis Police Union making the public statement that JC was reaching for an officers gun - 3 days after the fact?

Union officials with Minneapolis police say an investigation shows Jamar Clark was reaching for an officer’s gun when he was shot early Sunday morning in north Minneapolis.

The police union also says Clark was not handcuffed when the shooting took place and handcuffs were never on.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/11/18/2-officers-involved-in-jamar-clark-shooting-identified/

Not believing him - especially since the investigators are saying nothing at this time. The union is not investigating the shooting.

Notice that in Toronto the same thing is happening - the police union is making public statements from time to time regarding an officer under investigation. New trend with LE? Investigators can't speak so get the union to do it - whether the info is right or wrong? Sneaky imo.

Wait. Is the officer's gun thing new? I thought they claimed he was interfering with them and the EMTs.

I agree it seems kind of sneaky. The Union is going to be biased and they can say whatever they want. Their first job is to protect the police officers. Which I get, all workers should have unions, but I don't trust them.

Are you talking about Forcillo? I've had to take a break from the case because I get too upset.

 

[K_Z]

If someone is struggling with an officer and reaches for their gun, the officer, or any other officer nearby, will shoot to kill. As it should be. That is no time for a stun gun, a discussion, or a hug.

If you are being disarmed by a criminal assailant, you shoot to kill. Without hesitation.

If this is what happened, and I think it is, from the info coming out (especially the one shot to the head), then the officers were justified, and absolutely did the right thing in the situation.

No hesitation. Shoot to kill immediately when someone is trying to disarm you. Otherwise, you, and others, will be dead. The officer shot and killed a few weeks ago in a hospital room with his own weapon is a terrifying example of the power of impulsive or determined criminals.

 

[Always Amazed]

JC should have been handcuffed and not allowed any opportunity to gain access to the officer's gun. They should be fired for allowing an unarmed suspect access to their weapon.

 

[Woodland]

JC should have been handcuffed and not allowed any opportunity to gain access to the officer's gun. They should be fired for allowing an unarmed suspect access to their weapon.

Was just getting to that - thanks.

 

[popsicle]

Last night there were multiple gunshots fired and also Molotov cocktails thrown.

http://www.kare11.com/videos/news/2013/11/20/3650815/


Twelve squad cars with significant damage, a broken window, a totaled retaining wall and three Molotov cocktails. A frustrated Minneapolis Police Chief listed the damages caused by night four of the ongoing protests at the Fourth Precinct.

 

[Always Amazed]

This is new regarding the police officers involved:

"Ringgenberg has no record of disciplinary action in Minneapolis, according to the Minneapolis police union. He previously worked as a cop in Maple Grove, Minn., and San Diego, Calif. In 2012, Ringgenberg and another San Diego officer were accused of excessive force. A New Jersey man said Ringgenberg had grabbed him from behind and held him a chokehold. The man's federal civil rights lawsuit was settled.

Schwarze worked as an officer in Richfield, Minn., between 2008-14. He has no record of disciplinary action in Minneapolis, according to the police union."

http://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/11/19/jamar-clark-shooting

 

[bwt42]

JC should have been handcuffed and not allowed any opportunity to gain access to the officer's gun. They should be fired for allowing an unarmed suspect access to their weapon.

How do you handcuff him? Send in a robot?

 

[bluesneakers]

How do you handcuff him? Send in a robot?

Cops put people in handcuffs every day without incident.

 

[bwt42]

Cops put people in handcuffs every day without incident.

My point was how do you put handcuffs on without risking the possibility of the perp grabbing the officers gun. I was responding to a poster that suggested the officer had a way to handcuff the perp without the perp being able to grab for the gun. The poster even suggested the officer should be fired if he couldn't perform this maneuver.

 

[bwt42]

JC should have been handcuffed and not allowed any opportunity to gain access to the officer's gun. They should be fired for allowing an unarmed suspect access to their weapon.

Would you like to see the officer mentioned earlier in this thread that was killed with his own weapon fired posthumously & his family denied benefits due to his egregious behavior?

 

[bluesneakers]

My point was how do you put handcuffs on without risking the possibility of the perp grabbing the officers gun. I was responding to a poster that suggested the officer had a way to handcuff the perp without the perp being able to grab for the gun. The poster even suggested the officer should be fired if he couldn't perform this maneuver.

I don't know how they do it, but they do it every day. That's all.

 

[K_Z]

MINNEAPOLIS - Twelve squad cars with significant damage, a broken window, a totaled retaining wall and three Molotov cocktails. A frustrated Minneapolis Police Chief listed the damages caused by night four of the ongoing protests at the Fourth Precinct.

Chief Janee Harteau said at a press conference on Thursday the squad car damages are estimated at $25,000, there's another $13,000 in damages for two portable cameras that were broken and they're still waiting on total damages for the broken window, damaged fence and totaled retaining wall at the precinct.

She said those at the protest, estimated at upwards of 400 total, were mostly peaceful -- but some threw bottles, hundreds of rocks and a dozen bricks. One officer was sprayed with an irritant and required medical attention, Harteau said.

But perhaps most disturbing were the three Molotov cocktails thrown at police officers late Wednesday night -- at a time when Harteau said most protesters had left the area for the evening.

"We support peaceful demonstrations but we will not tolerate violent actions that will put our public at risk in the city of Minneapolis," Harteau said. "And I also will not tolerate any violent actions against my officers and will hold those responsible ... accountable.

\

http://www.kare11.com/story/news/lo...rd-police-by-anarchists-at-protests/76068822/

I personally don't think peaceful demonstrations are possible in this part of town-- certainly not after dark, and with these particular people. And with professional activists and local agitators whipping up the crowd, the situation is even more precarious. Just inches away from full on out of control rioting.

This is why I don't think this kind of ongoing tolerance of this kind of crowd behavior should be tolerated for days on end. The minute rocks were thrown, they should have assertively dispersed the crowd, and promptly arrested anyone who would not leave.

This kind of misplaced "tolerance" for violence, property damage, and lawless behavior, even among those who are peacefully standing there, is what leads to escalating crowd behavior and riots, IMO. There is no negotinating with these kind of protesters, IMO-- absolutely nothing will appease them when they get in this mode and mindset. This is precisely why Baltimore burned. Violent crowd behavior is criminal, very dangerous, and should not be tolerated by law enforcement. I have absolutely no problem calling in the National Guard and having them roll tanks around town if necessary-- whatever it takes to keep the peace and get rid of the agitators. IMO, we need more aggressive control of these situations, not more misplaced tolerance. For the sake of the law abiding residents and businesses, we cannot allow these social misfits and criminals to get out control. IMO.

 

[bwt42]

I don't know how they do it, but they do it every day. That's all.

I'll help you with that. Most perps don't go for the officers gun. They comply.

 

[K_Z]

Exactly. If Jamar Clark had not "physically wrestled" with the officer/s, and "allegedly" tried to take the officer's weapon, he would be alive, and still facing a basket load of felonies.

And the irony is rich-- first the story is the mean officers threw him to the ground in handcuffs and shot him execution style in the head for doing "nothing". And now posters are criticizing the police because they DIDN'T have him in handcuffs soon enough and assertively enough. Rich. Very rich.

Basically, anything the police did, or didn't do, would be criticized by those who wish for anarchy. Thankfully, most citizens don't want anarchy-- we just want the criminals put away, and we want the social misfits to work a lot harder at being good citizens, and stop blaming everyone else for their own bad behavior.