MN MN - Joshua Guimond, 20, Collegeville, 9 Nov 2002 - #2

Thing is you never know who the person behind the screen on the other line is. Online Dating always has a shady taste to itself, and I think foul play could be involved. To me personally it makes sense that Josh just left the party without saying anything because he was about to DO something unusual, something none of his friends would expect from him and something that he did not wanted to share with anyone. Possible that he met the wrong person.

But I still wouldnt rule out the "accident"-theory entirely. There are just too many lakes and vast acres of forest on the campus and even with all the searching efforts everyone made, it is still possible that his remains are lying there at somewhere...
 
Thing is you never know who the person behind the screen on the other line is. Online Dating always has a shady taste to itself, and I think foul play could be involved. To me personally it makes sense that Josh just left the party without saying anything because he was about to DO something unusual, something none of his friends would expect from him and something that he did not wanted to share with anyone. Possible that he met the wrong person.

But I still wouldnt rule out the "accident"-theory entirely. There are just too many lakes and vast acres of forest on the campus and even with all the searching efforts everyone made, it is still possible that his remains are lying there at somewhere...
Welcome to Ws @ German Fellow! My hope too is that Joshua is somewhere around the campus.
 
According to the Simply Vanished podcast, his Uncle, who was staying in his room on campus during the days of the initial search apparently used the PC for his personal use and has admitted using the “Wash” application. He was pretty vague of what he removed; playing down the possibility that anything he deleted was material to Josh’s disappearance. He probably “ washed” a lot of what he would consider embarrassing including anything of a sexual nature.
Although I personally believe he did do it, Uncle Paul did NOT admit to using the washer program on the Simply Vanished podcast. He admitted to using email and doing internet searches however.
 
Thing is you never know who the person behind the screen on the other line is. Online Dating always has a shady taste to itself, and I think foul play could be involved. To me personally it makes sense that Josh just left the party without saying anything because he was about to DO something unusual, something none of his friends would expect from him and something that he did not wanted to share with anyone. Possible that he met the wrong person.

But I still wouldnt rule out the "accident"-theory entirely. There are just too many lakes and vast acres of forest on the campus and even with all the searching efforts everyone made, it is still possible that his remains are lying there at somewhere...
 

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VIDEO
21 days ago

Unsolved Mysteries - What Happened to Josh?​


''In 2002 Joshua Guimond vanished after a party at St. John's University. Despite massive searches, no Law enforcement has remained baffled by Josh's mysterious disappearance until new evidence was recently discovered on his computer.''
 
True Crime All The Time Podcast just released an episode about Josh's disappearance.
I like those two guys - they are among my favorites, but on this episode they strayed too far into the Smiley Face killers IMO. They could have focused more on the recently revealed online chats.
 
Although it's very sad Josh is still not found I think it's weird to through out this pictures into the public, just like that. This men are now 20 years older to begin with, some of them are maybe not openly gay. What is the source of this pictures? Some of them look to be profile pictures (maybe even fake ones), other's look like cam/screen shots. And to add. The most frustrating thing of putting pictures out there in relation to a case, LE almost never gives a good update of who they identified, f.i. pictures found in the possession of serial killers and they will be circulating and popping up for years and years to come.
I have just watched the Unsolved Mysteries episode and they said that Josh was posing as a woman in the chats. It seemed to imply this was from the dating chats, so these guys may not have been gay, but could have been straight guys thinking they were talking to a woman. I might have got the wrong end of the stick though ? Did anyone else interpret it the same way ?
Edited by me to correct the programme I watched.
 
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I have just watched the Unsolved Mysteries episode and they said that Josh was posing as a woman in the chats. It seemed to imply this was from the dating chats, so these guys may not have been gay, but could have been straight guys thinking they were talking to a woman. I might have got the wrong end of the stick though ? Did anyone else interpret it the same way ?
Edited by me to correct the programme I watched.
I think it's a very interesting line of thinking and totally possible. Never looked at it that way. Maybe somebody found out he wasn't real. Can't help wondering why he did it...posing as a woman?
 
I now watched the Unsolved Mysteries episode about Josh and came here to follow up. The roommate gave me an off-vibe from the start, but and when hearing about the detectives later finding the Yahoo personal discussions from Josh’s computer, it reminded me of him saying in the beginning that the first thing he did when Josh wasn’t home was check his AOL messenger time. I suppose that’s no different than people checking FB Messenger or Instagram to see if someone has been online (aka alive) after not being heard from. I truly hope they have progress soon. I feel as though he must have been in the water and trapped by branches or debris. Such a sad story without closure.
 
I now watched the Unsolved Mysteries episode about Josh and came here to follow up. The roommate gave me an off-vibe from the start, but and when hearing about the detectives later finding the Yahoo personal discussions from Josh’s computer, it reminded me of him saying in the beginning that the first thing he did when Josh wasn’t home was check his AOL messenger time. I suppose that’s no different than people checking FB Messenger or Instagram to see if someone has been online (aka alive) after not being heard from. I truly hope they have progress soon. I feel as though he must have been in the water and trapped by branches or debris. Such a sad story without closure.
I can understand why some people might think the roommate seemed suspicious, based on the Unsolved Mysteries episode. I graduated from HS with him, and we had many classes together over the years. He was a good guy - very studious and quite harmless. I'd be absolutely shocked if he had anything to do with his friend's disappearance. I think he was being completely honest on the show. This case sure is puzzling.
 
Had a thought on this whole situation after watching the UM episode.
Left with his friends to go to the party, but after walking just a short bit had to run back because he forgot beer... something like that.
Combine with music was played on his computer between 12:00 and 1:00 AM if I remember right.
Could it have been that he had arranged to meet up with someone in his room but didn't want them to wait around in the cold if he was later coming back to his dorm.
So, faked forgetting his beer and used that as an opportunity to leave the door somewhat open for the possible guest.?
He gets some time alone with the person then who knows what happens.
Point is, knowing now that music was played on his computer at that time is a very interesting piece of the puzzle.
 
Watching Unsolved Mysteries there were a few things that stood out to me. He went to a poker party, playing poker. Steps from the table in the mids of the game and nobody seems to wonder what is taking him so long to come back. The couple who allegedly saw him. Sightings are always doubtful. What if they saw not him, but the perpetrator? The strange earlier sightings of a possible student leaving a car, car more often seen. A possible connection to the pictures found on his computer? Could this have been Joshua, dating people, earning some money on the site? The roommate; for now I don't believe he has something to do with Joshua missing but what if, what could be the motive?
 
Watching Unsolved Mysteries there were a few things that stood out to me. He went to a poker party, playing poker. Steps from the table in the mids of the game and nobody seems to wonder what is taking him so long to come back. The couple who allegedly saw him. Sightings are always doubtful. What if they saw not him, but the perpetrator? The strange earlier sightings of a possible student leaving a car, car more often seen. A possible connection to the pictures found on his computer? Could this have been Joshua, dating people, earning some money on the site? The roommate; for now I don't believe he has something to do with Joshua missing but what if, what could be the motive?
As a poker player, I've also pondered this.

Do we know if he was actually playing poker? Or possibly just socializing with others who were there but not playing? His wallet was reportedly found in his room. Maybe just came with a small amount of money in his pocket. Most poker games involve some money to buy into the game though. In my experience, people don't usually play just for fun, because there's no reason to take the game seriously and nothing to really play for. There are also different styles or structures.

Tournament style - everyone pays the buy-in, starts with the same amount of tournament chips, and the game goes until the winner has all the chips on the table. You play until all your chips are gone. The winner gets most of the buy-in $, and 2nd/3rd place maybe make a small profit or get their money back. There is no possible way that other players wouldn't notice if he left in the middle of a poker tournament while he still had chips, and didn't return. In this scenario other players still at the table would've had to deal with putting his chips into the pot whenever it was his obligation, until they were all gone. People can step away, but their chips stay on the table and they'd continue to pay the blinds/antes as the game continues. Sometimes people are allowed to re-buy into a tournament if they lose all their chips right away. But a tournament goes until the end. There's no 'leaving early' unless you don't mind just forfeiting your buy-in. Sometimes tournaments can take several hours. Usually short breaks are taken every hour or so for players still in the game.

Cash game - people can buy in for whatever amount they feel like, poker chips have actual $ value, and people can cash out and/or leave whenever they want. Not unusual for people to buy-in or cash out at different times during a session, or sit out for a while. In this scenario you'd still think people would've noticed that he'd left and not come back if he was still in the game, because his chips (with cash value) would've been left untouched at the table where he was sitting whenever the session was over. Or did he cash out his chips after winning or losing some amount, and then he left?

I'd expect these were not big dollar games - like $10 or $20 per person maybe. Clearly not enough to be a reasonable motive for his disappearance. Did he bust out of a tournament or lose all of the money that he came with in a cash game, and possibly intended to go get more money? It's just puzzling that he wouldn't have announced his intentions to anyone when he left, no matter what it was that was going on. But especially if he was still playing in an active poker game at the time. Also odd that he would've gone to a poker party at all intending to play, and then only stay for a short period of time. I've always wondered if there was any possible useful information that could be found based on what his situation in the poker game was when he left.
 
Although I personally believe he did do it, Uncle Paul did NOT admit to using the washer program on the Simply Vanished podcast. He admitted to using email and doing internet searches however.

I think I can prove it wasn't Uncle Paul who used the washer software.

I'm going to bring this thread back and I believe we can solve the washer software debate for good. Then we can move on to trying to figure out the other aspects of this incredibly complex case.

I believe the Washer Software is solved and the police know it is, but are playing dumb. I think a good place to start is with Josh Newville’s podcast where Josh Newville was in contact with an unnamed "room mate". Initially I thought this was Nick, but now I believe it was Adam McDonald based on evidence I have seen. Also, the fact that washing software was used to remove some web history seems to be known about by all of the remaining “friends” who seem to be in damage-limitation mode - the tight-lipped Katie and Nick on the Netflix episode show they absolutely know much more than they're willing to admit.

~~~~~~~~

Transcript from Josh Newville podcast:

Josh Newville: And that roommate has denied ever touching Josh's computer. Is that correct?

Justin Tholl: That is correct.

Josh Newville: And their explanation is that they gave the username and password to someone else who was using Josh's computer in the days following his disappearance, right?

~~~~~~~

Paul Guimond (Josh's uncle), did admit he did searches for Josh and logged into his own webmail account. He denied installing washer software and said him nor Brian were savvy enough. I fully believed that. But it begged the question – who was it?

Why Wash Internet History?

Josh's friends had a narcotics business going on. They also had a fake driving license ID “business” too. It’s very likely that this is what they were hiding from police. They had “careers to protect”, as the police say in the Netflix episode. This is why they would want to delete their internet history.

Adam McDonald's Account - "abmcdonald"

The hard drive was passed to a local Fox News station who had a digital forensics investigator take a look at Josh’s hard drive. :
(attached screenshot of the login script that shows Adam's account)

I studied the stills from the video and clearly see an account called: “abmcdonald” which belongs to Adam McDonald (Josh’s roommate). This is without any reasonable doubt the roommate that is discussed in the Josh Newville podcast.

Alex Jude's Confession - (Letter sent to Mike Hatch, State Attorney General from Jim Rothstein)

We can corroborate this with the following is taken from a letter addressed to Mike Hatch, State Attorney General, sent by the private investigator that Brian hired, Jim Rothstein:

March 10, 2004 at Kays Kitchen in St. Joseph Mn., the following students and friends of Josh, Greg Worden, Alex Jude, Nate Slinkard, Katie Benson(Josh girl friend) and one other female, came to confront Brian Guimond. I (Jim Rothstein) was with Brian. During this confrontation (meeting) they became very subdued when they were informed that we had cracked Josh computer (see item c) and found the phony drivers license operation. Jude stated "we erased all that information". When questioned about the narcotics business they had going on, they had nothing to say. It is apparent that they knew what i was talking about.

Alex Jude stated “we erased all that information”. This is publicly available information. The fact the police suggest they know little about it is embarrassing and stinks of a lie.

Further Evidence It Was Adam

KMSP found that a student of St John’s University named Adam McDonald logged on to Josh’s computer from 11:48 pm on 11/11/02 until 12:40 am on 11/12/02. Josh went missing around 11 pm on 11/09/02. Adam did a search and went to a internet washer website which allows you to remove any websites that were accessed on the computer. It is available in stealth mode. KMSP tried to interview Adam for the story, but he declined.

My Own Suspicions

After watching the Netflix show over and over and over, I began to take note of what Nick said. Nick told Unsolved Mysteries (34 mins) into the episode on Netflix: “I was careful not to do anything on his computer” - “it stuck me as something that may be significant”.

You don't exactly have to do any mental gymnastics to read into what Nick is saying. HE was careful not to do anything on his computer...but someone else did it (Adam). Nick is saying that he knew that computer was significant. I am 100% convinced at this point that the roommates (including Katie) all knew that Adam was going to try and erase the fake driving license/narcotics evidence from the computer.

What rouses my suspicions amongst all of these "friends" of Josh, is that they've all been willing to keep it secret. Nick refused a polygraph and Adam declined to talk to KMSP.

Conclusion

I consider this part of the case closed. TL;DR Adam McDonald searched for wipe software and downloaded the wipe software, (likely along with the compression software and inserted the USB) - the rest of Josh's friends knew he wiped the internet history - at least, Alex Jude definitely did - and he did so to try and hide the illegal narcotics and the phony driving license businesses they had going on (it doesn't look good for law students or any students to have illegal businesses). You have to remember, members of the CSB/SJU Mock Trial team included co-captains, junior Nick Hydukovich and sophomore Joshua Guimond. Katie Benson was the timekeeper (Source). These people had lofty career aspirations and wanted to protect it - and thought they did by clearing internet history) but weren't savvy enough to delete all traces, as Alex Jude's statement suggests.

Where Next?

I'll have a think and go from here.
 

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Following on from my previous post above, back in January of 2003, a former FBI profiler released the following: The Likely Profile of Joshua Guimond’s Abductor | BehindThePineCurtain.com

I read it 1000x over. And I felt like it was too specific and led you down the path of the monks - specifically Wollmering; I think this discounts other possibilities. I'm not a trained profiler, but I am very much aware of profiling and think it can be useful. According to some sources, profiling can be 60-80% accurate.

I didn't like the focus on the offender being older, a lone person or the sexual motive. I thought it was too specific. So, I decided to change "he" for "they" - I am going to make an assumption that there wasn't just one person involved in Josh's disappearance - it's too messy. Too complex. Too unusual to be the work of one person (in my opinion). Below, is my reworked profile - (all I have done, is change he for they in places, and removed the older part / sexual motive part). I feel like this has left me with an incredible profile, which I will discuss at the bottom of this post.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here's what we're left with:

Those responsible for Joshua Guimond’s disappearance, if foul play is involved, would have the following personal characteristics: above average intelligence; socially competent, with good interpersonal skills; likely to be employed in a skilled occupation; a childhood history of inconsistent discipline; a reliable means of transportation, most likely a late-model car in good condition; and a precipitating situational stress prior to the victim’s disappearance. They would be very familiar with the college campus from which the victim disappeared; it would be part of their territory, their comfort zone. They likely would be familiar with the schedules of campus buses and security officers and would know whether the campus has surveillance cameras and where they are located.

The offenders would have conducted extensive pre-surveillance of campus activity around midnight on weekends, which suggests they easily blend in and do not arouse the suspicions of students or security officers when out and about late at night on campus. They would be comfortable in outdoor locations.

The offenders would be highly skilled in presenting the image of a loving and sincere individual and adept at charming others and gaining their confidence and trust. However, beneath this veneer of civility and trustworthiness, they would be selfish, cunning, manipulative, and driven by a need for power, domination, and control.

The decision maker of the group would be a fussy, meticulous, impeccably groomed individual preoccupied with details, lists, organization, and schedules. He would act kindly toward those who submit to his authority but cold, critical, or vindictive toward those who do not. He would have few if any genuine, reciprocal, give-and-take friendships.

After the victim’s disappearance, the offenders would have closely followed the investigation in the news media; likely increased their alcohol consumption, showed signs of stress, and/or experienced weight loss; and may have changed jobs or left the area until the dust settled enough for them to feel it was safe enough to return.

When they are finally apprehended, many will be shocked, asserting that this was the last person(s) accountable for the disappearance.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I believe this has left me with a much wider scope, but has still allowed for a specific person/bunch of people.

I will post up my theory within the next few days. I honestly believe that I am getting very, very close with this one.
 
Following on from my previous post above, back in January of 2003, a former FBI profiler released the following: The Likely Profile of Joshua Guimond’s Abductor | BehindThePineCurtain.com

I read it 1000x over. And I felt like it was too specific and led you down the path of the monks - specifically Wollmering; I think this discounts other possibilities. I'm not a trained profiler, but I am very much aware of profiling and think it can be useful. According to some sources, profiling can be 60-80% accurate.

I didn't like the focus on the offender being older, a lone person or the sexual motive. I thought it was too specific. So, I decided to change "he" for "they" - I am going to make an assumption that there wasn't just one person involved in Josh's disappearance - it's too messy. Too complex. Too unusual to be the work of one person (in my opinion). Below, is my reworked profile - (all I have done, is change he for they in places, and removed the older part / sexual motive part). I feel like this has left me with an incredible profile, which I will discuss at the bottom of this post.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here's what we're left with:

Those responsible for Joshua Guimond’s disappearance, if foul play is involved, would have the following personal characteristics: above average intelligence; socially competent, with good interpersonal skills; likely to be employed in a skilled occupation; a childhood history of inconsistent discipline; a reliable means of transportation, most likely a late-model car in good condition; and a precipitating situational stress prior to the victim’s disappearance. They would be very familiar with the college campus from which the victim disappeared; it would be part of their territory, their comfort zone. They likely would be familiar with the schedules of campus buses and security officers and would know whether the campus has surveillance cameras and where they are located.

The offenders would have conducted extensive pre-surveillance of campus activity around midnight on weekends, which suggests they easily blend in and do not arouse the suspicions of students or security officers when out and about late at night on campus. They would be comfortable in outdoor locations.

The offenders would be highly skilled in presenting the image of a loving and sincere individual and adept at charming others and gaining their confidence and trust. However, beneath this veneer of civility and trustworthiness, they would be selfish, cunning, manipulative, and driven by a need for power, domination, and control.

The decision maker of the group would be a fussy, meticulous, impeccably groomed individual preoccupied with details, lists, organization, and schedules. He would act kindly toward those who submit to his authority but cold, critical, or vindictive toward those who do not. He would have few if any genuine, reciprocal, give-and-take friendships.

After the victim’s disappearance, the offenders would have closely followed the investigation in the news media; likely increased their alcohol consumption, showed signs of stress, and/or experienced weight loss; and may have changed jobs or left the area until the dust settled enough for them to feel it was safe enough to return.

When they are finally apprehended, many will be shocked, asserting that this was the last person(s) accountable for the disappearance.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I believe this has left me with a much wider scope, but has still allowed for a specific person/bunch of people.

I will post up my theory within the next few days. I honestly believe that I am getting very, very close with this one.
Thank you! Very interesting. Let's say there was an abductor/abductors. Now I wonder "why Joshua?" What made Joshua stand out to the abductor(s)? Why was he the right victim? Or was this a crime of opportunity? The abductor(s) looking out for just any student they could lay their hands on?
 
And another question about the monks. Is/was there anyone among them who abused/manipulated young man in the university age group to have sex? (Sorry, if this is somewhere in the thread) They have abused minors, children (may they rot in hell) and most likely they have a sexual preference for younger children (and they are a far more "easy target" for perverts), but to me that isn't 1 and 1 = 2, meaning abusing children does not automatically mean targeting older young men.
 

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